Rough-in new bath with cast iron instead of PVC?
As a general remodeling contractor, I frequently have to do some plumbing as part of a bath remodel. This includes simple DWV tie-ins, always in PVC.
My daughter and son-in-law live in the Chicago area, are expecting a baby in June, and want (need) to add a new basement bathroom in their 1920s bungalow. They are hoping to do most of the work themselves, with occasional assistance from me, as they are very short on funds.
Their town (Berwyn IL) will allow nothing but cast iron below grade – no PVC under any circumstances. Several plumbers have given them estimates in the $2000 – $3000 range just to rough in the tub/sink/toilet DWV (no supply lines) and tie into the 6″ clay sewer.
Here’s my question. Would it be feasible for us to attempt the rough-in ourselves using cast iron? I would feel confident working with PVC, but have never worked with cast iron aside from tying into it. Reading up on it, it doesn’t seem too difficult, using no-hub fittings and banded couplings. Anyone have any experience with the stuff?
Replies
This is more of a bump as I have not had to mess with this stuff in a long time (fortunately)
As you state though, its not too difficult (just too heavy) using no hub & the banded couplings.
Cast iron isn't really any harder than PVC, just different.
Check that they allow the hubless underground if it's not a repair.
The hubbed pipe is no big deal. Get the gaskets, lube and rent/borrow the tool to pull them together.
You may need to lead the toilet vertical stub into the 90. Tightening the tiolet flange bolts can pull the pipe out of the gasket.
My wife's Grandparents lived in Berwyn. Couple blocks South of the tracks and just East of Harlem. Lots of great bungalows around there.
If Chicago requires cast iron will they let you or the homeowner do the work?
If you need inspection on the install you will have to find out what code they work by. One of the first things you have to find out is if they allow No-Hub underground or do they require slip-seal.
The answer to your question is yes you can do it yourself if you have the confidence.
All you have to do is make a exact lay-out of what you are hooking up before you cut anything; cast iron is not cheap. You will need to rent a cast iron pipe cutter (they cost a fortune), on the No-Hub bands you should use a torque wrench or something else that you can get 60in. lbs. on the bands, making a tie to a clay pipe requires a Mission or Fernco coupling, that has to be bought when you know the exact size of the clay pipe, size is measured by the i.d.
You shouldn't have a problem, post back if you need more info. luck.
Thanks to all for the replies. Unless they can get a quote under $2000, I'm leaning toward trying it ourselves.
JAlden: We can deal with the hub/spigot joints if need be. Any suggestions where to get the fittings and joint-pulling tool? It's not like they're carried at Home Depot. The house is on S. Harvey at 14th.
Shacko: Berwyn says the H.O. can do it. I imagine the inspections will be merciless. By pipe cutter I assume you mean the chain snap-cutter. I've used it before when splicing in a PVC fitting into c.i. Is it wrong to assume clay pipe sizes are standard? The house is vintage 1920 and the pipe looks about 71/4 inch O.D. I think 7.4 inch is today's standard.
Junkhound: You're joking about Berwyn being a union racket town, but I'm starting to think it's not such a joke. Is there anywhere else in the country that still prohibits romex wiring? Gotta be rigid conduit even inside walls. And where else is the city building inspector an ELECTED position? So, is cutting the clay pipe the same as cutting the cast iron? I'm thinking very clean and square cuts are crucial.
Thanks again everyone.
Cut off wheel on an angle grinder will work on the clay pipe.
Find a local plumbing supply house for the CI, fittings, snap cutter and puller. They will likely rent the tools you need and give you free advice on local codes. If they don't rent the tools, they will know who does. With codes like that, someone is making money on them besides the inspector :)
Fernco coupling are generally allowed underground and outside the building line. Inside you need to switch to Mission bands. Don't forget to support the CI on vertical rises (such as your vent riser tie in). Bed all your underground runs in crushed stone. CI won't sag like pvc when unsupported, but will settle in a trench if not supported by crushed stone,
Get a couple of short nylon slings to handle the longer pieces of large diameter CI as you manuver it into the basement and then the trench. The straps will save your back and keep you from crushing fingers and toes :)
Good luck and be carefull.
Junkhound,
Just braggin', but I've got all the stuff you mentioned, plus a neat old pulley rig for lifting the "tree" of assembled fittings into position. Its upper pulley had a U-shaped piece with a spring-loaded dog to bite into the joist.
My dad quit using it once he got me on the job to lift the tree in place.
Most places around Chicago are conduit coded. They still hark back to the Chicago Fire as their reason for it. I don't see what a soccer club has to do with conduit, but I'm sure it's a good reason.
It's because conduit is superior to cable in every way.
j/k
Except labor cost.
Thanks for the tip. I called Ferguson and they were real nice on the phone. Said they had everything I'd need and were glad to sell retail.
Looks like we'll take a crack at it ourselves. (Oops, I don't want any cracks!)
I just ripped out a bathroom full of cast iron and replaced it with PVC. The 45 year old pipe was rusted out and just fell apart when I was pulling it out. Since the damage was pretty much concentrated around the toilet I suspect the flange was leaking and kept the dirt wet but the pipe was still a goner. I imagine the PVC will still be here for centuries.
BTW I do agree a raceway system is better than romex if you ever think you will change your mind about something but metal is overkill. Smurf tube is a good compromise.