Greetings All,
I’m new to the Group and trust you’ll put up with my rookyness. I’m a Metalwork Teacher in Comox B.C Canada who has been assigned to teach Construction. I’m not without skills in this area as I have owned and operated a Framing Company and have built a number of houses.
My question follows: As an initial project for my class I have asked them to design and construct a sawhorse. As we all know this is often an assignment given to a new person on the job site as a means of measuring his or her ability.
Do you have and are you willing to share with my students plans, ideas and or observations in regard to what makes a good sawhorse?
Thanks and Regards
Replies
One of the very recent issues of FHB, or maybe FWW, had an article on horses. Actually it was FWW and the author was Chris Becksvort (sp) who makes Shaker furniture in Maine. The purpose oif the article was to show three different styles and their usefullness vs cost...one was adjustable in height. Now that I think about it, there was an article in FHB a couple of years ago written just for your purpose...the article started off talking about hasving new guys build a horse to see what their skills were. Do a search on the FWW and FHB home pages and see what you find. (I find that the search functions there really suck, but maybe you'll have better luck.)
As to your rookiness, you have almost passed the test. So far you have told us where you are, what you do, and explained your question thoroughly. For the final test, tell us how many uses you have for sheetrock screws.
Do it right, or do it twice.
Edited 2/11/2003 12:51:33 AM ET by ELCID72
Betcha if you gave Lee Valley in Vancouver a call, they'd still have a copy of that FWW..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Thanks to all who replied,
It will take a day or two to digest all your ideas and suggestions. I plan to present to the class an old hacked up sawhorse, one made with purchased metal brackets, a piece of ______ constucted by last year's class ,which I plan to burn behind the shop, and a top quality sawhorse which took me about two hours to mill and assemble from rough donated material. This program was in real trouble as the previous instructor struggled.
Tomorrow we'll talk about selecting a building site and locating the house on the site. We'll breakout material and begin to machine it into usable stock. I know this would never be done on the jobsite but times are tough and there's not a lot of money available.
Thanks again and keep the info coming
ps. A bag of Sheetrock Screws ( we call it Drywall ) could be used for a door stop :-}
Lairdo ..... Check with Habitat for Humanity in your area they will sometimes share there overstocked materials with you. H forH would also be a good extra credit for your students if they could give a report on what they did. I try to keep materials thtat are left over on the job and pass them on to our High School ,my way of recycling . Most builders would be happy to give you the material that's left over instead of them going into the dumpster. You can change one young person's life forever. With great respect ....Nails
lairdo.. we build all our horses to 30" top.. which happens to be the same ht. as the folding sheetmetal ones when you screw a flat 2x4 to their tops...
we make them up in pairs... one 38" wide... one 34" wide so they can stack in pairs..
we also name them and date them on the bottom... right now we have 7 pairs on our current job... two of them are the new sheetmetal folding
here's part of our stable....
silver('96) stacked on seattle slew ('92)..
silver's belly..
seattleslew ('92) ...rode hard and put away wet...
and trigger ('85) with one of the new fangled sheetmetal hosses ('00)
my pet peeves ?.. people using them as test blocks for the nail guns... & carps cutting into their backs with their sawsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Here's a pic showing how I make more sawhorses.If I won the lottery, I wouldn't be one of those people who immediately quit their jobs. I'd make my boss's life a living hell for a week or two first.
colts...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Greetings,
And on this note Gentlemen and others I would assume the thread is broken.
And as has been said. " Thanks for your contribution". Have a nice day.
Regards,
Lairdo
ackshally lairdo.. the thread has probably just begun.. they seem to take on a life of their ownMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
While I understand what you're saying the photos that you forwarded are not what I would call inspiring to students that are about to design, layout, cut and assemble projects for marks. Send me photos of those horses before use and I would be happy to present your designs to my class as classic examples of good designs.
Regards,
Lairdo
sorry.. no can do....
my point is the time spent building good wooden sawhorses is not wasted.. some of ours are 20 years old.. and a pair will still hold a 1/2 tonMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
All,
OK, the thread continues. The material I have provided for construction of these sawhorses is not 2" nominal framing stock ie 2 X 6 and 2 X 4 which is what you and I would normaly use. The previous shop teacher ( remember the guy who struggled ) did some things right. He was able to to acquire for minimal cost a lift of random cut Yellow Cedar which has been air dried for almost a year. Many of you in the States may be unfamiliar with this product. It is choice ! Much harder with close grain it does not resemble Red Cedar. Rough sawn in random dimensions with wane on most pieces it gives the kids an excellent opportunity to learn the techniques required to break out rough sawn stock. Today, most have reduced material into managable size. The Course Outline has recently been changed from Construction to Construction and Joinery and therefore I am teaching a combination of Construction and furniture Construction ! These are going to be good looking sawHorses!!
Regards
The best looking sawhorse I ever saw was in a sawhorse survey article in FHB #103. It was made of five pieces of teak. The four legs were attached to the back with sliding dovetails, and it had no fasteners. If you can find a copy of that issue, it might be valuable for your class even if none of your students wants to make that particular design.
