Willies recent posts got me thinking. Does anyone have a answer ready for the ten or fifteen common objections that we routinely see and hear when we are out there selling our services? I’m guessing that the most successful contractors here can immediately respond in a sensible manner to most of the challenging questions and objections by their clients. I’m also guessing that the less successful contractors choke on their words when they try to explain something that they haven’t sorted out in their own minds.
I’ve heard a few objections in my day and I know that there are some very smart people in here that can offer an answer to all of them. One size does not fit all, so I’d be interested in seeing a variety of objections and answers if you don’t mind sharing.
Heres some of the most common objections.
Why is your price so high?
Can you break down the labor and materials?
If I supply the materials, can you install it?
I need this done by my daughter’s party next week.
Do you use subcontractors?
Are you insured?
How can I fix the price (on a job where problems are hidden)?
Can you give me a quote over the phone?
Can you drop off the estimate in my door tomorrow?
My uncle is a plumber and can I have him do the plumbing?
Why should I pay so much for the installation, I saw it available at Home Depot for $100 less?
Can you sketch out what you are going to do and include it with the estimate?
etc, etc, etc,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If anyone has some better objections, please toss them into the soup. I’d love to see the various answers to them and any others, especially because everyone has a different perspective. Example: a one man band will answer differntly to some of the objections. T&M guys will answer different than fixed bid people.
I’ll answer one of them when I get back tonite. I gotta go do some contractin’.
Bob’s next test date: 12/10/07
Replies
Can you break down the labor and materials?
I've had it happen (typically with plumbers) where the contractor takes the retail price (not his cost) and uses the same amount for labor. Doesn't make sense when the time involved to install it is out of whack with the price.
Are you insured?
What's wrong with wanting to know if the contractor is insured?
Do you use subcontractors?
When I bought a new house one of the subs told me that the GC was only going to be as good as his subs. I had a problem which I questioned the GC on and he told me that he wasn't around when the sub did the work. I couldn't chase the sub. GC was really busy and hired whatever subs he could find. If he used his own employees then the assumption would be that they are going to be up to his standards and somewhat more accountable, whereas with a sub it could be a one shot take the $ and run deal.
Objection:
"Why should I pay so much for the installation, I saw it available at Home Depot for $100 less?"
Response:
With me you are getting me. With Home Depot you are getting the next guy on the list. If an issue comes up, you call me. etc.
Side note; When I first went out on my own, an acquaintance from church had me come look at some stuff at a rental he was selling. Previously he had used another acquaintance from church, (let's call him Cliff). Landlord: What is your rate?
TFB: $50 an hour
Landlord: Cliff only charges $40
TFB: Cliff isn't here right now is he?
Got the much needed work, but the dork still stiffed me about $100.
I now charge $75/hr. and avoid rental properties and "make readys" like the plague. Nothing against the owners of such, but the bottom line in these cases is the cost and nothing else. Can't blame them, it is an investment after all.
You should know that these are forms of objections heard in every industry, not just construction. Truly overcoming objections in sales usually involves changing the game as there is no end to the pissing contest otherwise. That having been said, here you go:
Why is your price so high?
High is a relative term. Higher than what? Who? I offer the best value because I offer the best product in the end.
Can you break down the labor and materials?
Sure, but I do so only for information purposes. I will not split the bid apart.
If I supply the materials, can you install it?
You may purchase the materials I specify. Using your materials involves a new bid and may not even be possible.
I need this done by my daughter's party next week.
If I can make the time available, it would involve a rush charge, however, quality work should never be rushed.
Do you use subcontractors?
Yes, but I am responsible for the finished product, so you will always deal with me.
Are you insured?
Yes.
How can I fix the price (on a job where problems are hidden)?
A fixed price always includes a premium to cover risk. It's the same in your business right?
Can you give me a quote over the phone?
I don't quote over the phone any more than a doctor diagnoses over the phone.
Can you drop off the estimate in my door tomorrow?
Perhaps. A quality estimate takes time just like a quality job.
My uncle is a plumber and can I have him do the plumbing?
If your uncle does the plumbing, then he must be responsible for all aspects of the installation and any damage resulting to the schedule or structure just like my own subcontractors. Typically I have found that it's best to avoid business with family members, but that's your call.
