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To all, I’m going to purchase a router but I don’t really know all that much about them and what the best brands are. I’d be looking to use it for cabinet making, mostly just as an extra hobby. Would you recommend a table mounted router and what kind of price tag am I looking at. Thank. JGMichel |
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Replies
Click on the title on the Tools Folder and it will just show threads in that section.
And after you look at those about routers then down on the bottom of the page is a place to get for another 50 threads.
That should get you up to speed.
For your purpose I would get a kit that has the rounter, fixed base, and plunge base with a 2 - 2.5 variable speed router.
Boosch has out a very good one. Also PC, Makatia, possibly also Milwalulke, Hiatchi, and Dewallt.
What do you plan to do with your router?
Personally, if I was beginning, I would choose a router with a trigger switch mounted on a handle as opposed to a toggle switch mounted on the body of the router.
Plunge routers are better for table mounting and make the router more versatile.
This would be an excellent choice for a first router. Makita model 3621.
This router only accepts 1/4" router bits.
View Image
Gord
This router only accepts 1/4" router bits.
That makes it a class B router.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
That makes it a class B router.
No, the Makita 3621 is an "A" class router.
How far down your alphabet scale before you hit junk?Gord
Junk is defined by the quality of the tool. Things like collet size determine the grade of the tool. Any router that only accepts 1/4" bits is clearly a entry-level cheap tool.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Any router that only accepts 1/4" bits is clearly a entry-level cheap tool.
Sorry, my porter cable 100 1/4" router is a really good compact machine, not junk at all.
And I have a PC laminate trimmer that only takes 1/4" bits. I guess my point was, for a modern 1-1/2 hp or more router, you really need to have a 1/2" collet.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Gord;
I also like the Makita 3621, fairly light weight and decent control. I have run the gamit from cheap to the so called best.
Recently I picked up a Frued knock off at Princess auto for $77.00 on sale again this week. Capacitor start, 15 amp, 3 collets 1/4" to 1/2", good accessories and I'm blown away! Lots of power and will handle any bit you throw at it. Down side is that it's a little heavy. You got to check this out.
PS I've been routing every thing including a wood axe for the next fest ;)
Rob,
Pleeeeeeease don't fill my truck with those yellow tools.
I have the rotating laser that did a T-Bar job for me. worth every penny of the $55 +tx. Only rotates high speed last time I used it and had to give it a whack once or twice to keep it spinning.
Oh, I have the $64 mini skillsaw looking wet saw but the tube feeding the water doesn't get the blade very wet anymore so I pour water from a bucket with my left hand while controling the cut with my right. I'm soaked. Electrocution? Never happen. Who says I can't multi task?
I don't have that Makita but its the next one on my list. I want something light for hinging doors, small ogees etc. I like the trigger.
I have 3PCs 1 Makita a 3¼hp Hitachi and a PC laminate trimmer.
I've also been looking at the Milwaukee hand grip too. Not so much for the hand grip, (I've used them and didn't find them all that comfortable, too heavy for small bits and you need two hands for larger radius bits anyway) but the micro setting on top of the router is nice.
A router for every bit is my dream.
Gord
some day you'll get serious and go with Bosch...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
That would be M.
Say it isn't so. I like M.
Honestly, I've never tried a Bosch router. Whats so different about them?
I mean, they all go round and round, collets switch from ½ to ¼. Ease of adjustment is nice, but I have enough routers already to dedicate bits on most projects.
If I was to buy another router, it would be another plunge, probably 3hp +
I'd probably get another Hitachi.
Sweet.Gord
the Bosch 1619EVS for the 3+hp...
so you ask....
This is all my own opinion.. I don't rep or vend for anybody here.. The usual disclaimer stuff..
The tools themselves... Flip a coin... Yur choice...
You know I would go with the Bosch though....
I was around when Makita, Hitachi and Ryobie were trying to get a foot hold in the US in the late 70's and early 80's...
They all hit on the mom and pop tool vendors / repair stations 1st and promised them the world... Offered a real bed of roses.. Really went over board to make themselves look good... Serious PR... Great jobber pricing, good warranty program, low unit buying and so on... Suburb returns... and yadda, yadda, yadda....
After they got a bit of a toe hold that began to change... Higher unit costs, larger minimums, restructured warranty pays and poor invoice turn around... As much as 180 days out and discounted when the check showed up with a warning letter with it in regards to charging interest on unpaid balances... When the shoe was on the other foot... D&C...
