Hi,
DIYer question on stairs and codes and aesthetics…oh my.
Here are the stairs:
http://home.wideopenwest.com/~firepower001/attic_renovation/stairs1.jpg
http://home.wideopenwest.com/~firepower001/attic_renovation/stairs2.jpg
These stairs are going to be carpeted. My decorator says the stairs would look better without the nosing on the tread, ie a ‘waterfall’ as she calls it. I agree.
So can I cut off the nosing? Currently the depth of the steps is 10 3/8″ give or take an 1/8″. The nose of the treads sticks out 1 1/4″. So removing the nosing takes the depth down to 9″ minimum. I suspect stair depth codes are fairly standard (ie, my local inspector won’t have some non-standard minimum) but my handy “house framing” reference book says a stair should have minimum 3/4″ nosing. Of course I’ll confirm the codes before doing anything, but I’m curious about if it might be a bad idea to remove the nosing for some other reason. What do you think?
Replies
BB
I cant find where I put the stair code link but I thought the min. stair tread was 10".
I'm sure someone else will come in to either verify or reject my guess.
Doug
Minimum stair run is 9" per treads. That is what you have now because the tread on top of it covers 1 1/4 of the 10 1/4. Cut off the nosing on every tread does not change the run of the stairs and the size to the tread still meets code. Unfortunately for you, code states that you must have a nosing of at least 1 1/4".
Also, from looking at your pictures I would guess that the risers are in a plowed grove under each tread, once you cut back to the riser you may have a problem with the staircase losing some of its integrity.
Bear
Cutting off the nosing would be a code violation. You will need to check with you local code official for sure but I'll lay heavy money on your not being able to cut the nosings off.
You might want to checkout this document (and give a copy of it to your decorator). It's the Visual Interpretation Of The International Residential Code-2000 Stair Building Code it doesn't apply everywhere but it's a good standard and it's a great document in terms of it "understandability".
I also disagree strongly with the decorators assessment that cutting off the nosing will create a "waterfall" look. They are going to be carpeted correct? I don't think it would even be close to looking link a waterfall. Think about it, with a waterfall the top edge of the stair (leading edge of the tread) would be rounded over. The code says the maximum for the radius is 9/16" and that's what you should shoot for. When water goes over a water fall it doesn't travel level then all of a sudden turn and drop 90°. It gradually rolls over the edge of the falls. I think cutting off the nosing would give your stairs the "stacked boxed" look, not a waterfall. What get's you the waterfall look (and we have gotten that look on at least one stair we did that come immediately to mind) is the color, direction of the pile, and the pattern in the carpeting you are installing.
View Image
"You might want to checkout this document (and give a copy of it to your decorator). It's the Visual Interpretation Of The International Residential Code-2000 Stair Building Code it doesn't apply everywhere but it's a good standard and it's a great document in terms of it "understandability"."
I've never seen that link before - the one thing it doesn't show, and I think it's still allowed in the international building code is that you can make the whole riser at a slight angle. Effectively the whole riser is the nosing. You couldn't just remove the nosing here, but you might be able to insert a wedge piece under the nosing. See the attached sketch.
I think that's the right approach, given these will be carpeted stairs. The problem with carpeted stairs over standard nosing is that soon enough, the gap behind the carpet (as it runs up the riser) will be kicked in and the carpet will need to be re-attached. Unless, brass rods or similar are used.
In some ways it's a matter of choice, the look that is. Sounds a bit 'institutional'. Personally I'd prefer to see the carpet rolled over the nosing, and straight up the rise. Classier than right-angles flopping down the stair. Go one better and have a carpet narrower than the overall stairwidth, and instal brass stair rods to keep the carpet up (finish the exposed portions with a nice veneer). Oops, I've gone overboard, as usual.
Cheers
If you end up doing it(I wouldn't), pack out the risers, rather than destroying the stair.
how about if you infill under the tread lip with a taper to the tread below less muss and fuss to
Daniel
Jerrald, thanks for that link. Exactly the kind of info I was looking for. As for the "waterfall" look, I wasn't under the impression that it would literally look like a waterfall. I'm just looking for a cleaner look to the stairs.