Why should I pay so much for the installation, I saw it available at Home Depot for $100 less?
You should go with the supplier that makes you the most comfortable.
Can you sketch out what you are going to do and include it with the estimate?
Yes, but design work will cost you $$$ up front. Time is money.
Thanks so far. There are a couple gems in there already!
Heres a couple objections that might come up often. Toss in some of the ones you regularly hear.
Can I get a discount if you pay me cash?
If I do some of the work, how much would I make?
My brother in law does carpentry but he's out of work. I wanted to use him but he's not the right guy for all the electrical and stuff. Could you hire him for the carpentry?
I'd like to sign right now but I can't get you that deposit check till next thursday. Can you lock me into that June schedule today?
It's more than I budgeted for. Can you give me a break on the price
Note to those willing to offer some of their solutions: please don't feel like you have to answer every one. Grab a couple and give us your best reply. I'll try to compile them into a PDF file after we hash this out and get to the silly stuff. My goal here is to help guys like Willie out who are struggling with his responses to "tough" questions.
Frenchy will tell you that every objection is a prime spot to explain the benefits of your company. If the client isn't asking questions or challenging and objecting, you are either dead in the water or not noticing the signs to close the deal.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim,
Good idea for a thread. A few thoughts on the questions below:
Can I get a discount if you pay me cash?
My costs remain the same regardless of the payment method, and I am responsible for paying quarterly tax estimates, so unfortunately I am unable to offer any discounts for cash payments.
If I do some of the work, how much would I make?
Actually sir/madam, I would anticipate the total cost of your project to increase. It's not that you are incapable of doing the work as much as you are unlikely to be able to accommodate my schedule. I assume you would be working at nights and on weekends and if you are unable to complete your portion at night, I may not be able to work the following day. This scenario would extend your project and add to the total cost.
My brother in law does carpentry but he's out of work. I wanted to use him but he's not the right guy for all the electrical and stuff. Could you hire him for the carpentry?
I am a sole proprietor who does not have employees and therefore do not carry workers comp insurance to cover employees, so I couldn't hire your brother. Likewise, my means and methods, and therefore my price, are based on my experiences as well as the known quantities of my regular subs. Introducing an unknown into that process would certainly change the dynamics of the job and ultimately cost one of us some money. My services for this project include a turn-key job for you using my skills, materials and sub-contractors.
I'd like to sign right now but I can't get you that deposit check till next first. Can you lock me into that June schedule today?
Unfortunately, the deposit is required to "lock" you into the schedule. Operating on a "first come first serve" basis has proven to be the fairest solution to all of my potential clients. This time of year can be a little hectic in scheduling projects, but I will call you next Thursday to update you on my schedule and collect the deposit.
It's more than I budgeted for. Can you give me a break on the price
(shame on me for offering a proposal/price without first determining the budget <G>)
The price in the proposal is based on my understanding of your project requirements. Perhaps we should review what your budget is for this project. We might be able to change some of the finishes or eliminate one of these options to help the project scope better fit your budget.
blue:
Why is your price so high?
My price isn't high... my price is usually lower than someone else doing the same quality work. If you have a lower price, are you sure we're going to deliver the same quality ?
Can you break down the labor and materials?
Only if you want me to do this job on a Time & Materials basis. This is a fixed price contract. On some items I may make some money, on others I may lose some money. If I lose , I'm not comming back asking for more, not unless the scope of the job changes. At the end of the year, I may have a profit, or I may have a loss... if I have a loss, would you like to give me some additional money ? We will deliver good quality and peace of mind. Is that enough ? If you would like to try and savce some money , we may be able to change some materials, but most of the materials we use are either industry standard or better, so I wouldn't be recommending that we lower our standards.
If I supply the materials, can you install it?
Absolutely, however, any problems with the material will be your responsibility. Any shortages, any defective items, any warranty problems with the mfr. Are you sure you want to take on that responsibility ? Also, I will have to charge a little more for our labor to make up for the contribution to our overhead that the material would have provided. In the end , we have to make so much on each job, or go out of business.
I need this done by my daughter's party next week.
Depends on the scope of work and the other commitiments we already have.
Do you use subcontractors?
Yes, for lots of things that don't involve labor or carpentry. We use pretty much the same subs we been using and trusting for the last 15 years or so.