When they got into HD, Mr. How, Scotties, Lowes and Wickes the mom and pop outfits found themselves over the proverbial barrel... Retail at those stores was lower than the M&P quantity jobber pricing... That bed of roses had an awful lot of thorns in it...
When Makita opened their own repair stations things got worse for mom and dad... The M&P folks couldn't even get repair parts unless they went to the repair stations in person and bought them over the counter... Sometimes for a whopping 10% off... 32$ for a VSCH switch at Makita was $7.50 from Milwaukee.... Same exact switch, same part number....
I think these guys / manufactures did this to force out the M&P's because they weren't "volume†and not spend a dime of their own money doing it... they may even have had an angle to make money doing this... Don't know for sure but it sure looked that way...
Bean counters and numbers.... Bottom line... It's us that matters and screw them... The old time hard line Oriental view of the caste system was very apparent here... No doubt...
These guys weren't too customer friendly either... Screwed over more than a few.. Getting tool issues resolved was another class of "PITA" all in it's self... They left some really good people hanging, out in the cold and monies due - embittered... 20 years latter and they still haven't made good... Reneged to the max...
So in short their integrity sucks... Don't give a damn what their PR lackeys say...
All thru this Bosch, Milwaukee, Elu, Hilti and Matebo stood by their word... Didn't let any one down and were willing to give the benefit of the doubt to it's contractors (M&P"s) and customers... This group of companies said "we are integrity" and proved it over and again... They had a line of excellent products, still do and stood / stand by them..
When I buy tools I look at who is getting my money and for what, together...
And not to mention … what will the tool do for ME… how long it will last and be trouble free at the same time… trouble costs money and causes down time…
Keep in mind that all manufactures of upper end tools have their duds and they have their bench-marks too.
Can we discuss what YOUR money will get ME for tools sometime??? ROAR!!!!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Edited 3/28/2006 10:01 pm by IMERC
this you must remember...
As any woodworker/carpenter/construction guy knows. You can't use "do I need it?" as a criteria for buying a new tool. Whether or not you'll even ever use it is besides the point! For all you confused people out there, I will give you the listed reasons for buying a new tool straight from "The Man Bible" Chapter 35 Section 72 Subsection D Paragraph 23 states:
You simply buy a new tool because:
a) It's there
b) You can
I hope this has cleared up any questions any of you may have for buying new tools, and hopefully relieve some of the guilty feelings you may have about purchasing that new tool with the money you should have spent on a new dishwasher for your wife.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Been a long day, thought I'd check Breaktime before lights out.
Holy......
Nice rant
I'll have to read that over again tomorro
Gord
No rant...
that's the way it happened guy....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I'd like to revive this thread...
I'm looking into getting a new router. First a little history. Started with a Sears 1/4" that I got from my dad. Maybe about 12 years ago I had a not-too-bad accident with it that sent me to the hospital and taught some power took respect... Never used that one again and sold it a yard sale for cheap...
Then got a PC 690 which is what I have now. I'd say I use it maybe only 8 times a year... It's been a good machine but I think I'd like to move up a bit and the arrangement with the PC on/off switch has always irked be a bit. Maybe because of the little accident.
Most all my routing is done on a new home construction job site, so no, I don't have a nice cozy shop with a nice work table with all kind of holding jigs etc., dust collection and good lighting. My shop would most always be a pair of horses set up on semi level ground with a few 2x4s thrown over them and then a piece of plywood tacked on top of those. Or sometimes routing already installed deck railings or whatever.
Spent 1/2 of the today reading up. I'm thinking a ~2.25 HP with variable speed is where I'm headed. I've been using some larger bits and think the added HP and ability to reduce bit speed might help me a bit. The soft start thing sounds attractive too.
At this point I'm leaning toward a Bosch either 1617 or a 1618 with a D-handle.
I guess my question is regarding bases. Fixed, plunge or D-handle???? I've only used fixed based routers - either mine or someone else's. Most of my routing is edge work. Plunge? Well OK - but I'm not entirely sure what I'd use it for... Maybe the plunge option would be a nice one to have though? Fixed base? That would be where I'd spend 95% of my time. What about D-handles? They look pretty convenient to handle... and maybe a bit safer... not having to take my hand off the handle to turn the machine on or off. I have a quickly approaching project where I will need to do some routing on some square columns that are already installed. Seems like a D-handle would be great for that...
