Replies

1. 
   Sphere | Dec 24, 2004 10:06pm | #1

   DP..a 2.25 router is plenty. Y a want what is called a "Panel pilot bit" basically a single flute plunge cutting fixed pilot 1/4" shank bit..they are dirt cheap and will do a lot of openings b4 replacing.

   Yer not after quality of finish cut so a single flute is adequate..I'll see If I can find one of mine and show ya a pic.

    

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

    

    

1. 
   dieselpig | Dec 24, 2004 10:12pm | #2

   Thanks for the good news Sphere.  That's great, cuz that Bosch seems much better suited ergonomically.  Merry Christmas brother.

1. 
   Sphere | Dec 24, 2004 10:17pm | #3

   felix the navy cat to you too man..I did windows that way for quite awhile, it got old to me, went back to a circ saw plunge cut and sawzall..but ya get a new router at least this way. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

    

    

2. 
   dieselpig | Dec 26, 2004 08:48pm | #38

   View Image

   This look like the right animal?

    

1. 
   Sphere | Dec 26, 2004 10:36pm | #39

   dat's d ticket. I can get the cheapies at any local store. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

    

    

1. 
   dieselpig | Dec 26, 2004 10:53pm | #40

   Thanks bro.... just ordered three of 'em along with the 2 1/4HP Bosch D handle router.  That should do the trick... with framing and with the "tool monkey".

2. 
   BossHog | Dec 24, 2004 10:29pm | #4

   The last truss plant I worked at used a 1/2" shank router for door and window openings.

   I thought it worked real slick, and went pretty fast. But I'm thinking the bits didn't last terribly long. But then - They used them pretty heavily.

   Is a book on voyeurism a peeping tome?
3. 
   buildingbill | Dec 24, 2004 11:24pm | #5

   I learned this trick a few years back while I was building a haunted house in Foxboro. I used a PC with a D Handle and every window and door was cut out by using a 1/2" flush cutting bit. You will find as the bit loses its bite to adjust the depth until all of the bit has wornout. This worked well for me and I have been doing it ever since. If you are using OSB all you need to do is take the claw and throw it through the wood then just go to town. Plywood may require the use of a pilot hole.

    

   Merry X-mas

1. 
   FramerT | Dec 25, 2004 01:59am | #6

   Is the benefit of a router not having to chalk lines for window? Faster or slower cutting vs. a circ saw?
   I didn't do it....the buck does NOT stop here.

1. 
   Timuhler | Dec 25, 2004 05:00am | #10

   FramerT,

   It is much faster.  When Dave Frane came out to our job he was just watching us frame and taking pictures.  He watched us use the router and said that all those guys who say it isn't faster don't know what they are talking about. 

   We've tried the circ saw, recip saw and chainsaw and the router is the fastest and cleanest by far.

2. 
   reinvent | Dec 25, 2004 02:39am | #8

   I also think a 1/2" shank should be used. A lot of preasure will be put against the bits for that app. Check this Ammana bit out. RC-1004. They are great (I have one) and once they are dull you just flip the blades. Hit a nail, no problem, just put in a replacement pair.

4. 
   gdavis62 | Dec 25, 2004 02:35am | #7

   Whatever the HP, get one with a D-handle.  It would be best for the job you are intending.

5. 
   Timuhler | Dec 25, 2004 04:58am | #9

   Diesel,

   We had that exact Hitachi router and it was good.  Somehow we killed it.  I don't remember what happened.  I replaced it with the Bosch 3 1/4hp router and I prefer to use Bosch bits.  So far (1 1/2 years) it has been great.  We juse it exclusively for cutting out openings and for arches sometimes.

   Here is a pic from last year where we used it and a trammel to make an arched porch.  Turned out really well.  In the background, you can see a red compressor in the cube van.  That was the Max compressor.  Oh man I wish I still had that :-)

6. 
   gdavis62 | Dec 25, 2004 06:16am | #11

   Looks like Dewalt is still making a D-handle.  I would go for it.  I've never seen a D at a greater HP rating than the 2.25 that this Dewalt has.

   View Image

   Not that you need all the other crap here for whacking window openings.  The plunger and the straightbase are not for you.  Ship 'em to me . . . I'll use them in furniturebuilding situations.  For housework, use the D.

