Replies

1. 
   mark_cadioli | Jan 09, 2001 11:06am | #1

   *
   Hello Ralph

   Do you have total access from the side that doesn't have wallpaper? Need to keep vibration to a minimum. I'd make judicious use of an angle grinder with a diamond blade to make the initial cuts for the opening on the wallpapered side. ( with a bit of perseverance the diamond blade will also cut throught the lath..wince!) Then use the diamond blade to cut away the bond from the lath to the plaster. Sharp handsaw will come in handy. I'd tack a temp batten across the cripples to minimize movement whilst cutting through.

   Kind regards

   mark

1. 
   David_Doud | Jan 09, 2001 05:35pm | #2

   *I would expect the lath nails to penetrate about 3/4" into the stud - take your skilsaw and cut 3" deep from the back side (assuming 3 1/2" studs), split off the back of the stud with a chisel from below, clean up the splits to a line with a grinder and 36 grit disk, leaving 1/2" of stud supporting the lath and plaster - 3" of header should then fit nicely behind the intact lath and plaster-

1. 
   John_Sprung | Jan 09, 2001 09:39pm | #3

   *Given access to the key side of the plaster to be preserved, what I've done in the past is to carefully pull away loose or broken keys, and then squirt yellow woodworking glue in wherever I can to solidify the bond between the plaster and the lath. As to cutting thru the plaster from the side to be preserved, I use a diamond blade in a little 12 volt Makita saw, and go as deep as I can without burning the blade against the wood lath. Then I use a hand grout saw, diamond blade, to continue down to the lath and clean out the corners. Make another pass with the Makita 3/4" below the finish cut, and break out that little strip of plaster with a stiff putty knife. Now you can safely demo the rest of the old plaster. Of course, leave the sawzall on the truck, cut everything with circulars or by hand. Multiple passes widening the kerf before you go deeper will keep the intensity of the vibration to a minimum. Intensity seems to do more harm than duration, so take your time -- and of course charge accordingly. -- J.S.

1. 
   Jeff_J._Buck | Jan 10, 2001 12:43am | #4

   *Not sure what you are trying to do. Are you saying the wallpaper/plaster will have their studs cut away and the wallpaper/plaster "skin" be left hanging till the beam is put up....then the "skin" will be affixed to the beam? If so........wow....yer kinda screwed! I like the idea of just cutting and leaving 1/2 inch of the sduts for support. The plaster will be plenty strong(if in good shape) to hold it's own weight.....but the problem is how to pry the cut studs off the back w/o disturbing the plaster. Maybe a rotozip with the cutting wheel attachment. Sawzaw would probably grab the last nail and bring the whole thing down. Or as said above, a small grinder. Try plugging yer lazer level into 220v and see if it'll cut thru a stu and a few old nails. OK, get the grinder, and cut up under the bottom of the stud, trying to get any nails. Now cut off the stud botom at what ever depth the grinder was able to hit. Repeat process, working your way up to the desired height. Probably gotta go up 1 1/2 in at a time or so, slow and painful, but should be safe. Did any of this make sense to anyone but me? Jeff

1. 
   Ralph_Wicklund | Jan 10, 2001 08:34am | #5

   *Many thanks to all. This is the kind of stuff that almost crumbles if you look sideways at it (well, not that bad). There's not hair one in the mix even though this place is as old as our place was in CT. Maybe they couldn't find any horses in Florida at the turn of the century.I do like the idea of leaving a half inch of stud to maintain the lath. Three inches is more than enough bearing.And the wallpaper is not that old and not particularly good looking but the pattern is no longer available and since this is what the customer wants, this is what the customer gets. Believe me, if I could have found the paper, I would have paid for it as well as the installation to avoid this tedious problem. Fortunately, I have full access to the other side of the wall and plenty of room for temporary supports on the exposed ceiling joists while I make sawdust and preserve that d*** wallpaper.

2. 
   andrew_d | Jan 13, 2001 08:54am | #6

   *... and construction adhesive to keep it from moving around ...Are you worried the header might settle later under the load? just curious.

3. 
   Jeff_J._Buck | Jan 13, 2001 08:59am | #7

   *So Ralph......what'd ya do? After you learn to post a pic....show us! Jeff

4. 
   Stephen_Hazlett | Jan 13, 2001 02:33pm | #8

   *I am not sure I fully understand the situation,but is their any chance you can glue/adhesive/foam osb on the back of the lath to help lock everything in place?

5. 
   Ralph_Wicklund | Jan 19, 2001 05:58am | #9

   *It worked - pictures to prove house still standing. Used suggested method of cutting almost through studs and cripples, leaving half inch to hold lath, and whacking off the waste with a wide chisel. Only lost a little of the keying. I will shoot some of that tenacious expanding foam up between the header and the wall. That should bond the plaster, lath and the header to restore some of the integrity lost during the wall shaking.After I went to the trouble of shoring the ceiling, carefully cutting out the studs and waste and putting in that monster header I realized the section I removed had shrunk away from the double top plate and was actually supporting NOTHING. The surrounding framing, which included the stair stringer, along with the rock solid lath and plaster of the whole house was not allowing ANY motion whatsoever. It would probably been safe to leave the header out, but not a smart or proper practice.

6. 
   David_Doud | Jan 22, 2001 06:36am | #10

   *Happy you were able to save the paper - our civilization would be poorer for it's demise - can't understand why the manufacturer would let that pattern go - But please - i 'whacking off the waste'?Better to say you removed the hanging chad

7. 
   Mike_Smith | Jan 22, 2001 06:52am | #11

   *great pictures , ralph...you striking for "backframer of the year " award ?

2. 
   Ralph_Wicklund | Jan 22, 2001 06:52am | #12

   *
   I'm enlarging a kitchen by demoing two side by side adjacent rooms, a former pantry and a utility room. I have to reheader the new opening (bearing wall, two stories) since the two doors and the wall and supporting studs between the doors are history. The header is not the problem, but the wall above the new wider cased opening facing the original kitchen area must not be damaged (irreplaceable wallpaper). The problem is keyed plaster over wood lath. When I put in the new header I have to shorten all the cripples above. How do I keep the plaster and keying intact and not lose the wall integrity. I envision the plaster delaminating from the lath and taking the wallpaper with it.

   Will extra prayer help or does someone have the magic formula to keep the plaster on while I'm sawing off the supporting 2x's?