Are you insured?
Absolutely... you can look us up on the Contractor Registration Board... or , after we sign a contract I can provide you with Certificates of Insurance.
How can I fix the price (on a job where problems are hidden)?
there are only two ways that I know of to give you a fixed price if we suspect there will be hidden conditions.. either bid the job high enough to absorb the additional risk........ or issue a Change Order when we discover it. My responsibilty is to perform the contract according to what we both understand the conditions to be. If there are unforeseeen problems that you are aware of and I am not, then you should reveal them so we can plan accordingly.
Can you give me a quote over the phone?
No, but I'd be glad to meet with you and your husband and discuss the work. When can we all get together ?
Can you drop off the estimate in my door tomorrow?
No ... see the previous
My uncle is a plumber and can I have him do the plumbing?
No.... I don't know your Uncle... have him give me a call and I'll discuss it with him .
Why should I pay so much for the installation, I saw it available at Home Depot for $100 less?
Then it was probably worth $200 less.. they can't compete with us on quality.
Can you sketch out what you are going to do and include it with the estimate?
Sure... the design fee for what we are discussing would be $XXXX.
etc, etc, etc,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Can you give me a quote over the phone?
Sure, you want Dylan? 'She was married when we first met, soon to be divorced. I helped her out of a jam I guess, but I used a little too much force' delivered in a pretty good imitation.
good quote.....how about...." quoth the raven...........nevermore "Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Harry, thats a great line! Wish I could use it someday.
Doug
Personally, I prefer "The door burst open and Colt revolver clicked".
"It's more than I budgeted for. Can you give me a break on the price(shame on me for offering a proposal/price without first determining the budget <G>)The price in the proposal is based on my understanding of your project requirements. Perhaps we should review what your budget is for this project. We might be able to change some of the finishes or eliminate one of these options to help the project scope better fit your budget."from http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=104491.10"The HO that called me got Lowes to come out and price the job. They priced the job at $5K. By the time they called me they wanted another quote from me. I gave them one for $3K. it wasn't until after I gave them my $3k price that they said Lowes wanted $5K. I coulda kicked myself and made it $4K and made more."just information
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
bobl,
was this post directed to me? You have pasted my text from an earlier post and then followed it up with text from Willie's post from a previous thread.
I am failing to see the correlation. My comments were based on the following assumptions:
- contractor has reviewed the job and developed a proposal/price and submitted to the potential client.
- the client has sticker shock (or some other reason) and would like to see if the contractor can reduce the price to fit their budget.
My first comment was tongue in cheek in that I assumed I could have avoided the situation if I had previously determined the budget and would have tried to educate the potential client that their hopes and dreams of a new addition were not going to happen for only $7500.00. Thereby eliminating an awkward situation when I present a much higher number.
Assuming I was at that point of presenting a price "blind" (again a lot of assumptions here) I would offer the advice that we can reduce the scope of the work and thus the price, but I cannot reduce the price w/o changing the scope.
Willie said he was disappointed that he could have gotten more money based on the Lowe's price. But he was willing to perform the service at 3k. Granted, armed with the info. the client thought 5k was reasonable, he could have made more money, but it has been repeated here many times that you need to price work according to your business model, and not what the "other guys" charge.
Can you please clarify???
"Willie said he was disappointed that he could have gotten more money based on the Lowe's price. But he was willing to perform the service at 3k. Granted, armed with the info. the client thought 5k was reasonable, he could have made more money, but it has been repeated here many times that you need to price work according to your business model, and not what the "other guys" charge.Can you please clarify???"sure,I had added FYI to my post because it was information about "you need to price work according to your business model, and not what the "other guys" charge."everyone doesn't do that, and as a customer you don't know what business model someone is using. so if you try to negotiate some people get upset and think you're trying to chisel them and therefor the customer is a scumbag.In the post copied the poster felt like he left $1000 on the table, but from his business model he would have been satisfied with the $3k. Would he have been a "scumbag contractor" if he had said $4K knowing his business model said for him $3K was the price? (and I'm NOT calling him a scumbag.) There are 2 sides to a business transaction, and because one side tries to improve their position does not makes them a thief, chiseler, or scum.another part is revealing your budget. if someone knows my budget is $5k and their business model says $3k is a good contract to them, do they bid $3k or $4k, making $1k more than their model, but letting me feel I'm $1k under budget.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
bobl,
thanks for adding to your comments.