Thoughts?
I/we just bought a DeWalt DW 618 kit with all three bases. Haven't even had a chance to use it yet. At HD I found the best price for the whole kit and cabottal. $265 CDN. I hope it lives up to it's good looks! Good luck in your search.
Get one of the combo kits with both the fixed and plunge bases.
Or get just a plunge router, if you want just one.
The Bosch combo kit has gotten pretty good reviews. I think its right around 2 HP.
As far as I'm concerned, the more routers, the better. I'm currently up to 7- 2 trim routers, 2 plunge routers, the big 3-1/4 HP P-C for my router table, the P-C 690, and my first, the P-C 100.
I hate changing bits in the middle of a job LOL
Thanks shep...
Yes - on some railings I reciently did I know I changed bits at least 10 times...
Anyone else? Opinions on the 3 different types of router bases - plunge, fixed, and D-handle for basic routing activities? What is the down side of D-handles?
D-handles may be great......lots of years in, and I've never bought one. Used a few, never saw the need to invest in one.
There are some things you need the plunge for, like mortises....but anything where accuracy is required, I use a fixed base. The kits with one motor and two bases are a great way to start, but eventually, if you're working, you need a bunch more....big, medium, small, in both fixed base and plunge.
I have one old Bosch in my personal shop that is still holding up ok, but I'm not very impressed with any new Bosch stuff (less so with the attitude of Bosch when I notified them that my chopsaw bladeguard had exploded....didn't care). Overall, I trust Porter-Cable, and have run lots and lots of them. They are what I see in the solid surface and production shops.
Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
Unlike some others, I'm going to encourage you to stay away from a router with interchangeable bases. Save up your shekels and buy a plunge router, and a fixed base router.And I'm a pretty casual/occasional router user. One day, the penny just dropped: "I'm switching this base for the last time." Sure, that makes me sound incredibly lazy, but I am. AND once you mount a router in a table, removing the router and switching bases and changing the bit starts to feel like an unbelievable PITA, especially if you just make the switch and realize you should have run more stock on the table. Then you might have no router at all, if you throw it hard enough.
Edited 11/9/2008 12:10 pm ET by Biff_Loman
That's one of the reasons I have seven. <G>
I'm with you guys. Although it's been over a decade since I looked at Taunton's The Workshop Book, a quote sticks in my mind: I think the guy's name was Lewis Judy, and the gist of his quote was, "We don't own a wrench."Obviously, he didn't mean that literally, but if you do the math, it doesn't take too many bit changes to pay for a new router -- most bit changes probably average closer to 10 minutes than to 5, all in all.You lose your rhythm, too, which costs you even more time. And every day has set-up, break-down, and clean-up in it, so every time-saving move you make means that much less set-up and break-down.(4) PC 310s (with 2 extra bases, tilt and offset), a Rockwell 100 (with 2 bases, one a stripped-down router table), a D-handle Rockwell #? (whatever the round-topped step up from a #690 was) a Festo 1000, and that original plunge Makita, and where does that leave me?Hmm. Looks like I’m a little light on the beefy end of the range. Maybe a big plunger would flesh things out nicely. Perhaps a big Triton Router-table unit, too.Anyway, as the email that alerted me to these new posts here said, “Routers (4 new).â€I couldn’t have put it better myself.AitchKay
What's Betterly getting for the PC 310?
That's a good question. I'd like to know. I think their website says call for a quote...Check out their site -- they have some amazing accessories/mods!But I didn't call. With 4 already, I'm not in the market (though I could use a couple more!).AitchKay
I was just thinking about that guy.....he has a router for every bit that he owns....dozens and dozens of routers as I recall.
Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
Yeah, that really made an impression on me!
This may be too "fine woodworking" for you, but some great ideas for router bases can be seen by going here
For a router, you may want to consider this one, from Australia, and widely available here.
View Image
One thing I find handy for a jobsite router is a great big base with knobs on it. Knobs are available from many places, but I get mine from Reid Tool. The base should be lexan or polycarbonate, and 3/8 thick, sized maybe 14 x 22, with one knob near each end at the centerline.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
I've bought some bases from Pat. One of 'em cracked at the screw/mount holes- he must make them out of acrylic rather than polycarbonate.
