Replies

1. 
   Sphere | Aug 02, 2004 10:05pm | #1

   depends on the brick/morter BIG TIME...

   consider a power washer first..with care.

   If you have salmon brick, even that will make for a bad day.

    

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1. 
   ChrisCasey | Aug 02, 2004 10:20pm | #2

   I guess you are saying that a "soft" brick will get substantially worn by sandblasting.  The paint coating my brick is not flaking except in one tiny area -- will power washing remove a good coat of paint that isn't breached by chipping, flaking, blistering, etc???

1. 
   Sphere | Aug 02, 2004 10:24pm | #4

   Yes, a PW held at an acute angle can "peel" vs. abrade..a big difference..if the paint is not embedded or toothed real well..it comes off in sheets..

   Abrading is good if ya want to repaint..I assume that's not the intent..you can always SB after a good PW...

   SB is the last resort IMHO..but, as you will. 

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2. 
   RichColumbus | Aug 02, 2004 10:24pm | #3

   Turn the air WAY down and work up slowly.  Blast with only enough air to get the job done.

   Test the blasting on a hidden area first.  If you see substantial mortar erosion, or you etch the brick more than a VERY small amount.. stop and get a pro (unless you are a good mason).  Once you get an edge, work from the edge to reduce the amount of blasting that is necessary.  If you get a tough spot that just won't clear... come back to it with manual removal... don't continue to work away at it... it is amazing how fast you can pit brick.

   The chemical way IS messy, and can also damage the brick and mortar.  Heat guns take forever and are only partly effective.

3. 
   RickD | Aug 02, 2004 10:26pm | #5

   My answer would be "Peel Away 1" but I have to admit I have only used #6 and #7, and haven't tried #1 (which is specifically for masonry).  The ones I have used work pretty well as long as you leave it on a good 12-24hrs, and the paper helps.  Nice and non-toxic, you don't even really smell the stuff-  

4. 
   DANL | Aug 02, 2004 11:12pm | #6

   I have no experience with removing paint from brick, just what I've read and seen on TV handiman-type programs. But, everything I've read or seen says sand blasting is not good. The firing of brick puts a very thin, hard and almost impermeable skin on them. Sandblasting removes or damages that layer and then the brick is open to water penetration and spalling. Even walnut shells (sometimes crushed and used for the "sand") can damage it. I would guess that pressure washing could have similar problems, with the added bad effect of squirting water into the mortar and/or damaging that. I hate to be such a pessimist, but...I think once brick has been painted, unless you want to use a chemical remover, you're pretty much stuck with paint.

   I saw the other posts and those guys have actually worked with it, so maybe their techniques will work for you. Like was said,"go easy".

1. 
   Sphere | Aug 02, 2004 11:17pm | #7

   FYI..(no attack here)

   corn cob, and hulls of nuts is safe for log homes..

   PW water intrusion IS a factor, but if the brick is sound, and not already "spalled" poses not problems..

   now if the sealants at wins an doors is shot...that's a new game.

   BTW that cob'shell abrasive is real pricy.. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

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1. 
   Lenny | Aug 02, 2004 11:41pm | #9

   BTW that cob'shell abrasive is real pricy..

   Competition with the Outhouse Market???

   Is that red or white cobs??  (Course you know you need both.)

1. 
   Sphere | Aug 02, 2004 11:59pm | #13

   yuk... 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

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2. 
   ChrisCasey | Aug 02, 2004 11:42pm | #10

   Luckily, the brick in question is well protected from the elements by a large overhang (see photos) which brings me to my next question....should the newly exposed brick be sealed?  I've read that brick "must be sealed" and "must be able to breathe" --which is it??

1. 
   Sphere | Aug 02, 2004 11:51pm | #11

   Damn Son..ya still got snow?

   OK, find an edge where it's loose, blast (water) under it, at an angle..PEEL it off.

   I would not seal, myself..but again..somone will say something different.

   It really depends on the porsity of the brick/mortar and the degradation already occurred...you gotta see what ya got there.

   tuff call, for sure. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

2. 
   RichColumbus | Aug 03, 2004 12:19am | #14

   This may help in your decision.

   http://www.bia.org/BIA/technotes/t20.htm

   A lot of info... but scroll down to the "paint" section.  It also provides some guidance on sandblasting.

3. 
   DavidxDoud | Aug 03, 2004 04:06am | #15

   Chris,  for the last month I've been watching (drive by) a chemical peel taking place on a late 19th century story and a half - I don't know the details of the process,  but there is a 'paper' wrap that resides over the chem for a few days - it's done a beautiful job - this thing had several coats with the last color being pink - now looks very fresh -

   I sandblasted two sides of a one room school house in an earlier life - I wouldn't recommend it,  either from the operator standpoint or the results standpoint - nasty,  somewhat dangerous job and sand gets everywhere (places you won't believe)  - the surface gets compromised,  which in this case was no big deal since the walls were surrounded by building additions - it did look better that paint (puke green) - I wouldn't do it to a weather exposed surface,  expecially since you have the freeze/thaw thing going on - "there's enough for everyone"

1. 
   ClevelandEd | Aug 03, 2004 05:14am | #16

   I used to live in Toronto, Canada.  It's a city with tens of thousands of older brick houses.  People started cleaning the brick on all of the houses.  I was amazed at the damage often done with the sandblasting.  I am talking about major major damage, not subtle damage.  Yet chemically cleaned houses never had that any of that visible damage.

