Hey Folks,
We are deconstructing our next project and would like to salvage the old oak floors. They are 2 1/4 strip floors directly on the floor joists. We tried prying the tongue side up and kicking the flooring out. We are having about 50% success in getting pieces in tact. Large chuck of tongue are coming out and significant parts of the lower groove are falling off. The wood is extremely brittle and I am concerned about the workability even after we get it out, cleaned up and reinstalled. Frankly it is not anything very special, just older 1950’s vintage.
Any suggestions or ideas.
Thanks
Bruce
Replies
Trying to save old oak floor can be a real exercise in futility. Because of the grain, oak splits easily, as you've found out.
Personally, I'd just get some big bars and rip the floor up without thought of saving it. 2-1/4" is readily available, and fairly cheap.
But if you want to save it, try a couple of these tricks-
use several small bars, like a WonderBar, to gently pry and work the floor up. Work your way down the stripto get it loose. You can also use a recip saw with a metal blade to cut the nails once you've got some space under the floor.
To try to save any quantity of floor is going to take a lot of time. Unless the floor is particularly valuable or unique, it's generally not worth the time it takes to remove it.
But that's just my opinion. Maybe someone will have better ideas or techniques.
I have the exact dilema and I agree to rip it up, burn it and buy new. I need about 25sq ft and I cannot seem to even salvage that much as it is breaking and splitting with the smallest prying effort.
The wood is so brittle, it just cracks in all kinds of spots. We'll try a little bit more.
Bruce
You can play with it from both sides trying different techniques and tools till you get one that works reasonably well and then work on the percentages of what can be salvaged for reuse and what can't.
be is this a labor of love or what? Keep well stocked with tweezers and Nu-Skin....not to want food the next season; secondly, in order not to discourage poor laboring people whom they brought over in numbers from Fatherland. In the course of three or four years, when the country became adapted to agriculture, they built themselves handsome houses, spending on them several thousands."-Thoreau's Walden
Hiker,Try prying the flooring up just enough to get a sawzall blade under to cut the nails. Once the board is free, then you can remove the remaing nail.Ott
I was reading this thread and thinking, why not use a sawzall with a metal blade, then I got to your post with the same thing. Great minds I guess (g)...
Thanks for all the ideas. The wedges and sawsall ideas are probably functional, but I cannot see trying to get 900 sf up that way. I think we'll give a good try prying gently, and go from there.
This for me is an example why resuse is difficult to justify when you throw in labor. We can have the floor up in two or three hours if we just throw it away. Or we can spend probably three days and may salvage half of the floor. Then numbers just don't work for this kind of material.
Thanks again folks
Bruce
A few years ago, somebody published a tip in FHB that would seem to work well. IIRC they suggested using a series of wedges (maybe 25 deg?) driven in from the groove side of the flooring. They suggested that you just keep driving the wedges forward & not worry about pulling individual boards up until the wedges had gotten past the front/tongue side of the board. At that point, the boards could just be lifted out. The idea clicked w/ me because I had just pulled up about 700 sq ft & after much trial & error ended up using almost the same technique, but with pry bars instead of the wedges.
So what'd you finally end up doing?The owner of the axe, as he released his hold on it, said that it was the apple of his eye; but I returned it sharper than I received it. It was a pleasant hillside where I worked, covered with pine woods, through which I looked out on the pond, and a small open field in the woods where pines and hickories were springing up. -Thoreau's Walden
We carefully pried them up. Splits and cracks everywhere. Upward and onward.
PS For sale, 900 sf of antique oak flooring
SnorK* So she changed her mind and now you have a pile of flooring to denail and store, aye?
That's a serious pile of flooring tho'. How long did it take to bring it up?
be adding to yer trading stockThe owner of the axe, as he released his hold on it, said that it was the apple of his eye; but I returned it sharper than I received it. It was a pleasant hillside where I worked, covered with pine woods, through which I looked out on the pond, and a small open field in the woods where pines and hickories were springing up. -Thoreau's Walden
It took two of us about six hours to get it pulled, and two hours to get the house emptied of the floors. It is a big pile of wood, with alot of nails to be removed. Any takers....????