Yeah, Pat Warner's bases are acrylic.I love acrylic, though, mostly because I can always scrounge it: I've got about a dozen 30"x84" sheets (smoke-colored, unfortunately, but what the hey). It's great stuff for one-off sub-bases.My favorite for really oversize bases is 1/4" aluminum, another material I love to scrounge. Cut it with everyday carbide blades and bits, using a nice, slow feed -- no problem. Top it with Formica, and you've got an excellent, non-deflecting, non-marring sub-base.My old Makita Plunger lives on one of these, about 1'x2', sized to create an extension table for my old Rockwell 9" cast-iron contractor saw. (Now there's a tool! In the old days I thought nothing of carrying that saw all the way up for 3rd-floor attic remodels. But that was the '70s. Now we're in the AUGHTs, or, more accurately, the OUGHT NOT TOs).Hey, I've made special sub-bases out of lauan, too, and they've worked just fine.Whatever it takes, right?AitchKay
Good idea with that link, Gene. Pat Warner is a true Routermeister. Don't try to wade through his website in one sitting, though. It's like Thanksgiving: just browse it until you're stuffed, then walk around the block a few times until there's a bit of room for pie.AitchKay
I started off with one of those old Sears routers too. I still use it every now and then if it has the right bit in it.
The Bosch interchangeable kit is pretty good -- I leave the fixed base attached to a router table and use the plungebase freehand. I also have the Bosch Colt I use when I don't need to hog out a lot of material. Consider getting a refurbished Bosch 2- base kit and the Colt from CPO Bosch Tools for the price you might pay for one big router new.
You will use the Colt way more than you expect.
Billy
Thanks Billy. I already went ahead and ordered the Bosch 2.25 hp EVS plunge/fixed base kit. I felt I needed something soon because I have a project that will require a little more power than I have now and I will be hogging out a fair amount of material. I think the Bosch will be pretty much loaded and expect the routing to take around 4 hrs. Well see if it is up to the task.... I think it will.
I ordered the kit off Amazon for $203 and got the super saver shipping so that is the total price. Then, that same day I saw it at Blowes for $205... Would'a been no waiting. Course I would have had to pay sales tax bringing it up to around $220... I didn't know about CPO Bosch but the prices look the same.
I would like to get a Colt, or similar, but generally my tool purchases are driven by need not want. Also, right now most all of my bits have 1/2" shanks. OTOH part of this upcoming project evolves routing some smallish porch brackets, and it will be difficult for me to hold the pieces and maneuver a big router over the work... ;-) Yea - that's it - maybe I "need it"...
Back to the Bosch 2.25 hp, part of the reason I got that kit is it comes in a carrying case that fits the basics and bits and accessories too. Probably not a concern for these guys who talk about having 6 or 8 or more routers.... I think I can safely assume they don't take their harem on the road to job sites - unless they have 20' tool trailers. I'm still not sure what I will use the plunge base for though...
I'm not sure that even a 20' tool trailer would hold everything I have LOL
Tell me about it! When I lost my shop, and didn't have a new one ready, I bought (2) 20' carhaulers, (1) 24', and a 7x18 to catch the spillover and schlep stuff between the other trailers. Which, of course, were parked in different locations. And the Unisaw and Makita combo jointer-planer went into a barn to slowly rust.Man! Could I have some humous on my PITA?AitchKay
Routers are like fishing boats. Big boats for big water and little boats for ponds. I have 7 or 8 of them (routers). Some are for small work and the big ones go on the router table. The small ones I use for veneer and laminate. Most people just do mid size work and a mid size router from Bosch or Porter Cable will do just fine. I don't own any boats any more.
How far down your alphabet scale before you hit junk?
That'd be MLife is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
and being a Makita makes it a "C-"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Although I don't own one, I think Porter Cable has a very good line of routers & has the most easily accesable selection of accesorys.
I can order replacement parts for my Milwalkee,Bosch & Hitachi routers, but PC stuff is available off the shelf almost everywhere.
I have a few PC 690 routers, they are stout, simple, and reliable tools.
Recently purchased a Milwaukee Body Grip router, long term is yet to be seen, as of now I really like it, nice height adjustment, the body grip feature is great, all around nicely refined.
Another vote for the 690. I have three, they're all more than 10 years old, and they are great tools.