I'd forgotten that issue [#103]. Thanks for reminding me. How many ways can you build a sawhorse?
It'll make a good project for some starters. Make them think.
Good luck Lairdo.
here's another - I've got two heights - 24" and 32" - a friend and I spent a day (1992) making several sets of these for ourselves and friends - they were/are most appreciated gifts - these are strong and multi-purpose, the stretcher lets one step up - the flat top is handier than the 2X's on edge - they do nest, but if one of the pair were a little shorter so as to fit within the gussets of the long one, they would nest better - admittedly clunky for hauling in a van, but such is life... if doing over, besides the nesting detail, I'd have used A/C plywood for gussets instead of CDX -
David,
The attachments forwarded are classic designs. Students have designed ( and not copied from the Net I hope ) horses which are very similar. Some variations include legs set under the top and attached with screws driven down through the top. Lower leg braces let into 2" Nominal legs. End gussets from plywood, and no overhang on the top member ( so you can stand on the end ) are all variations that seem to work. Compound angle of choice seems to be 15 and 15.
Regards
Lairdo,
and no overhang on the top member ( so you can stand on the end ) are all variations that seem to work.
When the end of the overhang is plumb up from the bottom of the leg, you can stand or load the end of the top without it keeling over. So, overhang of the top is possible. Some kind of physics there I guess. Something to bring up in the class maybe.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I do mine with a 2x6 joist type top for strength, replaceable saw ands clamp upper, plywood gusset, and 2x4 legs. The fifteen degreee angle at the sides gives strength and stability but I only offset seven degrees at the ends. That way, the legs aren't sticking out too far and tripping anyone.
I forgot to draw it in but there is a single midspan joist 2x4 attached to the plywood gussets with glue and screws so I guess the plywood is actually larger than I drew it.
I have some in service since about '94 and these have had a full truck load of hardwood flooring stcked on them once for a week with no groans or failure..
Excellence is its own reward!
Like so..
Excellence is its own reward!
All,
Thanks for all the input re sawhorses. New topics to follow,
Regards,
I work for a company that makes all sorts of stuff out of wood, metals and plastics. You can see what we do by clicking on the link below.
http://www.jppattern.com
We have about a dozen pair of these saw horses that have been in heavy service for nearly forty years. I have never seen any similar. They are made of maple and routinely have steel dies in excess of 2000lbs. placed on them. Perhaps a lighter weight version of this design might work for you. Also, we just built a set of similar ones out of aluminum. Pricey, but nearly indestructible.
Here's one that passed me on the expressway going 65 (two tie downs aren't enough, no one hurt thank goodness) about 15 years ago. Still in the stable, new top cutboards of course. 1x legs, less wt, still strong. Cant the legs back so the end of the top is plumb w/ the bottom of the leg, no tip-over with load. At the stage your class is in, some pride can be taken in making sawhorses that perform and last. You can interject some physics in there I'm sure. If you pound together something like those seen on framing sites, yeah sure, time might be better served building something else. But it's a start, hard to build a house w/o em. Best of luck.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
>>ps. A bag of Sheetrock Screws ( we call it Drywall ) could be used for a door stop :-}
You passed. ELCID72 was trying to trick you into saying that you would use drywall screws to assemble your horses. Tricky, tricky.
Tom
Lairdo, the saw horses I use have an interesting story. The guy that invented them had worked for years at a ladder factory. He would take home wood from the dumpster. By the time he retired he had a warehouse full of short ladder pieces. He invented this saw horse to use up the pieces, then got so busy he had to retire again. This was a feature story in the Bellsaw Bulletin. When I bought them they were 21$ a pair.
I carry three sets of these in "world's fullest van". I have 4 foot tops for one set. They are the best I have ever seen. When new they were supposed to hold 3000 lb each. I have used them for over 25 years with no problem.
Boxed up in storage somewhere, I have a set of my Grandad's Carpentry Apprentice texts circa 1912. One of the first projects for a new apprentice was to make a set of horses...lot to be learned there about angles, using a good handsaw, etc. I'll put some effort into digging the books out and scanning the appropriate mat'l for you.
Jules Quaver for President 2004
Lairdo,
Welcome aboard.
Do you have and are you willing to share with my students plans, ideas and or observations in regard to what makes a good sawhorse?
What makes a good saw horse to me is
A- portability
B- "sturdiness"
C-versatility, such as height adjustment of individual legs or sides.
Those are three of the most important features to me.
As far as plans for a set....I don't have any but I think for your students that should be their responsibility. To come up with their own set of plans from their imaginations.
See how creative they can get
Let us know how it goes.
BE well
Namaste
Andy
"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
To come up with their own set of plans from their imaginations. That's not a bad idea. Why don't you go to a construction site, pick up an old used & abused horse, take it into class as an example, and tell them to design something improved.
Do it right, or do it twice.
