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I saw a guy once that clamped a plank to 2 2' stepladders.
2x10 screwed to two upside down 5 gallon drywall buckets (buckets of course empty).
2by screwed to 2 milk crates...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I use an extendable plank that goes from 8 to 13 feet. I put the plank on a gorilla ladder from home cheapo. The laddder came with brackets to make it into two 'A' frame ladders about 3 feet tall. The extendable plank is nice because I don't have to worry about brining a long wooden plank in the house and it usually fits the length of wall I'm working on.
A Baker II type scaffold:
View Image
Works great for interior applications. Rolls sweetly, fits in a 32" doorway, can be stacked (up to two, more with outriggers), and can easily be set up by one person. Easily adjustable to whatever height you need. About $350 at better scaffold supply houses.
Edited 5/22/2008 6:58 pm ET by peteshlagor
That is the best way we have found
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yup. You never realize how much you need one of those rigs until you own one.Then you wonder why the heck didn't I get one ten years ago!
we use the baker also Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
They're really versitile.
My wife uses it to clean the crystal chandillers.
My landscper uses it to trim my trees.
X-mas lites, painting inside and out, whatever.
They should be standard with owning a home.
do you ever get to use it???
or did you have to get another???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
You got me. I do have two.
I use an aluminum extension plank, on 2 of the folding drywall benches.
Since I'm pretty tall, I can reach 9" by stretching a bit.
I like scaffolding for crown so I can have easy access to the entire length for fitting and nailing.
I dont know why more carps dont use drywall benches. Ill never understand it along with stilts.
Tim
Stilts no. Benches yes...they should. I never invested in them because I didn't want to transport them. I was working rough though and I could erect a simple scaffold by picking up two scraps and shooting them to a wall. Set the step ladder in the middle of the room and I'd have up to 28' feet of scaffolding erected in the same amount of time that it would take to walk out to the truck to get the drywallers benches. They would be perfect for trimmers though. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I thought we were talking about interior.
Drywall benches fold up tight . Four sets will fit into the trunk of a pinto. Add extensions. The question was for 9 to 10 foot ceilings I thought .
Stilts are better if theres a cut man walking on the ground.
Bakers are ok but they are limited for movement and access . Its hard to get in and out of them many times .
Step ladders do a number of different things if the situation adresses their use like room to sit them up and take them down. Overall they are conditional to carry scaffold boards.
Walk ups are the best if they dont get over extended . They will do up to 10 ft very well. Bakers and stacks go 12 ft and up. The thing thats duo best about drywall benches is they are a platform that can be used to hold scaffold boards and be used alone . They offer quick mount and dismount . With a set of 5 walkups you can keep moving continually on boards with out stopping . They get a little expensive but they pay for themselves quickly in saved time .
Tim
Use to use stilts for a lot of things, guess I'm getting to old for them..gave them awayThe drywall benches are to dang expensive, so I use a couple of the folding benches from Home Depot. 40 bucks and they work great
Barry E-Remodeler
The HD ones are the benches I was talking about. Lightweight, strong, and fairly cheap. I don't know what the difference is between them, and the expensive drywall benches, but I don't really care, either.
about $200.00 that's all I need to knowthe new ones at HD even have the adjustable legs.
Barry E-Remodeler
We get to do some ten foot ceilings which makes the Bakers a nicer choice than the SR bench. Also, it is a rack to hang tool belts on at lunch time, and it stays there to have a rolling rack to stack the trim moldings into when it is time to dress the room up. There have been jobs where it went in the room for the electricians, and stayed there for the insulators, rockers, and right on up through the crown paint touch-up.By the time it gets to leave the room, it breaks out into tears and has to hug every wall a long good-bye
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If you ever run across a used pair of walkups , at a cheap price , write the check. Then order the extensions .
I can see why someone wouldnt order new ones . Ive bought them for 50 a piece and resold them. Ive paid 100 each for next to new ones with extensions which is cheap.
Unless youve owned a set youll never know . I like bakers just fine and regular 5x5s with rollers too . I like ladders , stilts , walk boards , and all kinds of tools . Ive got um all. Im a scaffold freak. I did drywall and painting for a living . Getting my butt over a bunch of ground in a short amount of time was a good idea . Ive kept all that stuff even though I havent done that stuff for a living in 16 or so years. So Ive used all the stuff for different jobs . I can match Doug and load a trailer load of ladders and scaffolds which is my favorite method outside and doing stairways . I simply love it all.
If I was doing 10 ft crown and felt the need for speed Id load the stilts and the walkups . If I was gonna leave the stuff on the job for everyone to use Id load the bakers if I did in fact have help. I would not use ladders . Ladders are like grandma . [sorry Doug and Jim] I wont use bakers alone either .