You offered, "There are 2 sides to a business transaction, and because one side tries to improve their position does not makes them a thief, chiseler, or scum".
I agree there are two sides, and there are a lot of contractors who charge "what the other guy does" or only, "what the market will bear". I also do not believe that in 95% of situations, either party is a thief,chiseler, or scum.
However, I think the mentality of "charging what the other guy does" usually works against the small, independent contractor rather than the consumer. IMO, following this pricing strategy results in pricing work too low and prevents people from making a decent profit.
I will not speak for Willie (the OP you quoted) but I can assume from his other thread(s) that his pricing strategy had been too low to afford him sufficient business income.
I have never encountered a contractor who can't figure out why he gets to make so much money on a project. Maybe I'm altruistic, but I like to believe that the contractors who charge a premium do so to ensure they can offer a premium service, be proud of the work they do, make an honest living, provide for their family, and put something away for retirement.
another part is revealing your budget. if someone knows my budget is $5k and their business model says $3k is a good contract to them, do they bid $3k or $4k, making $1k more than their model, but letting me feel I'm $1k under budget.
I understand your skepticism in offering your budget. It's common that people will not divulge their budget for fear of being taken advantage of. However, consumers (myself included) are very often optimistic about the costs of purchases and therefore tend to budget low. I find it rare that a verbal budget is significantly more than the actual cost to build the project.
I ask about the budget to help qualify and quantify the project. If it is unrealistically low, I will decline to continue. If it is 20-30% low I would suggest reducing the scope of work, 10%-20% low then I suggest scaling back some of the options, less than 10%, or if they offered a range, I may prepare them for spending slightly more than they anticipated. However, I have never been in the position where a client stated their budget and I had to increase my price to come up to the budget.
Your post offers up another objection that would probably come up 75% of the time!Contractor: "I'd like to understand what your budget is for this project. How much do you intend to spend on this?"Homeowner: "I'd rather not say. I'm hoping to get your best price...".Or "I really don't know..."Or "If I tell you my budget, how will I know I'm not getting overcharged?" Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim,
I just encountered this situation 2 nights ago.
The HO described a basement finish with a family room, bedroom, office, and a higher end bathroom.
I asked, "have you considered your budget for this project?"
response, "yes"
but it was clear that they did not want to divulge any further info.
It took a little discussion, and I offered that the last few projects I had done were in a range of $XX-YY per sq.ft. We discussed their desires a little further and then I suggested that what they described was going to cost between 35k-45k, depending on what level of finishes they wanted.
It was then that the owner admitted that their budget was approx. $40k.
I offered to provide a proposal/design for a fee but they wanted to think about it, and were soliciting other estimates. I outlined what I could do (for a fee) and asked them to contact me if they would like to continue.
Two observations from this meeting:
I know as a salesman I did not satisfy all of their objections and I left without a commitment, but it is really not my style to pressure people into things. I would rather they engage me. I am ok if they don't pursue it further.
Second observation- Only a few years ago, I would have measured the whole place, taken photos, made notes and prepared an entire proposal w/drawings- at no cost. I probably wouldn't have even asked the budget, and since it was a referral, I wouldn't have considered competing against other contractors. Then I would present it and hope for the best. Best case- 33% chance of success.
At this point, I have 1 hour invested, I know they have a realistic budget, and I am interested in their project. IF they sign on, then we move forward, but if they proceed differently, at least I don't have 20+ hours invested in a proposal that I cannot recoup.
The budget had/has nothing to do with my pricing. It only serves as a benchmark to gauge the amount or level of services I can provide.
If the budget is too low, we need to scale back or adjust somewhere.
If the budget is too high.... well, that hasn't happened yet.
I am still trying to wrap my head around a really good sales presentation that will help me broach the subject of budget.