Good to here from a teacher that was a framer, I'm looking forward to future posts of how your doing. Sawhorses bah , they are for old men (i'm 57) and pregnant women. If they need sawhorse's havethem go to Menards ,pick up a couple of metal folding horses slap a couple of 2x6s on top for clamping purposes' and can still get them in the van/truck for the next job. If you can teach them how to frame a RO it will give them a lot more feeling of how they could be benificial to the building industry. The first question I ask the young ones is how long is a cripple/trimer coincedently I ask one that question he said "I dunno but I can build a set of saw horse's". Seriously, the few that will join us in the future will have a bigger self worth if you make them feel they know something about what goes on out in the mud ,the blood and the beer. Tell them some stories and they will decide which way to go, remember your the old guy on the crew (students) teach them like you did on the job. After seeing your consideration to ask your question ,I'm sure , if you send them to me I'll hire them. Be kind to yourself.
hey nails..better upgrade your profile....whatcha have another birthday? Six years older n me ol man....so how do those next six effect us, or is that another thread....lol?
Be old
Namaste
51 andy"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Hey A,C. Namaste, sure do like what it stands for ,said it first ,I think it's supposed to be said at the ending. As for the last six years and all the years before, well....the worst I ever had was wonderful......be kind to yourself...Nails
I'm with the guy who said get the steel folding ones from the hardware store and teach them something else.
When I'm forced to make a horse, I make what I've heard called a timber-framer's horse. Take three 2x4's and srew or nail them together into an I-beam. The legs tuck under the top "flange" and cant out past the bottom flange, creating just the right angle. Use a bevel-square to copy that agle and trim the tops and bottoms of the legs into a parallelagram. Screw it all together and you are done. It'll hold a ton of weight, and you can stack the two on top of each other. Side gussets are optional. I've never found them necessary. They go together really really quickly.
But like I said, get the steel folding ones. Anything else takes up far too much real-estate in the truck.
Steve
Lairdo........ On second thought , after posting what was important to me, have the students get on Breaktime and read, read , read.
Working Alone, Tips and Techniques for Solo Building by John Carrol details a well built sawhorse. Lots of other great tips too- that boy can think of more uses for a clamp than anyone I know.
From one newby to another, "Welcome aboard."
Kevin Halliburton
"The man who can make hard things easy is the educator." -Ralph Waldo Emmerson-
"The man who can make hard things easy is the educator." -Ralph Waldo Emmerson
"The man who can make easy things hard is the consultant." -RT
Lairdo, the leg angle of sawhorse is 13 degrees. Thats about all you need to know since most carpenters build their horses to suit their own height and working habits. Its also handy to build them with a hook on the side to hold your saw. Shelves are nice but not the best for jobsite work because they don't stack well. There are break down designs that some guys/gals use but my personal preference is the plastic foldup horses that sell for about 30.00 each. These fold up nicely and go from job to job easily in the back of a truck.
When I know I'm going to be on a job site for more than a couple of days, I build a set of horses from wood in the scrap pile. This way if they get trashed or borrowed I just make more and don't worry about them. It takes me about a 1/2 hour to make a set with a screw gun, a few screws and a skill saw.
http://diynet.com/DIY/article/0,2058,2244,00.html
Half way down the page is the plan for a sawhore.
Forget those metal and plastic horses, too flimsy. They are only for light work. The standard is just like the photo from Calvin. Forget screws too. Just use nails. Keep the nails low though so you can kerf them without hitting a nail. I like a 1x stretcher half way up the legs for a step. 1x legs keep them light and I like 11 degree angles both ways. Plywood gussets at each end stabilize everything. Assemble the horses on a flat floor and not the dirt so they won't be cattwhompus. A horn on one horse to hang my skillsaw is nice. I also attach a cleat on one leg to hang a framing square. A power strip fastened to a leg is also handy. Horses should be strong enough to hold heavy beams and support your miter saw setup. They don't fit well in the back of a truck so I usually tie them on to my lumber rack. Looks like the Clampetts on the move between jobs.
Myci,
I started to write my own response and then read yours.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
I'm not talking about the flimsy metal foldup horses. Those are indeed junk. I like the heavy gauge steel ones. You could drive a truck over 'em and not hurt them. I forget what the brand is. They are orange n color (sometimes yellow) and come int two varieties, one with an adjustable leg height and one without. I like to keep it really simple. I prefer the ones without the hight adjustment. Nothing wrong with a nice set of wooden horses, I've just got better things to do with the space in my truck. Give me the fold-ups any day of the week.
It's like the really snazzy outfeed roller that I built ten years ago from a plan in FWW. It works great, and is a marvel of mortises, hidden threaded rods and lap joints, but it's big and bulky, so it sits in the shop and never gets taken anywhere. The handy little fold-up metal outfeed roller is the go-to-guy for field work, just like the fold-up horses.
But then again, I actually prefer a one-button mouse. K.I.S.S.
Steve
Fulton Industries makes the orange horses. I bought a pair after I could no longer find the "Metal Mules" I used for years. Making wood horses may be a good shop project but when you need portability and minimum storage space, metal is the way. How many still use a "Yankee screwdriver " in lieu of a cordless screw gun. Everything has it's place.
Steve C
Check out FHB #103 / July 1996