Salvaging Hardwood Flooring
dustywwilson
| Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on
Folks –
I am trying to salvage for reuse around 400 sqft of 2 1/4 x 3/4in oak t&g hardwood flooring.
My question is – are there any tips for removing the ~2400 nails that this would contain? The nails are a flat L shaped tapered nail.
I can remove them with a hammer … this would be be effective but slow. I have also heard of folks using a dremel and grinding off the nails … has anyone tried using a metal cutting blade on a table saw, setting the guide at 3/4in, and going to town (while wearing some serious protective clothing)?
Thanks,
Dust –
Replies
DUSTY
What you describe is a flooring cleat usually best o bang from bottom out and then pull with a nail nippers from top. If you were to some how grind them you need to get them flush pretty hard to do. Goes faster if you can get a helper one bangs the other pulls. Any High school kids looking to make some dollars on a Saturday?
Wallyo
I take it you already have the flooring up?
I just did a couple hundred square feet of stapled oak, I've got a couple hundred feet more to do yet. I used a 4 1/2" angle grinder with a .045" metal cutting blade to cut the staples off the bottom of the boards. It only takes about 1-2 seconds per staple/nail. Make sure to wear good safety gear.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
dustywwilson
If you haven't done this yet have you calculated your loss? With a great deal of care and perfect technique it's hard to salvage 75% of the wood undamaged..
Remember you can't use wood that loses it's spline because that will both misalign and show subflooring when the wood shrinks during the dry period.. Same goes with the groove portion.
The second issue is how much sanding has been done on the wood already? If heavy sanding has been done when you reuse the wood you could sand right thru the wood and expose the spline which means splinters and a terrible looking floor.
Finally Oak has tannic acids. If moisture of any sort has gotten to the wood you will find the nails are rotted and the rust on those nails will cause decay in the wood surround the nail holes..
New oak flooring starts at .99 cents a sq.ft. so you could buy fresh new wood for $400 to cover 400 sq.ft.
Now to answer your question directly. first use a pair of nippers rather than your hammer. You will break less and damage the wood less.
Forget the table saw, use an angle grinder. as the angle grinder cuts thru the nail the vibration will loosen up the nail head and make it reasonable to pull out with your nippers.
"New oak flooring starts at .99 cents a sq.ft. "Like that distresssed look?The gooder stuff starts at 2.50
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Regardless what the tool is called, I would want a bucket of water and a fire extinguisher there considering how many sparks of hot metal I would be making on dry wood....
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Yes, a hose is handy. <G>
My first woodworking job, the place was a mess and the guy had some ancient equipment. After routing holes in the backs of clock blanks, we would go around with a jug of water, per his instructions, and put out fires the dull bit threw.
Not long after i quit to go to college, his shop burned down. My husband was called to fight the fire, so i let him know that there was methyl bromide, a pesticide used to treat the wood, on the premises; the fire crews just contained it and let it burn with no one getting hurt. Man, that polyester resin burns HOT!
And even the good stuff looks nothing like the old stuff, if it is really old. And if it is really old, it is probably at least rift sawn (and maybe even quarter sawn). And I have no idea what that goes for, even if it is available, since none of the installers I have used even bothers to mention attempting to get matching grain on the new wood.
Not worth it. There I said it.
And if you think you could use a tablesaw and metal blade, yer nuts. Sparks, shrapnel, recipe for disaster and likely destroy the wood, the saw, and you.
Oak flooring is SO cheap, I'd convert the floor to kindling. Thats a "green" alternative.
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It takes time but it is doable. I think Frenchy is low, you can save 85-90% or more but it depends on the specifics. Do what Wallyo says, bang them back through and pull them out. You might want to look at the http://www.nailextractor.com/ If they were staples, forget pulling them out, you need to cut those.
If your doing it alone, just pull up a bunch then take the nails out, and repeat. Just put on some music and take your time.
The $.99 oak is Sh!t so what your salvaging needs to be compared to good oak, not workshop grade ####. I haven't put in oak in a while, the last time select red oak in my area was a little more than $4.50/sq ft.
DDay,
I agree that 99 cent oak can be plenty rough, but critical looking at many recycled flooring means that people are putting back down boards that should have been replaced but not because they would fall short of the material..
I'm probably the tightest poster on this site.. I mean I buy rough sawn green wood and make my own flooring.. But I arrived at that after decades of watching people attempt to save old hardwoodflooring.. I think a person on a given site may be able to save your claimed 85% however overall I would say that 75% is generous.. Especially when time constrants are involved with real lives..
I watched a gym floor which was near new but had swollen up due to flooding get pulled up.. The original intent was to get ahead of the pro crew by working Friday night, Saturday, Sunday, and through the week.. enough ahead of the pros. His so called friends failed to show and he was left attempting to do it by himself.. By Sunday with all the starts and stops of his life and family demands he resorted to rip and tear.. Monday morning when the crew came in and seeing piles of splintered boards and only about 1/4 of it pulled up they devoted a day to finish ripping and tearing.. tossing the remains outside in the rain.