"I am still trying to wrap my head around a really good sales presentation that will help me broach the subject of budget."Thats the purpose of this thread! When you have a solid answer for every objection, and you can deliver them in a solid way, you will have a really good sales presentation. And, of course, it will be tailored to suit your specific business but the jist of the replies will usually be the same. I think the issue of budget is probably the most important topic of the initial meeting. I also think that because of this thread, I've devised a very solid response to a timid client. "Mrs. Jones, this is the type of project that we love to do and we do them well. I'm sure you will be relieved when you check our references to find out that we deliver excellent results in a timely, friendly manner. One of the ways we keep our costs lower, yet deliver superior results, is by avoiding the enormous wasted time putting together design packages and proposals for projects that can't be built within the clients budget. Are you interested in saving as much time as possible and still get the best possible price for your project?It's very easy to design wonderful dream packages but hard to pay for them. We all have a limit on our spending and most of us have bigger dreams than pocketbooks. Also, most people, including myself, tend to underestimate the cost of things...it's human nature. Has that ever happened to you before?To minimize wasted time, and to be fair to each other, we need to understand what your budget is for this project. We know our costs and we charge accordingly, and you know what your top limit is, so we might as well see if there is a possibility to find out if we can find some common ground. Wouldn't you rather find out today if our company is a good fit with your project and budget?Some homeowners think that revealing their budget will damage their ability to get their best deal. That might be true if you only intend to talk to one contractor. Most homeowners talk to at least three contractors and I'm sure you will too. If our prices are too high, wouldn't you just choose one of the other contractors instead of us?""Would you like to know how you can get your best deal from the three different contractors who probably build things three different ways, with three different price structures?"When Mrs Jones says yes, move the conversation into the design package
explanation. Again, it's best to use a series of questions and then LISTEN TO HER RESPONSE.The real skill to delivering this type of series of questions and explanations is to do it in a normal conversational tone. That shouldn't be too much trouble for you if you believe it yourself. I myself would have no trouble delivering that line of logic because it's all absolutely 100% true. As contractor's we save money by reducing our overhead and non productive time. Time is money and if Mrs Jones still refuses to discuss the budget, I'd probably walk. In fact, I know I would walk. I'm already too busy with real jobs and I don't have time to entertain someone's paranoid mental exercise. I'd be willing to come back after they've figured out what their budget is by talking to other contractors though. Probably the best time to settle the budget issue is in the phone conversation that sets the initial meeting. If Mrs Jones won't discuss the budget on the phone, I'd probably not set an appointment. That idea would depend on the project and my hunger index. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
After reading your opening lines, I thought of your response on the "yes" answer. You ask about the budget. They say "yes, we've considered our budget". You say: "Great because the budget information is our most critical piece of information needed to guide our design and product selection process. There are thousands of variables and both of us could waste a lot of time not working within each other's parameters. I'm glad that you have decided on a budget....most people don't, won't or are afraid to talk about it. Will you mind sharing your budget decisions with me, so I can evaluate them and determine their feasibility?"Vintage, this is a very direct request, as opposed to your vague "have you considered the budget?". Your question is a nice soft lead-in to the hard explanation that you will have to do if they don't want to share. This direct response first gives them a little praise for figuring it out, then asks them directly to share it. It is opening the door for the numerous sales presentations that are necessary on a remodeling "estimate". Also, it might be wise to include some reverse language when dealing with the "hardened" type. They tend to have their guard up and will be resistant to anything you suggest. A different way of asking that same question would be: "Will you mind sharing your budget decisions with me, so I can evaluate them and determine their feasibility, or probably not eh?" The natural tendency for suspicious people is to do the reverse of what you last have asked. You've just told them that they probably won't want to share the information and they will do the reverse with you...basically they don't want you dictating to them that they aren't willing to share the info...so, they share! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim,
I appreciate your comments and I have copied the text onto my hard drive. As you said, I think that the biggest challenge is to be able to present this in a conversational tone.
This is good food for thought. I may post more questions/comments later
Thanks
All,
I just responded to some of Jim's questions and found it to be a really good excersice.
As he said earlier, some of the veterans will have quick answers to these questions but for some of us greener guys, I think it really helps to verbalize why you can't give in to those requests, even if you don't encounter them too often.
I'll admit that the one I have come across most often is the "will you hire my brother-in-law" and my answer above has never been met with any further resistance.
My niche is small jobs with high quality (yeah, lot's of people say that too) so my answers might be unique. I don't advertise so they have an idea of who/what I am before they call. I miss more jobs than I get and that's fine with me.
Why is your price so high?
compared to who and what were you thinking your cost should be?
