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Running someone else’s crew

Hooker | Posted in Construction Techniques on May 3, 2005 05:30am

I have been asked by my boss to oversee the framing of a large home that a sub company is about to frame for us.  I’m hourly, theirs is a contract.  From what I understand, I’m there to make some decisions with the designer (from our office) and be of a “quality control” person.  I know I’m up for it knowledge wise, but am still unsure exactly how my role will fit throughout.  These guys are going to get some good free help, so they aren’t complaining.

Anyone done this before or had somebody do this?  If so, what are some guidelines or tips?

Generally, I will see this project through to finish.  Not new for me in that respect, but I’ve never worked alongside a contract crew as an hourly employee before.

Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail

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  1. Frankie | May 03, 2005 06:16am | #1

    What do you do for him now?

    Will you be wearing a toolbelt also?

    Is this an increase in your scope of work or a change in job description?

    Sounds like you will be the project Manager or Site Supervisor.

    Frankie

    The first rule of Fight Club is - you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is - you DO NOT talk about Fight Club. Third rule of Fight Club, someone yells Stop!, goes limp, taps out, the fight is over. Fourth rule, only two guys to a fight. Fifth rule, one fight at a time, fellas. Sixth rule, no shirt, no shoes. Seventh rule, fights will go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and final rule, if this is your first night at Fight Club, you have to fight.

    1. Hooker | May 03, 2005 02:08pm | #2

      Frankie-

      I was hired to be a trim carp.  The company is/was trying to sub all the rough and most siding and keep 4 trimmers and a laborer busy.  So far, I've trimmed only about 160 hours in the last 8 mos.  The rest has been framing and a lot of small remods.

      I will be sporting the tools.  I guess for detail framing and the like.  I have been preparing myself for a game plan, and have yet to figure the most efficient use of me throughout.  I have led frame jobs before, only our own guys on an hourly basis.  My concerns are how the hourly/contract thing will jive.Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail

      1. Frankie | May 03, 2005 02:53pm | #3

        This is the typical way large jobs are run. Some rep is on-site to ensure the continuity of the job - make sure everyone is following the plans; coordinate the various trades so work is sequenced properly, trades don't do work that is redundant or some other way counter-productive.Don't plan on wearing a toolbelt. There won't be enough time, you will be constantly interrupted and you will get frustrated. Mostly though, you will be blurring the line between what you do and what the other trades are contracted to do. In regard to the framing - the framing is subbed out. Don't do ANY of it yourself. Otherwise, you risk setting up a "not my responsibility" or "I thought you were going to do that" scenerio. You also risk a disruption of their framing process which may breed contempt. They are framing full time and you can't because you will be interupted by phone calls, site visits and deliveries.Have a sitdown with your boss to define your role and to adjust your wageaccordingly. Make no mistake about it - you should get a raise with this increase in responsibility - unless you were being overpaid before. FrankieThe first rule of Fight Club is - you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is - you DO NOT talk about Fight Club. Third rule of Fight Club, someone yells Stop!, goes limp, taps out, the fight is over. Fourth rule, only two guys to a fight. Fifth rule, one fight at a time, fellas. Sixth rule, no shirt, no shoes. Seventh rule, fights will go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and final rule, if this is your first night at Fight Club, you have to fight.

        1. Hooker | May 04, 2005 05:12am | #7

          All good points.  I know the sit down is needed for sure.  The boss is one of those always running guys, so talks usually happen on the fly, which is something I don't really care for.  Of the five carps, I'm the new guy and it seems the most "willing" to take on a full project.  The others have always had a luxury of going where they are told, work, go home.  

          I'm afraid the toolbelt will be inevitable, which is most of my concern.  I agree that there needs to be a line of responsibilities drawn.

          unless you were being overpaid before

          Geez, I hope not.  I will admit to an above average wage in my area for my ten years, but for the tasks I've shouldered lately, worth it.Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail

      2. DaneB | May 03, 2005 04:34pm | #4

        One HUGE thing to remember is that YOU must work with the crew boss/supervisor or what ever they want to call him/her.  You are not to be talking to the individual workers themselves.  If you have a problem you go to there boss.  If one of them has a problem or a question about something they go to there boss and he comes to you.

        The only time you should ever talk to the individual crew member is if you see someone doing something that would endanger live or limb and then it is only to put a stop to it long enough to get with there boss.

        It is a tough transition to make if you have spent a lot of time supervising a crew.

        Good luck with it.  Let us know how it all works out.

        DaneI will always be a beginner as I am always learning.

        1. Hooker | May 04, 2005 05:21am | #8

          I hadn't thought about only dealing with the leaders.  I didn't plan on being in charge of their guys, but the last time I worked beside these guys, they helped us on a killer roof.  They were there to help me and one other guy.  We all just worked together in different areas, always someone helping the next guy.  I think it was an emergency case and they were hourly for my boss.

          Something to think about.  Thanks.Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail

  2. User avater
    jonblakemore | May 03, 2005 08:30pm | #5

    How many guys will the framing sub bring to the site? If you've got 10 guys framing then I would agree with Frankie. The most expensive mistake you could make is to strap on your tools.

    If you can keep up with all the administrative functions (your primary purpose) then doing some framing work could be okay. Just make sure that your work doesn't hold them up.

    How big is this house?