7. 
   RW | Dec 25, 2004 06:42am | #12

   I'll say this without knowing the actual availability, but if you can find a downcut solid carbide spiral that still has the plunge tip on it, I think that would last far longer than an average bit in something as abrasive as OSB. More cost up front, but probably less over the long term, and you won't have splinters sticking out all over your openings.

   "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain

8. 
   caldwellbob | Dec 25, 2004 08:43am | #13

   I got the big Hitachi for hogging out window and door openings. Unfortunately, the only 3-1/4 horse model I could get was a variable speed. The switch went south about 6 weeks after I started using it. While it was being repaired, the Idaho Tool guys loaned me the 1618 Bosch. So now the Hitachi is my router table tool and the Bosch does the hogging. Also, make sure you use 1/2"shank bits. They last a lot longer under pressure. Hows the reach forklift search coming?

9. 
   caldwellbob | Dec 25, 2004 08:45am | #14

   oops, forgot. I wouldn't use a 2-1/4 horse router for framing. I ruined a couple. The job is hard on bits and router motors. Keep the smaller stuff for the finesse work.

1. 
   reinvent | Dec 25, 2004 09:27am | #15

   Bosch does make a D handle router however...I agree with caldwellbob. A 2.25 hp router is a little too small for that kind of work. Go with a 3.25 hp Bosch. The evs maintains speed under load, and has a soft start. And while you at it get a recon and save some $. See attachment

10. 
    BKCBUILDER | Dec 25, 2004 05:44pm | #16

    We use a PC 691 D-handle, and 1/2" or 1/4" self pilot bits. Doesn't matter which one, but the 1/4" are cheaper and last just as long. We don't break many.

    You end up using it for alot more than just windows. We use it for garage doors, corners, pretty much anywhere you want a nice flush cut.

    You will appreciate this more than most, since you're picky like me. It just looks nicer...period. That and when others see you doing it that way they say " hey, that makes a nice neat job, looks better than some snagled tooth just knawed the opening, or hacked it with a sawzall"

    Others will say" mine look just as nice with a saw"....they're only kidding themselves.

    Will it make you more money...probably not, but in the long run will get you more business for your "attention to detail and quality methods"

    Plus, you'll get a straight bit and start doing mortised basement step stringers...another sweet detail that moves you into the upper ranks of quality framing.

    I have a few larger routers, Makita 3HP plunge, a Hitachi....but I use the PC for framing, lighter, less doohickeys too get fussed with...bullitproof. Burns up every 4 years, but can get the 690 motor to fit into the d-handle cheap...<$100.   Keith

11. 
    dIrishInMe | Dec 25, 2004 06:14pm | #17

    First, let me say that I'm not a framer.  I do some occasional framing though and tried the router for window/door openings and found it to be too slow.  Maybe because my router is only ~2 hp, not sure.  I had a nice Freud (sp?) 1/2" shank bit though that was bran new - bought for the purpose - the strait one with the bearing on the end and 2 cutting edges.  It was just a matter of how fast (not) the bit cut through the OSB sheathing.
     
    Let us know how it works out for you.
     

    Matt
1. 
   Sphere | Dec 25, 2004 06:22pm | #18

   ya need a single flute bit..cuts more faster. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

    

    

1. 
   dIrishInMe | Dec 25, 2004 06:38pm | #19

   OK - I'll accept that.  But not sure I understand why.  Seems like 2 cutters would be faster than one... splain it to me...Matt

1. 
   Sphere | Dec 25, 2004 06:46pm | #20

   chip size..think of a saw blade with 120 teeth..nice smooth slow cut, awful for ripping. Now a 16 tooth framing blade..ragged quick cut.Chips flowing reduces heat..heat kills the bit or blade..larger chip carries away more heat per rev with less friction than 2 smaller chips. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

    

    

2. 
   nikkiwood | Dec 25, 2004 06:50pm | #21

   1/2" bit is is cutting twice as much stock as a 1/4" pilot panel bit, so it takes twice as long.Besides, what you were using is called a flush trim bit, and the blades are engineered for nice smooth cuts ( used a lot for stuff like trimming laminate), whereas the single cutter on a pilot panel bit is made for fast, aggressive cuts where a smooth finished edge is less important.