Can you break down the labor and materials?
Part of the instlling labor is buying the correct materials in the 1st place. Remove me from the purchase process and the labor costs go up.
If I supply the materials, can you install it?
Only if it's a unique fixture that's hard to find. See the above.
I need this done by my daughter's party next week.
Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitue an emergency on my part. (I never really get these calls, though)
Do you use subcontractors?
When they can do the job better/quicker than me, yes I do. I'll be there with them when they're on your property though.
Are you insured?
Yes, would you like to see the proof?
Can you give me a quote over the phone?
No. Would you like to buy my truck? I got a bridge for sale; want to buy that? There's far too many variables that, even though you may be very thorough, that may not be obvious. I'll need to see what you have in person.
Can you drop off the estimate in my door tomorrow?
An accurate estimate that would be fair to you and me takes time to figure correctly. I do have a family like you so I don't work past 5:00p.
Why should I pay so much for the installation, I saw it available at Home Depot for $100 less?
why'd you call me again?
Can you sketch out what you are going to do and include it with the estimate?
I'll show you a sketch, but that's part of my work. Unless you pay me for the design of it it stays with me. I'd rather not subisdize my competitors by giving them my plans.
Can you break down the labor and materials?
I like answering this one because what customers don't realize is that if you, the contractor, are a one man band the price of labor includes all aspects of getting the job done. Clerical, sales, management, labor, etc.. Just because they only see you giving them an estimate and then doing the labor they think we snap our fingers and the rest gets magically done by itself.
The other questions I would second what most have already said.
"Can I do some of the work?"
What is your experience? Who did you train under or work for? I'm not saying no, but I have had other clients realize, after the fact, that it may take them 3 hours to do what i might do in 15 minutes. One hour of your time does not equate to one hour of my time.
On top of that, I feel every job has the signiture of the worker, and we autograph ours with excellence. Are you able and prepared (experienced and tooled up?) to work to that level? For example I had a client do their own painting. on the interior trim, they used exterior oil based paint, and put it on with a roller. I was embarassed for them, but I had to put it up and move on to the next job. I would not want anyone to see that work.
Can you drop off the estimate in my door tomorrow?
No, I prefer to set up a time to meet and go over the estimate, what day and time works for you.?
My uncle is a plumber and can I have him do the plumbing?
Who is he? Who did he work for, and who did he train under? I need you to realize that in remodeling there is a difference between someone who knows what a pipe is, and a genuine plumber.
I'm not saying no, just realize that my estimates are based on using the people I work with all the time. We know each others work style, and abilities. I have leverage over them because of the amount of work we do with each other every year. So if I need something immediately to keep a job going, I have no problem getting it done. Are you able to do the same with your uncle?
You are not just hiring me to work on your house. Through me you are accessing a network of professionals.
Why should I pay so much for the installation, I saw it available at Home Depot for $100 less?
Because I have to support my drug habit too. Seriously, getting it from Home Depot is choosing price over cost. Price is a one time thing, cost encompasses price, trust, the whole experience, and durability of the finished product. I have no doubt you can pay a lower price, but apples to apples I try to be the best value.
Can you sketch out what you are going to do and include it with the estimate?
No. But I'll bring drawings, plans, and photos from other projects to help you understand what we going to do.
Bowz
Some of these I've encountered:
Why is your price so high?
I've priced what we discussed as far as construction type, wood specie, finish, finish enhancements, etc. based on the plan we reviewed. If others are bidding this, why are their prices so low? Perhaps they aren't pricing you equals. (Often the case) If no one else is bidding, then what makes you think this price is high?
I almost never price a job without some idea of the budget involved. Even people who say they have no idea actually can come very close to an accurate estimate on their own.
I need this done by my daughter's party next week.
People in hell need ice water, too. Just kidding...my standard response to any rush job or projects that start near October and need to be done by Thanksgiving is "The best planned projects can be affected by things that neither of us can control, so my advice is to allow the proper amount of time for ordering and completion of your work and not try to set an unreasonable deadline." I just don't take "rush" projects.
Can you give me a quote over the phone?
Any quote I gave you without actually determining the exact requirements and spending the time necessary to work up pricing is going to be useless to you.
Can you drop off the estimate in my door tomorrow?