     

    Jon Blakemore

    1. brownbagg | May 03, 2005 08:43pm | #6

      Watch out for change order. bu code and only code no extra. extra cost money. " He told me to add it"

    2. Hooker | May 04, 2005 05:29am | #9

      The house is a fairly cut-up 5k ft walkout "ranch"  Nothing real difficult.  Last time I worked with these guys they had either 4 or 5 at a time. 

      I envision letting them do their thing, bang the walls, etc.  I won't stop progress on the straight forwards.  I will, however, know all window/door opening, wall changes, truss layouts, etc so things click along.  I think early framing will be OK, but at sub time for mechanicals, that's were I be most useful.

      Looking forward to it, actually.  I've found with my company, which has a full time drafter/designer and an "interior/detail" designer, a lot of items are detailed late in the game, as they are needed.  Another reason for me, to do the detail framing the subs didn't bid for.Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail

  3. User avater
    JeffBuck | May 04, 2005 06:37am | #10

    just think of yourself as the Lead Carp on the job.

    working belt on till a question pops up ...

    then belt off and decision maker time.

    Bet it ends up an even split.

     

    Like ya said .. let them do the heavy lifting and speed framing ...

    then follow behind doing all the "one man" jobs ... immediate punch list work.

    no big deal.

     

    Jeff

        

  4. MisterT | May 04, 2005 11:18am | #11

    Napalm

     

     

    We always get it right!!!

    the third time....

    "Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"

     

    1. User avater
      IMERC | May 04, 2005 11:35am | #12

      plan "B"

      Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

      WOW!!!   What a Ride!

      Forget the primal scream,  just ROAR!!!

      1. MisterT | May 04, 2005 11:38am | #13

        Hey you stalking me???

        you best watch it!!

        I got 50,000 gallons of Vietnam surplus napalm that I got on e-bay.

        If I pop a cap in your asss its gonna BURN!!! 

         

        We always get it right!!!

        the third time....

        <!----><!---->

        "Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"

         

        1. User avater
          IMERC | May 04, 2005 11:41am | #14

          I got plan "B"...

          Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

          WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          Forget the primal scream,  just ROAR!!!

        2. User avater
          IMERC | May 04, 2005 11:43am | #15

          sure... why not... what else is there to do at this hour...

          besides I can use the entertainment...

          Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

          WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          Forget the primal scream,  just ROAR!!!

          1. MisterT | May 04, 2005 11:49am | #16

            yeah it should be fun watchin me try to get 30 y.o. napalm to light.

            "Damn!! doesn't the army know about gasoline stabilizer!!!" 

             

            We always get it right!!!

            the third time....

            <!----><!---->

            "Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"

             

          2. User avater
            IMERC | May 04, 2005 12:03pm | #17

            stir it with a lit RR flare...

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

            Forget the primal scream,  just ROAR!!!

          3. User avater
            IMERC | May 04, 2005 12:12pm | #18

            I refreshed "unread messages" and this showed up....

            unreal..

            General Discussion -  WHAT SIZE COPPER SUPPLY PIPES FOR SEC... 

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

            Forget the primal scream,  just ROAR!!!

          4. MisterT | May 04, 2005 12:44pm | #19

            is there sumptin I shood reed in that thread?? 

             

            We always get it right!!!

            the third time....

            <!----><!---->

            "Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"

             

          5. User avater
            IMERC | May 04, 2005 12:46pm | #20

            Ive been blaming rez fer playing that thread...

            I think it is really you...

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

            Forget the primal scream,  just ROAR!!!

          6. User avater
            IMERC | May 04, 2005 12:47pm | #21

            if we were to use the search function we could never find it...

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

            Forget the primal scream,  just ROAR!!!

          7. MisterT | May 04, 2005 12:50pm | #22

            Not true! I just pasted the titlt into the advanced search and got it!!

            Of course my computster iis tied in with The Crays at NSA , FBI and CIA.

            and Tauntons  386Cray too. 

             

            We always get it right!!!

            the third time....

            <!----><!---->

            "Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"

             

          8. User avater
            IMERC | May 04, 2005 01:18pm | #24

            that is some valuble info...

            we now know the home port of those black helos...

             

             

            plan "B" to rescue....

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

            Forget the primal scream,  just ROAR!!!

          9. MisterT | May 04, 2005 01:00pm | #23

            Well last night I found out on of the other carps at work cut his finner on the TS!!

            :(

            15 stitches

            Board kicked back, hit him in the knee, knocked him off balance and his hand came down on the blade!!

            Talk about a freak accident!!

            2 weeks ago another guy was carrying a toilet, it was cracked and broke in his hand, 12 stitches.

            So now I'm the only lead in one piece!!!

              

             

            We always get it right!!!

            the third time....

            <!----><!---->

            "Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"

             

          10. User avater
            IMERC | May 04, 2005 01:31pm | #25

            that's good news...

            it's tuff having to go to work in two trips...

            yesterday was the OK corrall around here... bust yur butt and in a heart beat everything retros... full scale winter isn't happening either... all the snow and ice is really hampering just getting from here to there or back again...

            well at least I got a dimmer view of things, a ripping headache and insomnia... getting to the point of why bother... and an attitude...

            so at 9ish it's engineer time and all that happy hoorah.... Friday it's back to county services center... I just love that place...

            I wonder why it's called services.. there's nothing there that resembles that...

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

            Forget the primal scream,  just ROAR!!!

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