Hey folks,
So here is my tale of woe. One of the porch posts on my two year-old-house has developed a soft spot at the base. Appears to be rotting. Here are the basics. BTW, built the place myself so I’m stuck with the call back.
Its a turned column from H B & G, yellow pine. Its only two years old. Its installed on a Simpson post base so its off the slab by an inch. I primed and painted the whole underside prior to installation.
Area of damage is about 2 inches square. Anyone had any luck with the epoxy style fillers? If so, which brand. I could just change it out but at $125 for a new one and the labor of pulling off the handrails and boatload of gingerboard trim, I’d rather not.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Mike
Replies
Mike,
I don't like your numbers.
2 years old, 1" elevation, primed on top of that? I think it might be something else. Did you poke with an awl? Did you get the old chisel out and scrape off the finish and maybe the top few layers of wood? Maybe it's a knot that is getting loose, maybe it's insect damage, maybe...
I'm suspicious.
Jon Blakemore
The Minwax 2-part wood filler ("high performance") isn't too bad. Not epoxy, but polyester or acrylic. For non-structural repair, I've had good luck cleaning out back to solid wood, soaking it with their "wood hardener" (basically a penetrating lacquer) and filling with the filler after the hardner is dry. You may have a had a crack or something that let water migrate into the post. Fix that first if you can find it. I also drive a couple screws into the wood with the heads below the surface to give the filler something better to bite on.
that type of repair we would do with epoxy and micro-balloons.. probably west system
it may be indicative of more rot to come.. are your columns vented from bottom to top ?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
Are you trying to start another flame war on venting columns ?On a hill by the harbour
This is a common problem with hollow wood columns that are not vented through. condensation on the inside - mostly att top - runs down to bottom amd promotes rot. But with this suspended off the floor and backprimed, it doesn't seem like it would happen that quick. I would definitely want to be discovering the WHY of how this came about.
I normally use the Minwax system just because it is available locally. It is easy to work for fill in on vertical surfaces.
But for this one, I might be tempted to use the GIT-ROT epoxy for harderer instead of the minwax wood hardener. Any of them would probably do the job.
There are times that the manufacturers send out columns made with bad wood . I had a couple of heart redwood with black punk rot hidden in the wood from Hartman and Sanders
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I have used both GitRot and the West System. I am tooled up for West. If you go that way, do spend for the metering pumps that screw into the cans. One stroke of each and you have properly metered mix. You can mix with micro ballons or milled fibers, or good saw dust.
Got an epoxy system from Depot that was two cans of paste. No way to mix this with any degree of accuracy. That deck has 60# of hydraulic cement patching in it. Best use a diamond blade near it.
Epoxy, unlike polyester resin, must be precisely mixed. I have an air intake on the boat that has not really set in 30 years. I have lost hope that it will.
ToolBear
What kind of exposure does this post have? Does water fall off the roof and splash up on it? Can it get wet from the top?
If you're just repairing this small area, I agree the Minwax two-part wood filler might be a good choice. It's easy to mix a small batch, it sets up in about 1/2 hour or less and sands nicely to any shape you want, and it paints well.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
Guys,
Thanks for your replies. Jon, I agree it is kind of premature to have rot but it is indeed there as I did exactly what you mentioned and poked it with an awl.
They are those laminated columns where they glue up a bunch of small stock and then turn them so I'm guessing one of the glue joints failed and thats how the moisture got in it. In addition Mojoman you are correct that it does get wet almost daily or at least every few days as its adjacent to the flower bed and DW probably gets some water on it while spraying the flowers (OK, I do too as I get a little crazy with the hose!)
So sounds like the Minwax system might be worth trying. Is that available at any of the Big Boxes? I honestly have never seen it which is surprising as I spend quite a bit of time in the aisle where the Minwax products are looking at finishing items.
Thanks again for your input.
Mike
At HD you may find the MinWax product either in the MinWax line aisle, or the section reserved for glues and epoxies.
Excavate all the rot that you can; I use a rotary rasp in an in-line grinder, but a dremel tool would work as well, though may be slower. Undercut the rot and wood some for better bite.
The MinWax should do fine (I use it to reconstruct rotted sills and have had no problem,) if it's a round column, which it sounds as though it is, the epoxy may sag after trowling it in. Might think about using some duct tape and wax paper to act as a dam after applying the epoxy. That would keep the stuff in place until it cures and make sanding that much easier. (Wax paper over the epoxy, duct tape wrapped around the whole mess to keep the stuff in place.)
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Some of the fast growth softwoods people sell for exterior use can rot very easily. I've seen properly painted and primed sills and casing rot in a year or two. The minwax filler comes in a metal can with a plastic mixing bowl on top. They sell it at all the big box stores around here. Basically Bondo except the filler is wood dust instead of talc. Cheaper than epoxy and easier to mix. Put in less hardener than they say unless the temperature is cold or the patch is very small. It will harden in under 5 minutes if you put in too much. It trims very nice with a sharp chisel if you catch it before it fully cures. After that, its harder than wood.