Tim
Tim,I'd cut Doug and Jim some slack...I've found ladders can be quite useful when working with crown......they can hold the stuff for you...makes it easy to reach from the walk planks or scaffolding. ;o)
Brian
I dont spend an hour in a typical room installing crown, thats if I'm alone, with two guys it's like sledge said, 20 minutes.
I doubt you can bring all that stuff into a room in less time then 20 minutes.
This is course all in good fun, what ever you do to make a job work for you is how you should do it. I ran crown in 6 rooms the other day, all by myself, didnt take the whole day either. No way I could have done that if I was moving all that extra stuff around with me.
I have a challenge out to Mooney but I'm pretty sure he and I wont get together to see who's actually right! :)
I dont like all that extra stuff around, I can install crown pretty damn fast and all the tools I need are on me, plus the ladder of course!
I've never pushed my methods on anybody cause we all need to find a system, yours seams to work good for you and mine for me. Thats what makes this place what it is, a lot of ideas and you get to pick the ones you like and discard the others.
Doug
Do you cut, cope, and install in that "less than an hour" too?
How much caulk do you have to use? What about stain grade? 9' ceiling?
Oh Oh...that was an underhanded remark. Not called for. I wouldn't see why it should take more than that for a simple room...no caulk needed. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Well, to some of us, that claim seems magical. To me, it'd take three days. And the carps I've hired in the past seem to think so too! Maybe it's time to stop the hourly rate?
I wonder if I'm the only one that thought it?
Edited 5/26/2008 8:04 pm ET by peteshlagor
Edited 5/26/2008 8:05 pm ET by peteshlagor
what's so magical about it? It's what he does for a livingand he's from Iowaand he's talking a standard crown. I have a trim carpenter friend who spent 3 years trimming one house. One room had crown that had 21 pieces 18' high. I don't think we're talking the same detail
Barry E-Remodeler
I thought he was in Texas.
Where did he move to?
My absent mind is remembering somthing about this now . Not enough though.
Tim
he returned to Iowa a few months ago.
Barry E-Remodeler
he returned to Iowa a few months ago.
Two years ago come Sept. but thanks for noticing!
Doug
Well, to some of us, that claim seems magical.
Well then were a bunch of freaking magicians out here! How many guys do you want to see that can install a standard room, something in the 12' square department, 8 or 9' ceilings, you pick, can find you guys all day long that can do that in an hour. Not hack work either, nice tight joints.
I dont bid jobs by the hour so I'm not offering to install any crown in anybodies house for an hours worth of pay. I know there is time for set up and all that other jazz. I do know that I can do what I say, sorry that it would take you three days to do the same that I can in one, not my problem?
Doug
You still got your coping videos?
Lemme finish what I started just cause.
Theres nothing wrong with the walk up you posted as long as your doing 8 ft stuff and your head dont need to be there . It would make a good coping bench on the run as well. I use mine as temp saw horses sometimes if they are there. Its a good work staion to refit somthing with out walking back out to the garage.
Ok here goes.
This is what I have 5 of ;
<!----><!----><!---->View Image <!----><!---->
Wal-Board Walk-Up Bench
Ive got extensions for them like I said . This is the new sure bench with an extra step;
<!----><!---->View Image <!----><!---->
Sur-Bench 3000
Next post.
Tim
Edited 5/27/2008 1:17 pm by Mooney
I was afraid I couldnt get all of it in the last one .
If you look at the sure bench youll see the extra step. I havent tried them but it looks too steep for a smooth mount especially with a piece of 12 ft rock over my head. Now for a young guy Im not sure but I think I would have had some issues younger.
But this thread is about installing crown. Lets take movement that we normally would be doing . I would have both hands full but I could look down. I would come up with the trim in a cradle for balance in one arm. The gun in the other hand . I suppose I could have the gun hanging on my belt . The trim could be placed on the other side of the benches and rested on the step closet to the wall. Ive done that a lot . Then you could install a nail in the wall. On a 10 ft ceiling this is the walkup set up Id have :
................ ................... =two tall walkups against the working wall.
.................... One short legged walk up adjusted where the steps are the same going up. More like climbing stairs . You dont need your hands for support . That set up is comfortable for 12 ft to 14 ft of wall . 16 ft max figgures two feet off the corners and 3 ft of space between walkups. MInimum is 8 ft . Turned in an L shortens the wall and starts the next wall.
That is very comfortable for 50 yr old men.
Tim
Tim
I talked to the drywallers that are taping another house that we are remodeling, they are going to leave me their walkups for a short spell so that I can give em a try, I had to give away one of my wooden handled sanding pole's to seal the deal but what the hell am I going to do with two of them anyway, never going to wear one of them out!
I'm going to give this walkup thing a shot, I'm not that hard headed!<G>
I seen there's and they are more like the ones that you pictured, not like the cheapy that I showed.