I have the 690 and it is good router.But PC waited way too long to update it.If I was buying today I would get the new series (890?).
I own 7 routers, and the trusty PC 690 gets the most use. It is primitive, but solid.About Fast Eddie's assertion that a router that will only take 1/4" bits is junk, I'll say this: For modern routers in the 1.5 hp range and up, I agree. 1/2" shank bits are so much more stable and robust than their smaller bretheren. I prefer a 1/4" straight bit with a 1/2" shank.That said, my first router was a used Stanley industrial 1.5 hp router. It only took 1/4" bits, but it was one sweet machine. After using it for 15 years I sold it back to the friend who had sold it to me. It still works great. He finally got into woodworking and needed a router. I couldn't let my buddy buy junk at Sears, so I made him a deal.Bill
I'd get a cheap router at Sears and make sure it's a hobby you enjoy before plunking down big bucks on a serious router. My first router cost me $60 and I did quite a few things with it before selling it at a garage sale. I only sold it because my mother-in-law bought me a Porter Cable 690 (a "real" router).
If you insist on a top-notch router, I like my Bosch combo plunge/fixed base kit a lot. Plenty of power and decent dust collection (when connected to a shop vac).
TF
get a cheap router at Sears .... My first router cost me $60
The basic PC 690, without plunge base, is only about twice that much. So why whould you want to waste $60 on an admittedly cheap tool?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
A few things. If you compare routers for power, use amps, not hp. If you are going to table mount look for one that will adjust from above the table. Find out how the routers fit you. If I like a router but the plunge control or switch is torturous for you to use my recommendation is moot.
For cabinetry making a 1/2" collet is a must, as is variable speed for large panel bits.
Freud has a new model that reads well but the usual suspects, Mil. DW, Mak, PC, Hit, all have their proponets and they all have their lemons too.
If you buy one of the established industrial brand names you'll always be able to sell it for a good percentage of what you ppaid for it if your interests or needs change.
Here's a link that will give you an overview for selecting the router that might be best for whatever you have in mind.
It's from Pat Warner, a long time router guru:
http://www.patwarner.com/selecting_router.html
After you read the above, you can decide if this is worth your dollars:
http://www.patwarner.com/rfs.html
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
One thing to consider is that just about any router accessory or homemade jig you see is made to fit a PC 690.
I have one with the plunge kit and find 99% of the time I use the old base. You might want a higher horsepower for raised panels, but a 3hp would be a pain for everday other stuff. I would start with the 690 and add another later.
look seriously at the Bosch 1617EVSPK....
fer attitude latch on to the 1619EVS....
they rule...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
How much does bosch pay you per year?
Whatever it is it aint enough!
you can say that again....
all of nothing is still nothing...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I wish....
like to be one of their test drivers too....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Here is one you might not know of. The Triton, made in Australia, but available in the US from various sources.
3.25 HP, with a bit change feature all routers should have, that of being able to extend its collet up through the base for easy access, it is a highly recommended machine for in-table use. And a table-mounted router is what you want for furniture and cabinet work.
It is a plunger, though, and will do all the things that pushdown units will do, as well as those with fixed bases.
View Image
Let's see, I got a green one ana,a red one anacouple 'a coupl'a blue ones an at least one yaller one oh yah, got a couplel'a kinda black and pot metal lookin things ond oh yah got one real purty shiny one I keep hid just for me. And thats the truth. Jim Devier
I like D-handles a lot. Especially with an oversize base-extension under the handle, which gives you plenty of bearing and good balance for edging work.
Being able to to turn the tool on and of without changing your grip is important, too. So whatever kind of base, look for trigger switches, they're the best.
My first-generation Makita plunge router had a toggle switch and an awkward plunge release/lock lever. I almost never used the plunge feature, and it now lives in a router table.
But my little Festo has a good plunge action, and is perfect for lineboring with the perforated guide rail.
And think about a trim router. They don't take up much space in the truck, and they're ideal for jobsite use, which is often done one-handed, with the other hand holding the work. You can still get the PC 310 from Betterly. It's excellent!
AitchKay
I have a PC with the interchangable bases. But my experience is different than yours as I don't use it for anything but personal use.
Always liked the PC routers, at work and home.
To all, I'm going to purchase a router but I don't really know all that much about them and what the best brands are.
I have Linksys, works great.
hahahaha
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