Be sure to buy the minwax Wood Hardener too. You'll need a disposable bruch
Actually what I often do in this situation is to drill a buinch of down slanting holes about 1/8" and use a syringe to such the stuff up out of the can and inject it..
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge
FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where
Excellence is its own reward!
I was gona suggest your idea, but instead of minwax he should use a liquid consolident to 'harden up' the rotten wood first. I have used Abatron epoxy kits with great sucsess.
Check out the Abatron website for wood restoration materials. They're helpful, make great stuff and you can buy direct from them online.
Did you see this article?
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00133.asp
Excellent. Thanks
I must've missed that in print?
Mike
It was from 1997, though it got rotated up to being posted online recently.
Ah-ha. Then its in one of the five or six binders on my shelf at home. Yet another reason I should break down and buy the CD...
Mike
Maybe we could use a thread on this, but...How about that CD? Has anyone used it? Is most of the good stuff in there? Were you able to clean out about 2' of shelf space?
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
Be interesting to hear the reply to your question on the CD. I don't have it, but have considered getting it. What has prevented me, however, is that the advertisements make it sound like a greatest hits album. I get the JLC CD(s) update every year because it (appears) to have everything on them. If I'm gonna shuck out that much coin, I'd like the ensemble, not just the coat and pants.
Interesting enough, I still subscribe to JLC mag even though I update the CDs. I prefer to read the mags, but search using the computer. And when I find an article I need on the disc, I print it out, or find the magazine. There's just something comfortable about reading from a page. My kids most likely won't have that problem, though.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
i have the cd, as a contributer, they sent me one gratis
its not bad, looking up an article on a particular subject is not easy although its divided into usable sections by subject
not all articles were included due to space i guess
reading the articles is difficult, they are in pdf? format, but printing them is easy using acrobat reader
frankly i use the online feature much more than the cd
it would be great to have every article from every issue on line but its a big job im sure, they would all have to be scanned incaulking is not a piece of trim
Thanks, Steve. I think I'll hold off on the CD for another generation.
Al
I havent read all the posts , but lets look at it this way :
The post isnt going to be there much longer, so why fix it ?
Might be time for a different avenue. Ive got several houses Ive bought that have the same thing and Im changing to having Red Cedar posts turned. Im thinking it would be a viable business to turn treated and cedar .
Tim Mooney
Hi Tim,
I'm not sure I follow "The post isnt going to be there much longer, so why fix it ?"
Elaborate?
Mike
Mike,
Part of your fix should include some Impel rods for all the post.
http://www.sashco.com/products/impel.shtml
KK
Well, Ive worked on several of my own and Ive lost them . Ive got a bunch on rentals . They arent yellow pine either , at least I havent seen any . Soft wood on all Ive worked on. You end up losing them any way . Think about it . You gonna work on it and gain 2 more years ? Would you buy something you knew you had to work on all the time ? You can replace them with metal and forget it . Why throw away labor on something that wont last ? Would you intentionally put untreated wood on ground contact ? Thats what happened and soft wood to boot. Those posts are a weak link to a house. They should offer red cedar or treated turned posts as I mentioned earliar. I want something that will go 25 years for a solid investment.
Tim Mooney
Edited 2/2/2004 10:35:30 PM ET by Tim Mooney
Tim,
True. I just can't justify changing it out after only two years of service. It would be nice to have had these out of something more durable than softwood originally but PT turned columns looks like hell after about 6 months due to checking and twisting. Composites would have been nice but for the 10' lengths I needed, they were $349. each. Not too bad mind you but I needed 12 of them. URGH!
Sure, I'll be hating this if I end up doing it every few years. Actually, if it does it to another one, I may swap them all for composite in a few years. But for now, hopefully the epoxy rouute will work?
Damn Florida and its rain and rot. BUT it IS 75 here today with bright sunny skies and not one flake of that white stuff to shovel off my driveway...
Mike
Ok I give what is H B&G yellow pine???????Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
T,
H B&G is the company (out of Alabama I believe?) that made the columns.
Mike
I fully understand your position . I would feel cheated after two years also . Ive been getting about five years out of the same post and I havent vented them . While venting sounds good , choosing those posts the first time are a bad idea which the both of us know now . It still remains soft lumber at ground contact that isnt pressure treated or from resistent wood such as cedar.
My position is being called out time after time for the same things . I try to eliminate them . Garbage disposals and cast iron plumbing dont mix well . Im eliminating those disposals . Slowly I will eliminate the wood posts . Its disheartening to work on something you have already fixed once.
Tim Mooney
Tim,
Amen. No garbage disposal in my homes either.
Any kind of painted softwood should be eliminated from outdoors as far as I'm concerned. Thats why I used PVC or cement-based trim on my whole house. The only "organic" component are those damned posts and sure enough if they weren't the first things to fail.
I hate getting burned especially when I knew better. I tried to build the whole place bulletproof and almost did...Almost. Now to address those damn insulated skylights in my shop that fogged up.
Mike