Driving through the neighborhood where I’m currently on a project, I saw this deck. My curiosity is up enough that I may have to get out of the truck and get closer pics. Also thinking about approachjing the HO about a replacement…not repairs, I don’t think I want anything to do with what’s in place now. Supporting posts are 4×4, spliced with a 1×6 box about 12″ long. Man , I have to get closer….got to see the size & spacing of joists, attachment to house, etc.
Do it right, or do it twice.
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Replies
you never know where you'll run into another Hometime fan
Excellence is its own reward!
Love them "stairs"_______________________
10 .... I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful.
11 For no one can lay any other foundation than the one we already have--Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11
I like the way the brace is attached to the boxed joint.
SamT
Sleepless in Columbia.
Diurnal rhythm? What songs did they do?
They did a very good job with that brace.
That corner of the deck is very strong and not going anywhere.
That is as long as the post below it and the the back 1/2 of the joist (towards the house) hold.
But that corner is STRONG.
Ya know........ that 2-story deck looks alot like the one Calvin was working on a few months ago, brick building and all - but I could be wrong.<G>
LOL Ralph, I hope for your sake Calvin misses this post. Man is there an absence of building inspectors around that town or what? It's not like you can't see the deck or anything.
Looks like a good door to leave a business card at, with a note, Call me before you step out on that deck.
Very scary!"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
WOW!!!
Did you see the LOOK Calvin just gave me??<G>
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Man Calvin, Take it easy on Ralph, he was just kidding :-)"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Now I know how larry feels.
nahhhhhhhhh.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Coincedentally on topic...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030629/ap_on_re_us/porch_collapse&cid=519&ncid=716
View Image
Rim joist nailed to post....not a good sign. At least there's a joist hanger hanging off the rim. I'd love to know how the ledger was attached(or not). Looks to me that's where the failure was. Can't zoom enough to see...
Mike
That's terrible Mike. I know that fire marshals inspect buildings for code violations and safety issues but I think it is time for the building department to start reviewing weather or not these decks meet todays safety standards.
It is so unfortunate people have to lose their lives before something is done."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Absolutely awful, totally unnecessary loss of life. Especially to be a group of young'uns.
As for the inspections, I'm sure there would've had to have had one legally. I wouldn't like to think of inspectors nosing around everyone's house looking for problems. I'd LOVE to know whether that was a midnite deck install or whether an inspector signed off on it.
Mike
Here is an interesting quote;
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-porch30.html
The porch collapse that killed 12 young partygoers in Lincoln Park came about a month after the city's building commissioner warned that such accidents have become an ugly annual tradition.
"Every summer, porches collapse due to large parties and gatherings held on unstable porch systems," Commissioner Norma Reyes wrote in her May 25 advisory.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50713-2003Jun30.html
"A structural engineer conducted a preliminary examination and determined that the porch was sound, said City Building Commissioner Norma Reyes. She said the city was unable to find a construction permit for the porch, which was built in 1998."
"Officials found permits for other repairs at the building that year, but Reyes said it was unclear whether the porch exceeded the scope of those documents."
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-porch30.html
"It was simply a case of too many people in a small space," said Chicago Fire Commissioner James Joyce. "It's a tragic case of overloading the back porches."
"Building owner Philip Pappas of LG Properties informed city officials he converted the building from five to three units in 1998, and that the porch was installed during the renovation. But officials had yet to find a permit for the porch work, a source said late Sunday."
"Pappas, who was vacationing in Canada on Sunday, told officials through his building manager that an architect applied for the porch permit. Officials were trying to speak to the architect, the source said."
"Because the first floor of the building contains commercial property--a dry cleaner--the city conducts annual inspections, the source said. None of the inspections, including the latest one in November, showed a problem with the porch, according to the inspection reports."
"It was obvious the apartment was too crowded, and we had bad feelings about the porch," said Pigott, whose sister went with her to the party. "There were so many people on the deck, and everybody was gravitating toward the two kegs that were near a white table, and then they would move to the middle of the deck."
One neighbor who passed by earlier in the evening said the party "looked like a crammed bar."
Pigott and her sister were alarmed enough to leave the party about 12:25 a.m. and went across the street to the Burwood Tap tavern, she said. A few minutes later, someone ran in to tell them what had happened.
The wooden porch was bolted to the brick wall, said a Reyes spokeswoman.
The porch appeared to collapse at the point it was bolted to the wall; some bolts pulled straight out and did not shear off, firefighters said.