2. 
   FastEddie1 | Aug 03, 2004 07:11am | #17

   After you sandblast your brick, you need to seal it with a good coat of paint.

   Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!"  Then get busy and find out how to do it.  T. Roosevelt

3. 
   DANL | Aug 02, 2004 11:57pm | #12

   I liked your reply--I generally don't take exception to constructive criticism. I figure I don't know everything (quite). I generally have an open mind, though, as someone once said, "not so open my brain falls out." I did sort of snap at another poster on another question, and I feel regret for it--I think he was exasperated at what he thought was my smarty pants attitude or something. That's why I use so many smiley faces--letting people know I'm not all that serious and mean them no harm. Maybe I should let them sniff the back of my hand before I say anything? ;-)

   (Back when I was a planner, I was in a meeting and was forced to answer a question posed by a judge that put the prosecutor in a bad light. That prosecutor turned red, cursed me out, called me all sorts of names. I was shocked, but didn't respond. But if I ever commit a crime in Oceana County, I'm toast! After the meeting another guy said to me, "I've never seen the prosecutor even raise his voice before!" I said, "I just seem to bring out the best in people.")

2. 
   Lenny | Aug 02, 2004 11:38pm | #8

   My suggestion...leave the lasting to the pros....the selection of blasting media in probably the most important aspect of blasting.  Silica sand, minerial grit of various seive sizes, shells, and slag to name a few.

   I saw a restoration job in Mich just after someone "blasted" several coats of paint off wood siding...from a distance couldn't tell from that any color had been removed.  Looking closer, the soft part of the grain was 1/16" or more deed, nail heads stuck up like mushrooms....half of nails were turned into finishing nails where the blasting had removed the head.  A real nite mare, don't know why he didn't stop after the first 20 sq ft.

   I'm sure the mortar joint will be eroded about 10 times the rate of the brick.  Earlier comment obout the hardened surface on a fired brick is correct.  Same concept kept me from doing something on my house... I have very faint white stain on the brick where the trim/shutters, gable end paint chalked and washed down.  Tried several things to remove it...no luck... just gonna live with it for now.

5. 
   4Lorn1 | Aug 03, 2004 07:38am | #18

   No expert but my understanding is that bricks have a hard outer shell with a much softer center. The difference between the shell and center on newer bricks is less extreme but it remains substantial.

   Reading about bricks I understand that old bricks were not fired as hot. This makes the centers much softer than modern bricks and the outer surfaces less resistant to abrasion.

   The reason this matters is that once the outer shell is broken the brick can deteriorate rapidly. Particularly if exposed to water and the freeze/thaw cycles common to the northern states.

1. 
   Sphere | Aug 03, 2004 01:47pm | #19

   Actually, not only were old bricks not fired as hot, the ones further from the charcoal were very much softer..the ones in the center of the stack nearest the intense heat were used more for the exterior work , due to the 'glaze' that developed on the surface.

   I actually had the opertunity to participate in brick making..not a fun day in the mud like it sounds. 

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1. 
   4Lorn1 | Aug 04, 2004 01:16am | #20

   Getting to make bricks sounds like a blast. Not many people have the knowledge to actually manufacture their own building materials. Sure some go out and mill their wood but as good as this is it is not like they made the wood itself.

   Probably a lot of work to make enough bricks for a house but in small doses it would be an interesting learning experience. I hadn't thought about the variable distance of the stacked bricks to the fire. A good explanation as to the variable nature of brick hardness and durability.

1. 
   Sphere | Aug 04, 2004 01:48am | #21

   Maybe working a summer at Colonial Williamsburg, wasn't so misspent after all..lol

   Bricks were one of the many things I got to screw up. 

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1. 
   DavidxDoud | Aug 04, 2004 02:04am | #22

   we put our kids in the mudpit when we visited - - a good use of pubescent energy..."there's enough for everyone"

2. 
   4Lorn1 | Aug 04, 2004 03:02am | #23

   I have been to Colonial Williamsburg a couple of times. I once had a short conversation with a blacksmith about how he got the job of playing, being, an apprentice and working to becoming the master smith. He said that there were something like a thousand applications for the position. I figured it was like going to Yale. Only an elite few that had made it the goal of their lives and usually had family ties assuring consideration.

   I have vaguely considered a homestead based on such practices. What did the colonial day tradesmen use for PCs, telephones. Was the internet as crowded?

3. 
   Sphere | Aug 04, 2004 03:10am | #24

   LOL....

   the internet was a horseman..and loud horns.

   I was fortunate to be there...but lemme tell ya, it was a labor of love..pay was dismal..I was commuting on greyhound back to Pa. for my weekends which were Mon,and Tues,.

   Bus fare about blew my paycheck..

   Them were the days...98 degrees and 98% humidity, my wife made my colonial garb, and she knew little about cool fabrics and colors..I basically stewed in my own juices. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

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4. 
   Jay72 | Aug 04, 2004 03:34am | #25

   When I was in college obtaining a degree in Historic Preservation I had a proffesor who loved to say

   " Sandblasting historic brick is like scrubbing your baby's bottom with steelwool"

   I had occasion to blast 1500 lbs of "black beauty" slag on an interior and very old brick wall to remove tar. The wall in question was at one time an exterior and below grade wall that was now inside a very neat commercial renovation that I was involved in and it was fun for the first 5 minutes. After that it sucked.

   I know your brick is not historic but sandblasting even 20th century brick could open you up to some seroius spalling and water intrusion issues not to mention vaporizing paint that might be full of lead.

   Good luck, regardless of your tack, Jay