Dear wife still thinks we can use it, so it is being stored in the shed until that day comes or the shed burns down. I'm thinking thinner soaked rags tucked in the center of the pile to aid in the reclamation effort.
Regards,
Bruce
YOur technique is essentially what I was doing. What a PIA. DW has fallen in love with the floor, even though it is really not all that special so I was trying to satisfy that part of my existence. We'll try for a little longer, but I am not optimistic
ThanksBruce
Take her to a flooring store, show her what's available.
Maybe she'll find something she likes even better, so you stop trying to save that oak.
She is well aware of what is at the flooring suppliers as I have samples from every dealer at my desk. She is just hoping that we could recycle the floors and not throw them in the dumpster.
We had a job once that was about 1600'sq. of maple t&g hardwood floor that had to go. We hated to see it thrown away, but after a day or so of not doing any better than you, we just had to rip it up with bars and throw it away. It sucked. Around here there are places you can recycle scrap wood. At least you wouldn't be throwing it away in a landfill. good luck. Rob Z
Last spring some friends and I extracted 4,000 s/f of antique oak flooring from an old school gymnasium. The oak is a mixture of white and red, it is absolutely amazing. Maybe I'm a bit too optimistic but I am sure glad we saved the flooring. My initial reaction, after seeing the floor still in tact, was to forget it. However after some assurance and persuasion from a very industrious friend, we decided to get to work. As the other responses have suggested, there is a method to removing it without busting the wood to pieces. Use a small prybar to work an end up and slowly work your way down the board with small prybar, gently raising up the front edge. Come back down the length of the board with a large prybar (we used a 48" bar) to pop the wood up and out towards your body. It takes a little work to get the motions down. Once you do it becomes easier and easier. I was even able to pry with the small bar in my left hand while following with the large bar, in my right hand, simultaneously. It took us approximately 45+man hrs to remove the wood and atleast 45-65+ man hrs to remove nails and stack the wood. We are currently trying to figure out how to get excess finish and dirt from top and sides of boards with out losing too much thickness and width. We have not had too much encouragement from peers. However I am ever optimistic that we made the right choice and encourage you to do the same. Any input on how to remove old finish from top and sides would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
Any input on how to remove old finish from top and sides would be greatly appreciated.
From the sides: a light cut on a jointer with carbide blades (lotsa sand & grit typically embedded there)
From the top: I'd wait to lay it down, then sand it flush.
Also, if we can kindly ask you to break up your post into easy to read paragraphs. It is amazing that I got to the end of it, usually I skip anything over a few lines or so.
good post, but wrong guy.
try to get the OP's attention.
Unless the floor is soemthing special, as it seems yours is, I wouldn't be putting the time into trying to save it.
I would not worry about the finish on top as that can be easily sanded when installed. The stuff on the sides is tough to extract. I took a one inch chisel and scraped the residue from the sides. Very time consuming particulary when there is 100 years of finish and miscellanous crud cemented to the edges.
Bruce
When you have it up off the floor, perhaps take it to a place that dip-strips furniture? If the pieces aren't too long, that would get the top and sides in one step.
-- J.S.
Well, as long as the top surface is intact, I wouldn't worry a second about busted tongue and busted bottom of the groove. Just shoot it down with a couple finish nails where the t&g is missing.
OK -- use stainless nails so you don't get black rings around them.
-- J.S.
The notion of shooting that many nails-probably ever other board does not sound appealing to me. I would need to set the trimmer at 150 to 200 psi or do alot of nail setting.
I used all recycled long leaf pine floors in my current house to match the addition to existing floors. About one third of the grooves were gone. I nailed the hell out of that floor and it never really set well. I guess that experience along with the labor of scratching all the buildup of crud from the edges make the option very unappealing to me.
I wish I could muster the enthusiasm for these oak floors, but they are really nothing special, except in DW's opinion-which in turn makes them special.