1. 
   Sphere | Dec 25, 2004 06:56pm | #22

   exactly right. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

    

    

3. 
   RW | Dec 25, 2004 07:04pm | #23

   probably has more to do with bit design than flutes, but a single flute is probably designed with a nice wide open gullet for fast (and less clean) cuts. Double and triple flutes are intended to take more but thinner shavings for a cleaner surface, and have the carbide set just proud of the body to prevent you from being able to force it to take more. If you push hard, you just burn."If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain

1. 
   gdavis62 | Dec 25, 2004 09:02pm | #24

   Use a bit like this one.  Carbide tipped.  One flute.  2-1/4 HP, D-handle for one-hand operation, reach and control, and you are in business.  Onsrud Cutter makes good ones.

   View Image

2. 
   Sphere | Dec 25, 2004 09:08pm | #25

   dat's da bit I wuz talking about.. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

    

    

3. 
   dIrishInMe | Dec 26, 2004 02:29am | #28

   OK - I got ya now.  After I wrote that I kept thing of the fine tooth blade analgy, but was still a bit puzzled.   Didn't think about the big chip = more heat disipation thing.

    Matt

4. 
   dinothecarpenter | Dec 26, 2004 02:36am | #29

   On the other hand, (I was told by an expert)

   on the high speed industrial motors, (molders and shapers)  only one knife is doing the cutting. That is why the speed of feeding the materials is the most important thing. 

   YCF.

5. 
   Snort | Dec 26, 2004 03:07am | #30

   I use a PC d-handled 690, 1 3/4 hp, I think. It's always been plenty, plus it's extra portable...go bigger if you're a tough guy<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!

6. 
   dieselpig | Dec 26, 2004 04:03am | #33

   Well, if you're getting by with 1 3/4 HP, then it sounds like I'll be fine with the 2 1/4 HP Bosch D handle.... which is where my heart is really at.  Not a tough guy....just looking to be a smart guy!

7. 
   dieselpig | Dec 26, 2004 03:58am | #31

   Got an online source for those bits?

8. 
   gdavis62 | Dec 26, 2004 04:32am | #36

   Go here http://www.routerbits.com/cgi-routerbits/sr.cgi?1104024627_26496+23

   That is where I clipped the pic, but I would look for the Onsrud equivalent somewhere.

9. 
   Sphere | Dec 26, 2004 04:38pm | #37

   The Vermont American el cheapo work just as well, and last long enogh if ya don't horse em ..buy 6 at a time. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

    

    

4. 
   dinothecarpenter | Dec 25, 2004 09:31pm | #27

   A 40 teeth blade cuts slower than 18 teeth blade. More teeth -more cuts-more resistant from the material. Smaller sections of materials been removed with the 40 teeth blade and the next in line cutting teeth actually shaves the materials.

   Something like that.

   edit.   What Sphere post before and... I don't see it.

   YCF Dino

    

    

    

    

   Edited 12/25/2004 1:46 pm ET by YCFriend

12. 
    dinothecarpenter | Dec 25, 2004 09:19pm | #26

    Another tool?

    How you make the openinings now? With walls flat on the fllor?

    YCF Dino

1. 
   dieselpig | Dec 26, 2004 04:01am | #32

   99% of the time we cut our openings while the walls are laying flat on the deck.  It's not the actual cutting of the window openings eating up the time, its the cutting combined with snapping out cut lines.  I don't let the guys wing it without the lines... looks too sloppy. 

   "Another tool?" you asked.  Yep, why stop now?

1. 
   dieselpig | Dec 26, 2004 04:04am | #34

   As usual, I'm getting just the sort of feedback I was hoping to get from this place.  Thanks again to all for the help, and I hope your holiday was as great as ours was/is!  Merry Christmas gang.

2. 
   dinothecarpenter | Dec 26, 2004 04:14am | #35

   You may want to use the router just to find the exact place for (the other tool)

   With out any lines and without the need to clamp the saw guide and with the blade lower to the right cutting depth...you will fly thru the openings.

   You may need some non-skid foam tape on the antichip edges.

   I think the router may slow you down.

   YCF Dino