Previously the old carpet wrapped around the nosing and immediately returned to the riser. I really didn't like that look. I like the idea of tapering from the bottom of the nosing back to the riser. Take a look at these drawings I scratched out:
View Image
I prefer #3 but don't know how I could cut anything like that on my small tablesaw. Any ideas?
One other reason I wanted to do something with the nosings is because of the door at the bottom of the stairs:
View Image
View Image
If I take off that nosing, I can end the carpet on the inside of the door and get a clearer look from the hallway. Yes, I'll probably have to scrap the trim but it will look so much better.
Thanks for all your replies and expertise.
try using 6'' cedar or pine clapboard for you problem, I would NOT cut the tread. It looks fine in the last pic. Jim Z
"If I take off that nosing, I can end the carpet on the inside of the door and get a clearer look from the hallway."Don't carpet that first step. Refinish the first step. That preserves the clean look with the door closed.Refinishing just one step isn't such a huge job.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Hey Rich,That's a good idea. Thanks very much. That tread is going to get a lot of wood filler (lots of holes from tack strips from old carpet), but I agree that the first step refinished will look good with the rest of the oak flooring in the hall when that gets refinished.Don't worry--I'm not cutting off the nosings, thanks to all of your feedback.And thanks to everyone, especially G80104 for the pic. I now have a solid plan for dealing with this area.You guys are great!
Use sawdust from the last sanding mixed with finish as the filler for the holes.BTW, my advice is refinish ALL the steps, repaint the risers, and say goodbye to the carpet guys.
You need the carpet on the stairs. Without it, it's difficult to sneak in at night.Bear
Unless the carpet installer staples the carpet to the underside of the nose of the tread you will end up with the waterfall effect. I would leave the treads alone. Here is the same tread you have with carpet on it .
Good photo G. Illustrates the look really well.
View Image
Cutting off the nosings would be a huge mistake BoxBuilder!
YOu don't need to eliminate the nosing to create the waterfall look. The carpet guys simply pull the carpet tight and staple it to the base of the riser. There will be a hollow behind the carpet which poses no problem.
You designer may have never seen a properly done stairs that are tucked and follow the true profile of the rough stairs. The issue of aesthetics is usually one of proportion. IF you are using a thich carpet, with a pad, and wrap a full 2x tread, the resulting thickness can become overwhelming. I've experienced this situation and am wary of it now.
The last stairs I wrapped had Berber carpeting. Berber is much thinner than most carpets and works well on a wrap. I also used 1" plywood treads with a rounded bullnose. This combination produced a very attractive look. I doubt that the waterfall would look better, but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
Whatever you do, don't cut off that nosing. IF you do, you will be creating a substantial trip hazard.
blue
Berber IS much safer. Better friction gripping the sole and less thickness to trip over
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Don't cut off the nosing. Not only is it usually a code violation, but it's also an ergonomic issue. Try walking up a stair without the nosing and your toes will constantly be hitting the riser. It's all dependent upon the way people walk up stairs and has been tested over many generations.
If you cut them off, you'll be constantly tripping up the stairs. Just my two cents.
I cannot understand how not having a nosing becomes a trip hazard, I have never tripped on my 11 1/8 tread and ave hooked the old toes on many a legal nosing. I wear a 10 1/2 size shoe.
I got the impression that carpet installers trying to cut corners gave the 'water fall' effect. It looks like crap as far as I am concerned and serves no purpose. Have the installer form the carpet around the tread.
Leave it to an interior designer to come up with an idea that creates an "effect" while making a good set of stairs more dangerous!
There are more people hurt in accidents in homes than any other place.
Most home accidents happen on stairs.
But you can admire the waterfall effect while they load you on the gurney...
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Do not change your stairs because of a designer. I know from experience that a stairway and a driveway are very important to a homeowner. If you do it wrong, they will curse you every day they get home. Dont make your stairs uncomfortable because of a waterfall look. Because you will hate it every time you go upstairs.
Yes, again, thanks for all the feedback.
I am not removing the nosings!!!
My stairs will be finished like the ones in the pic posted by G80104. And that's exactly the look I want.
Thanks again!
no need to shout.