Bruce
A couple of years ago I had a client that wanted me to save as much of the old oak flooring as possible so she could reuse it. Her great-grandfather had put in the floors and she wanted it saved. I told her I would do it, but she would have to pay for my time, no flat price, it would end up costing her the amount of time, at my standard rate, that it took to get it done. It was nearly one inch thick, tongue and grooved, I think by hand, and according to her 80 or more years old. And, like your job it was nailed to the joist, no sub-floor. I used my sawsall and cut each nail at the tongue and took each piece out separately. So, every piece of flooring had 1/2 inch of tongue cut out every 14 to 18 inches, the joist weren't evenly spaced. I cut the nail heads out because when I tried to take them out other ways I damaged the piece. Just used an old chisel that I frequently re-sharpened to cut as close to the old nail as I could.
I am not saying it was cheap, or easy, put it got done and my client was pleased.
Edited 5/24/2007 7:35 pm ET by BilWil
I appreciate your persistance and patience. It sounds like that floor had some intrinsic value that made it worth the effort. It must be nice to have a client who could appreciate the effort to do what you did.
Bruce
Try making hardwood wedges with a slight taper and drive them under the flooring in a few spots. As the wedges work under the first and second course, it pulls the nails out of subfloor and you can seperate wood and pull the nails out. Ive used this technique with maple and it worked great, but not oak.
4-5 wedges worked on 1940s red oak flooring. Way less than 20% waste. Had enough to do my upstairs (2 bedrooms + closets, hallway & nook) with extra left over for my brother to do 2 bedrooms, a hallway & frontroom.Don't believe your brother when he says he "discussed" trimming the lilacs with his wife. I believe he is sleeping outside with Pumpkin, currently.
You are doing well. The best salvage rate I expect is 60-65% and that is better wood than you have in a narrow srtip like that.
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They are 2 1/4 strip floors directly on the floor joists.
Hey, H
Somewhere along the way I saw a pry bar that is made for prying sheathing or flooring off of 2x, http://www.thegutster.com. I bought one but needed it before it would arrive so I made one by welding up some angle and pipe I had lying around. I give a lot of credit to the guy for coming up with the idea, it works like a charm and may be of value in your situation. I hate to think of the weeks of time I would have saved if I'd had one. - r
Can't you just remove the first board (starting from the "groove" side, so as to expose the next tongue), then cut the nails that are through the tongues? That way you're essentially removing it exactly as it was installed.
Now that is a tool that would be useful. THanks for the link.
Wedges man, wedges, Sawzalling the nails?! If you value your time at $0.00 per hour, maybe. Otherwise, wedges man, wedges. Trust me, waaaaaaaay faster.
There's a reason we evolved past the chimps, you know? Lever? Inclined plane? That kinda' stuff. :-)
Edited 5/22/2007 3:56 pm ET by Mike8964
Wedges would not work because the nails flooring is nailed to the joists. No room for the wedge to go under the flooring. There is no subfloor to run the wedges on top of.
Hiker,
I tried doing the same exact thing you are when I was remodeling my house. Same white oak strips, same success rate. In the end I wound up throwing it all in the dumpster, this after storing it for a year, pulling out all the nails. It just isn't worth the effort IMHO. I applaud your desire to save and reuse it. There is so much variety of flooring out there, and oak is very common and inexpensive. I wound up buying some 4" wide oak for around $2.00 /SF and had it installed for another $2.00 a SF.
Wolfman
reclaiming for repair
This all has been very helpful!
I have several damaged spots in wood floor that is nearly 100 years old. There is a large area of wood in a closet under the hall stairs & I wanted to 'harvest' that wood to repair the main floor. It is a beautiful golden red fading to mahogany every other board so I didnt want to try and match it.
Dont have a clue if its on a subfloor or joists, but will try the wedge technique and/or the cutting around nails. I know I will probably destroy the first piece, so can anyone tell me how to determine which side is the best side to start on? (work area will be narrow & under sloping stairway, whopee!)
For the gunk on the grooves, would running the board edge along a mounted belt sander do the job?
d.
Take a look at this thread on another site. It might give you all the information you need to undertake your project-short of getting small enough to work under those stairs.
http://www.quittintime.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4301/an/0/page/0#Post4301
If you should have any other questions, feel free to ask.
Best of luck.