I can start working on your estimate immediately/tomorrow/"Tuesday", and it's going to take me about __ hours/days to put together some concrete figures. I can email or fax you the quote and we can discuss it over the phone to help speed things up, but there's no way to get good information together in less than....
At $3.65 and up for a gallon of gas, I don't drive anywhere to drop off quotes.
Can you sketch out what you are....
I'll bring you some drawings of what I'm proposing for you to look at when we meet to review the pricing. If you want a copy of these drawings for your own use, the design fee is $####, which will be credited back to you if you purchase the cabinets from me.
Surprising, very few people I've encountered recently have actually asked for drawings without asking me what the cost is. On simple kitchens I'll often attach a perspective or a basic floorplan to the quote, since I haven't spent a lot of design time on them.
I can pretty well qualify a client now, and I will sometimes leave more detailed plans with someone I feel is going to buy a kitchen from me. Got so I can spot a "shopper", and I often don't even quote those. I like to be the person they finally come back to when everyone else has burst their bubble.
susie......
<<<<<
Can you drop off the estimate in my door tomorrow?
I can start working on your estimate immediately/tomorrow/"Tuesday", and it's going to take me about __ hours/days to put together some concrete figures. I can email or fax you the quote and we can discuss it over the phone to help speed things up, but there's no way to get good information together in less than....
At $3.65 and up for a gallon of gas, I don't drive anywhere to drop off quotes.>>>>
i find that aout 75% of the time..... if i present my Proposal in person... with both owners present.. i will get a signature & a deposit ( subject to 3 day recission rule )
AND... we don't do estimates.. only Proposals that become contracts once signed
edit: along those same lines... sometimes we don't get the job.... but in that case , a lot of the time, they regret not using us.. presenting the Proposal helps separate us from the mob
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 5/14/2008 2:00 pm ET by MikeSmith
Glad you replied, and I totally agree! I probably shouldn't have just picked up the terminology from the post, because I really don't do estimates, either, these days.
When I first started back into kitchens a few years ago building was going crazy here, and I found myself doing "estimates" based on faxed or emailed floorplans from prospective customers who wanted something immediately. I was always leery of people who wanted pricing immediately and who couldn't be bothered to come in and see what I'd be quoting them, or who would drop off plans for pricing.
My "estimates" nowadays are preliminary to a final proposal, say when the customer modifies a design and asks for a price in cherry and in maple. Like you, I do proposals that are meant to become contracts.
And it's very true that the best way to get the job is face to face. You have a really good closing rate at 75% - congratulations!
Here's a couple Ive heard recently;
Q; Since youre a contractor, do you get a discount on the materials?
A; No, but I do get the materials delivered for a $5 delivery fee, and they are of better quality than the BB stores. (this used to be free delivery).
You are welcome to pick them up, if you would like to save $5.
Q; You dont mark up your materials, like some contractors do you?
A; Only if I pick up or have the materials delivered. If you pick them up, I wont mark them up, but I wont be able to guarantee them as when I supply them.
Q; Can you do this job and have it done in time for my sons graduation party?
A; No, sorry I cannot. You will have to find someone else to do it.
I might have actually been able to do the job, but why should I bust my chops when the guy called me too late? It can actually have a positive result when the word gets out that you are busy, and to call and schedule early.
Oh, and heres another good one that I havent heard for a long time.
Q; Would you agree to a competion date, and be willing to deduct a $100 a day penalty for each day you are late?
A; Only if you are willing to pay a $100 a day bonus for each day we complete the job ahead of the completion date..
Never had any takers on that one yet!
Why is your price so high?
What are you basing your assessment on and who am I compared to? The rest of my responce would be dictated by their answer.
Can you break down the labor and materials?
Is there some particular area you are wishing to remove from the project in order to better reach your budget? I'm willing to provide options if that's the case and break out sections.. Nobody has yet asked to see a simple break down of labor and material. I may or may not object to that depending on my gut feeling from the customer. I would not sub-divide labor into different catagorgeys etc.
More to come later. Just got a phone call and need to run.
Why is your price so high?
5 year warranty--and I've been in business for long enough for that to mean something. Lowball prices are typically inexperienced guys that don't know their costs. It is always a risk to go low bid. Our customers normally have suffered through a low bid before.
Can you break down the labor and materials.