The best approach is to embed a porch structure into the masonry, said Francis Patrick Murphy, an attorney with Corboy & Demetrio who has handled many suits involving porch collapses.
Let's hear it from a contractor in Chicago - what are the codes there re porch/deck attachment to a building, requirements for joist attachment, required joist size for a 13' span, etc.
Like Bill pointed out - rim joist nailed to post is a red flag! Appears to be no girder either.Matt
It seems from all of the witness that even if the strictest of codes were followed, there was just too many people on it. Maybe the building codes should be updated to require the addition of a max occupancy sign for each high level deck.
molten.. i just ran some hypothetical numbers... say 1 person occupying a space 18" x 18"
and men weighing say 250 and women weighing 110 for an average of 180 LB.
so a deck of 9x9 could hold 36 people with an average wt of 180 would equal 80 lb. / sf..
our decks in RI have to be designed for 60 lb. SF.. i bet that deck didn't hold 60 lb..
i bet it failed way before it got to 60.. and i bet it failed just like a chain.. one conection pulled out.. which over loaded the next and that failed .. and so on...
in other words i bet if it were really built to hold 60 lb. / sf.. it would never have failed no matter how many people you put on it..
what do you think some hypothetical numbers would look like ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I think you know a whole lot more about it than I do. I needed your wisdom last weekend when I tried to haul a yard of pea gravel in my 10 y/o F-150.
molten .. i get yard in mine all the time.. it squats a little.. and i need a bench to see over the dash... but it hasn't bottomed out yet... mine was a '91 with the helper springs and towing package..Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Heh...mine is a '94 w/134k miles, stock suspension. Busted another leaf shackle. I'm getting good at changing those. The guy driving the tractor was laughing his a55 off and got off the tractor to look under my truck, as soon as he bent over, the shackle snapped and scared the sh!t out of him! Then I laughed my a55 off and drove it home (slowly). Guess I'm not the sharpest spoon in the drawer.
I'm with Mike - even though we only build our decks to 40 PSF I think the deck would not have failed if built to those standards. The deck was only 4 or 5 years old and from what little I can see and guess from the pics it was all about things comming apart, not joists breaking, etc. Ie - inadequate attachment.
You can see just from the pics that the ledger atachment was questionable at best, and as I said eariler there was no girder at the outboard end of the deck. You can see by the ugly railing that it was a low bid job...
I have no idea of what codes are in effect in Chicago, but the latest news is that the building inspections dept up there can't find any record of a permit being pulled.
Matt
on the news it was just reported that the code is for 100lbs pr sq ft.
OK - if it's 100 PSF, 13' x 20' porch (I believe is what I read) = 26,000 lbs!!!! at 200 # per person, that's 130 people!!!!!!Matt
So the lowest bidder wins again. If there's no record of a permit, then it's probably safe to assume it wasn't done by a professional that knows the right way.
Hey I pointed that out!
Why I oughta...
heh,heh,heh
I wonder if there was a permit for this...
LOL Mike- where did you get that picture? I saved it , that is too funny."Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
I got it from http://www.boners.com.
Pretty funny site, but way off-color. Not for kids.
They are connected(I think) with http://www.rotten.com somehow and that is a seriously morbid site. Accident photos, crime scene photos, autopsies, etc.
Mike
You guys are so damned fussy!
A few drywall screws here and there, a bit of plumbers tape at stress points...why, I might even be tempted to tack down some indoor-outdoor carpet and put in a central drain for when the keg foams over.
I kind of like the nautical curvature of the handrail....nice touch!
That must be one of those new "collapsable" decks for tenants. Makes for easy transportation to new abode.
I'd have to say that guy's got to be an avid watcher of "Help around the house". IMHO, Hometime isn't too bad.
Mike
Duct tape can fix it.
Or at least keep it safe from terrorists....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
seems to be a lot of sh!tty deck building going on and a lot of talk about it here...
You should have seen the "ground" level deck I just fixed, dropped ~12' from one end to the next because the post that were buried in the ground rotted and gave way.
Bob, you ever thought of franchising?? There is money to be made here...
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
dropped ~12' from one end to the next ..........
12 feet????
It was built so bad that it sunk into the ground 12 feet? Must be quick sand caused by poor foundation drainage. I think CAG needs to fix that problem also. Can you re-use a deck thats been 12 feet under ground? Or does it make more sense to just leave it and build another?
12"
12 inches, but I think you knew thatNever be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
Nope.. What ever it is or was it was like that the day before I got there.