Rotting subfloors under nice Hardwood
Hi all,
First time user here so call me out if I can be directed to a similar thread which im sure exists somewhere on here.
I recently purchased a 1930s Craftsman in Nashville, TN and I am planning on remodeling it on the side. I got it on the cheap knowing it had a lot of issues and of course more and more are coming up.
My main questions are regarding the foundation/crawlspace. The block foundation is in great conditions with minor cracking. However the house came without gutters for whatever reason and excess water is getting into the crawl. On top of that there was termite damage in the past and the majority of the floors are sagging/very squishy. I got a quote for 7k to beef up the floor joists with steel I beams.
I am determined to save the old hardwood. My question is will it be better in the long run to rip it all out and start from fresh Advantek? Its currently over top of 3/4 long leaf yellow pine decking laid on a 45. Im also moving some of the original walls so it will need to be patched pretty excessively. If I could avoid ripping it out I would but I do not want to sacrifice any structural integrity.
On another note I have some roof questions. The roof is stick framed with no collar ties. It only has 2×6 rafter ties. Is adding collar ties necessary? Also the eaves of the roof are just 1x decking that was run long and have since sagged significantly over time. Is there a way of supporting them with minimal framing/sheeting?
Sorry for the wall of text and thanks in advance for the help!
Replies
7k sounds like a very low number to repair structure that is damaged by termites to the extent of feeling it squishy. what is your contractor going to do? sister up and thats it? how much of the floor system has termite damge?
yes absolutly tear out and start from scratch would be my first choice. If you go this route then it will give you a chance to address the crawl space and moisture protection with a lot more working room. in this Tn weather, you want to make sure you have proper moisture protection inder the house. another perk would be being able to give the termite guy good access to treat the underside of the house to avoid future infiltration.
Collar ties should be installed if they are not in place. they only have to be every 4' so its not a big task to retro fit them.
not sure im following you on the eave issue.
Thanks for the fast advice!. So 7k was to install 64' of steel I beams and 13 steel posts. I believe thats it. Doing a walk through with the contractor next week to find out more. The termites were only in the front of the house. probably about 100sf or so. I think im going to tear out all of the flooring and patch the subfloor/sister where needed rather than gut the whole thing. Any thoughts? The crawlspace is an absolute soggy cat [JOBSITE WORD] nightmare and im working on quotes for an encapsulation at the moment rather than doing it myself.
I figured I would go through with the collar ties thanks for the confirmation.
As for the eaves. Most houses I have worked on have fly rafters on the eaves connected to the house with 2x material tieing in into the main structure of the roof. However I was told back in the day they would just run their decking long with no support. Its now sagging about 4" or so on the gables. I cant think of a practical way of fixing the sag without reframing/sheeting. I might be able to come up with some sort of bracket/support from below but im trying to avoid it.
Thanks for the rely
Thanks for the reply mark,
The 7k quote was just to go in and support and level the existing joists with steel I beams. However I got to crawling around and inspecting everything today and Im afraid that the joists are so rotted from water damage that they will just be crushed rather than raise the house. I think im going to get the crawlspace encapsulated and just reframe the whole floor system. A new build next door changed the gradient in the last few years to just run straight into my foundation it seems. As such the whole thing is water damaged.
Ive never reframed an enitre house floor system before. Any advice? Its a 28x36 Craftsman. The crux of it seems like its going to be supporting the roof with strongbacks all the way down to the ground in the crawl while gutting/reframing old load bearing walls as well as getting the new lumber to carry the load on the exterior walls where the existing/rotting true 2x8s are supporting everything.
The eaves are less of an issue right now. However it seems that they just ran 1x decking long on the gable ends and nailed a fly rafter to the decking without tieing it into the main roof framing in any way. As such the whole eave is drooping slightly.
FWIW, around here a neighbor is not permitted to change his gradients in such a way as to affect how water runs off onto your property.
Got A Match?
And some gasoline to go with? That's likely your first step in the remodel.
Your main issue is water- WHERE is it coming from? It's the moisture that makes the place so attractive to termites. There's no sense in just giving the critters more wood to chew on.
Vent it, drain it, pump it ... raise the house ... do what you must to get the wood away from the water.
Encapsulte, ventilate, and condition that crawlspace.
I have experience replacing subfloors, sistering joists, and encapsulating crawlspaces.
My advice would be to do as follows:
1. Remove the subfloor and expose the floor joists. Examine the sill plates and rim joists for termite damage. Repair/replace as needed.
2. With the subfloor removed, you now have the opportunity/headroom to excavate a drain tile system for the inside of your crawlspace. Make a u-shaped sloping channel with a sump pit at the lowest end. Add drain tile wrapped in geotextile fabric. Pour crushed rock around it. Add a sump pump and pump it far away from the house or to your storm drain (if no storm drain exists, the sewer system can be used, but this is not likely legal).
Note: I excavated down until I reached the BOTTOM of the footers, then moved a foot in and dug my drain tile loop. I did this excavation to gain additional space for storage.
3. Remove/close any foundation vents (you are creating a sealed crawlspace). If you can, remove any exterior entry doors and replace with an entryway from another part of the crawlspace.
4. Place a 10-15 mil vapor barrier on the ground and run up the sides of the crawlspace walls. Attach just below the sill plate. I attached mine to the sill plate, which is quite controversial. But, it is easier, and I don't need to worry about termites in my area.
5. Over the sump pit, add a radon fan and vent to the outside. This makes a big difference in how much moisture remains in the block. I was having a musty smell in the room above the crawlspace (even after the encasulation), but which disappeared once I added the radon fan.
6. Sister the floor joists with new lumber. You may need metal shims because the new lumber is not as tall as the old lumber used (must be metal--not wood).
7. Add joist hangers to each doubled up floor joist.
8. Spray foam the sill plate area. Closed cell spray foam is best.
9. Add some recessed lights to the crawlspace and run to a lightswitch near the crawlspace entrance.
10. Consider making wiring and electrical changes now to the room above the crawlspace. What about low-power wiring (cable, ethernet, phone, alarm wires, etc.?). Consider running a series of large holes through each doubled-up floor joists. All of these are a lot easier to do now than when hunched over because the plywood subfloor has been added.
11. I added two inches of sheet insulation to my crawlspace walls, and one inch on the floor and taped the seams You will likely have to leave a termite inspection strip where no insulation exists.
12. If you plan on using the crawlspace for storage, add a plywood subfloor to protect the insulation. Note: Depending on the size of the room above, and the depth of your crawlspace, you may need to temporarily remove one of the doubled-up floor joists in order to get the crawlspace plywood subloor sheets to fit.
11. Add Plytanium plywood to the floor deck. Note: I use 2x screws recommended instead of construction adhesive. If you ever need to pull up the floor, you can't remove it when adhesive has been used.
12. If you are making HVAC changes, run a supply vent to provide conditioned air to the crawlspace.
Some of my steps may be overkill, but I now have a clean, dry storage space, and a rock-solid subfloor for the room above.