No, my calculations are not based on labour and materials--PSF is more practical nowadays.
If I supply the materials, can you install it?
Sure.. Hourly--this is my rate.
I need this done by my daughter's party next week.
That will definitely cost extra.
Do you use subcontractors?
Yes... and I am there examining every stick of lumber they install. That's how we keep our prices tight.
Insured... of course. If you aren't...you shouldn't be doing this job.
How can I fix the price -- Fix the job specifications--don't change anything. (I'd rather be honest and let folks know that there is normally a few hundred in hurdles...)
Can you give me a quote over the phone? No, unless it is a board on board pt fence-- $35/ft
Can you drop off the estimate in my door tomorrow? No, when you have time to go over it... we'll get together. (but when someone is saying this he's just collecting prices...shopping for the low bid...better off walking)
My uncle is a plumber and can I have him do the plumbing?
Sure...I'll back it out of my quote... (then I will include a clause in the contract about contractors employed by the home owner causing delays will be covering said delay costs +interest).
Why should I pay so much for the installation, I saw it available at Home Depot for $100 less?
If it is down to $100 difference it's called selling one's self. Let them know that Home Depot may advertise one price...but you are not likely to contract for that price. They add their cut to the contractor's price... that's what you pay--10-30% more.
Can you sketch out what you are going to do and include it with the estimate? I can, however that will take time. We call that a design service and we charge for it... (I charge roughly 100/hour), but it is better to attribute a price to it... $300, $500 etc. I pull out a design contract at that point... and start filling it out.
Last night one of my guys forwarded an email to me from a customer just letting him know that she wouldn't be using his services because he was too expensive. "I love that", doled out like a spanking.... fix your prices...they are too high.
This time of year the exterior woodwork business is invaded by tens of thousands of new and inexperienced businesses that normally fail in a couple of months... the people don't know if they have the experience to do the job... just that their price is lower.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it! Decks Blog
So far, there have been some very nice responses...some of which I'm going to steal verbatim! Others I'll steal and modify by putting a slightly more positive spin on them.I was hoping that there would be more objections and/or questions added. We alll must have heard a thousand of them over the years. It's kind of hard to remember them sitting here but...I'd like to do this without permits. Is that okay with you? Can we reuse the material that you are tearing out? We don't have any plans. It's just a simple box. Can you just build it from these sketches? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
only ran across this once, but it gave me a laugh.
Customer told me they couldn't pay for the $1100 repair right now, but could I set up a payment schedule with them?
I said no.
Told the story to another contractor who said, "Tell them your credit manager is Hellen Wait. That way if they want credit you can tell them to go to Hellen Wait."
Can we reuse the material that you are tearing out?
Sure, I'll leave it in a pile next to the garage, then you can build whatever you want out of it. :)
The reality is, it will cost more to reuse because of the time it will take to carefully remove, and clean up the material. In addition the state code does not allow used material in a structural application, without the material being re-certified. I can and do use small amounts for non-structural work like fireblocking. In addition not all old material is a uniform size, making more difficult to work with.
We don't have any plans. It's just a simple box. Can you just build it from these sketches?
I might be able to, but I am not going to do it. Proper plans will be needed for the permit. In addition a decent plan will get us both on the same page as to what is going to happen, and how it is going to be built. It is a tool to communicate, and confirm decisions.
Bowz
I talked to a guy about remodeling and how he had been doing it over the years.
I told him I was doing some side work and we talked about how much to charge etc
If someone wanted an explanation for his estimate or what he had charged he simply said "My accountant has looked at my business and my expenses and this is what I have to charge to keep the doors open"
It was just something short like that and I thought it was easily understandable for the average consumer.
.
+++
Spring Break = Summer Broke
Reading the questions reminds me of several people who I've done business with, over the years. Those clients are trying to look out for themselves and their investments, with as much intelligence as they can muster. So I take no offense.
My way of dealing with that line of questions is to mentally step back from my initial intention of running an efficient job for my own profit, reminding myself that T&M can be just as profitable when clearly spelled out in a simple contract.
I point out the T&M option, explaining it's benefits and it's shortcomings, winding up with the comparison about estimated costs versus fixed prices according to a firm contract. Most people are quick to see that taking control of the job as a novice homeowner won't serve their aims in the way they imagined.