He had gone to work exhausted on monday and slept monday night he didn't see the results of the pros work untill wednesday night when they were sanding the new floor by that time the old flooring was really pretty much junk..
I would say that on average 1 flooring recycle attempt in 4 or 5 results in total failure.. add losses by the most careful remover and that's the basis for my 75% number.
Not a bad job considering the price of quality oak. I saved from every room and only needed three bundles to complete this room after removing a full bath and a hallway from the area. the new stuff is a shade thinner than the old.
al
I used a small, barrel-grip grinder for grinding off the nails for some repairs i did to my floors. It went very fast. You don't need to remove the nails, just get rid of the part that's in the way. <G>
splintergroupie,
The small barrel grip grinder yyou are speaking about is also called a right angle grinder.
The larger grinders, like my Hitachi PDL-180A 7", are also called "angle grinders". Makita lists their 6" as a "right angle grinder". I'm not sure which of my smaller grinders i used on the nails, but my purpose in calling it a "barrel-grip" instead of calling out the brand and model was to differentiate between a grinder requiring two hands and a grinder requiring only one dainty lady's paw to operate it.
It's a 4-1/2" angle grinder
=D--------------------------------------------------------
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Uless it's a 4", like one of mine.
You can run pretty fast with farriers long handler end nippers just cutting the nails off flush with the bottom of the floor and leaving the heads in the tongues.
My wife drew prints for an owner builder who did 90% of his living room floor with salvaged oak and then bought three or four bundles of new to finish it up and after sanding there is no way to tell where the old ends and the new starts.
m
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Thanks -After some previous comments, it is good to know that this has been done before.Dust -
I have a technique that uses several wonderbars to worry each strip off.
on a practical basis, I find that you are going to lose a good 35% of the flooring in the process.
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it would have to be an exotic species before I would bother. if its just run of the mill red oak dont waste your time.
it'll be one of those jobs that half way through you'll be wishin you never started
If you're planning to reuse it as flooring, I gotta ask why?? If it's been sanded and refinished more than a couple of times, it's probably getting marginally thin and may not have another installation/sand/finish left in it.
If it's red oak, it's even more problematic. Red oak is pretty readily available and not all that expensive.
It all comes down to deciding what your time is worth and how much salvaged flooring you can actually get.
Folks -Well, thanks for all the input. I have found that the angle grinder seems to do a good job and I will make sure to have a fire extinguisher on hand.A number of folks have asked why anyone in their right mind would undertake this. Probably the answer is that I am not in my right mind. It certainly isn't about the money ... the savings will be marginal at best.The wood is ~35 years old, does not appear to have been sanded previously, and will be a semi-close match to what is in the house. By profession, I am a teacher and so I do the bulk of my work in the summers. Removing nails is a job that can be chipped away at between algebra classes. Finally, after reading about green building and salvaged wood, I decided it was worth the time (our fireplace doesn't burn well enough to make it worth using as kindling, as was previously suggested).Thanks for the input and feel free to keep posting if there is more to say.Sincerely,
Dust -
there is a pneumatic de-nailer- see nailkicker.com- $265. that will eject nails. I was told it works really well. I havent used. You should definately salvage the flooring. I have salvaged several thousand feet. I think older floors are infinately higher quality than you find today. 12' lenghts of clear, tight grain, with richer tones to me is well worth the effort. Not to mention the environmental benefits of re-using material and keeping it out of landfills.
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Well since your hanging out here in the "green building" folder how'd you make out on that tear down, finished yet?
Doug
Guy said he was out of money and couldn't hire anyone to tear it down so he was going to do it himself.
He was hinting around that some stuff would be available to swap labor over.
Still have to get the rest of stairway whenever he gets to the point that the upstairs is going to be finished.
I'm thinking that would mean pretty close to ground zero day but that's alright, no biggy.
He mentioned he had plans for the vinylsiding,vinyl windows and alum gutters for his work building. The timbers in there are what perks my interest so I'll be checking him out sometime.
'Course there is the old trim on the front of the house. hmmm... Nah, I gotta stop that.
Road past the place 2 weeks ago and nothing had been done to it that I could see so I'm thinking it's not on his high priority list and not something he particularly wants to do.
I'm wondering what I was thinking buying a lightening rod and staircase. heh heh Funny world sometimes.
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i am remodeling a 1860's church with old growth quarter sawn doug fir. i was able to salvage about 80% undamaged and another 10% i can use around the perimeter. i have no problem using a piece with a broken tongue or groove around the perimeter of a room. i counter and plug these pieces. obviously in new construction this would be unadvisable, but the floors in this old church are squeeky anyways. the ho say that it's part of the charm.
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
Yes, if one is very careful he can usually salvage a great amount of old dougfir flooring damagefree depending much on what was used to secure the flooring down.
very careful. old dry doug fir is one of the most brittle woods to work with or against. it's not something that can be rushed. but well worth the effort.
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.