My first tool review coming up!
Doug
One more .
Drywall style going full speed.
This is how I use 5 walkups .
The set up I gave plus two more tall legged ones and a paint ladder .
Extra guy .
I run the crown alone kinda. .
As I come up with the crown he holds one end . I tack it and hold the tape for his next cut going down the next wall. Hes gone , Im nailing off . Im caulking and filling . First one back moves the first walkups to the next wall . Ideally I never come down. If IM not done he hangs the next one and tacks it .
I measure drywall with out help but Im not gutsy enough for crown.
Guy on stilts can do all the measuring and hanging . He reccords measurements. If he catches up he sits on his arse. Hes deserved it .
One ladder with guy on stilts.
Tim
One ladder with guy on stilts.
The ultimate team!
Doug
Doug, a thought just came to my head as I read Tim's "working alone" comment.You mentioned that you use a piece of tin as a helper. I didn't give it much thought but this just entered my mind: I almost always work alone when I'm framing, including doing all sorts of exterior trim. One of my regular tricks to hold something up at the other end was to just lean a chunk of wood at the point I needed holder.To translate that into trim work, I'd probaby just lean a piece of lumber up, cut to length, at the other end of the crown. I'd likely use a piece of base, with some extra trappings nailed to it, and then cut it to the exact length I needed/wanted to hold the end of the crown up. Just a thought. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim
I've done the "lean the board up" thing to hold the other end and it works fine but if the damn thing should slip or fall while I'm in the middle of nailing something off and don't have quit enough nails in it yet you'd likely hear me say a couple gee wiz's or gosh oh mighty's!
I wish I could unload the pic's off my camera, having some difficulty but I have a pic of how I will install crown when alone, I take a piece of base(that's because its usually about 6" wide) and hold it up to the side of the casing on a door or window and shot a nail into it, this piece will leave a ledge about 6" down from the ceiling. The nail holes on paint grade have to be filled and sanded anyhow so no biggie there and on stain grade one more hole to fill isn't really that big a deal either. The metal strapping doesn't really take to long cause I've probably already gone along and established a line where the crown will go, along with locating some studs so I'm not really going out of the way for the strap.
When I'm installing cabinets the uppers usually go at 54" high. I will take two 2 X 4's and cut them at about 54 1/4" and lean them up against the wall, I'll have my drill handy with some screws already started in the cab box I'll then throw the box up on those 2 X's. All I have to do is kick the 2 X's closer to the wall until the box is lined up with my marks that I have already put on the wall. I can then reach inside the box and screw it off.
When I was trimming trac-homes I could install all the kitchen cabs with counter tops in one day and I never used anything else but my two 2 X's.
Now all we do is custom cabinets that have a built in cleat to hang cabinets from so it's actually much easier then before even though the cabinets are much bigger/heavier.
Screw an opposing cleat to the wall and just throw the cab boxes up on the cleat and screw them off.
Doug
I understand what you're doing Doug. I've temp built those types of holders in many various forms. I agree with your cabinet holding strategy too. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
He mentioned a 12' room. That's four pieces of trim. Five minutes to set up ladders. Square cut one piece: one minute. That leaves 18 minutes each for the remaining three. If you mitre and cope things all day, I don't see where the conflict is. If it's your first day on the job...yes, it'll take longer. When you add a few minutes for overage because he's just talking round numbers and yes, I see nothing remarkable about doing something like that. It's called: get to work and get it done. I've seen guys wander around for and hour before making the first cut. When I ran a crew, if I didn't hear saws running, hammers pounding and nail guns shooting in five minutes or less, the crew would have to re-learn the lesson about how to roll out and get going in the morning. It's actually quite comical to see tools flying at 7am across the deck. If they don't want to walk them and put them to work promptly....then...I'll fly them LOL! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Well, to some of us, that claim seems magical. To me, it'd take three days. And the carps I've hired in the past seem to think so too! Maybe it's time to stop the hourly rate?
I wonder if I'm the only one that thought it?
Unfortunately, I think you are the only one that thought that. I don’t even specialize (I do formwork, framing, finish, and drywall) and I would have no problem installing standard everyday crown in a 12’ x 12’ room in one hour once I got going. We’re of course talking all tools already setup (miter saw, compressor, extension cords, air hose, and nail gun) and I’ve already been working a little bit so that I’m up to a good pace.<!----><!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
Now, as for that crown that Doug posted pictures of . . . One hour? With all of those twists and turns . . . No way! However, I’m sure I’d have it done before the end of the day. In fact, I didn’t see the whole room, but it sure seems to me like it could well be done within half a day. Keep in mind, we’re all talking installation of standard – not built up crown. Oh, and not caulking, not puttying, and not painting either.
<!----> <!---->
Three days? Where are you located that a 12’ x 12’ room of standard crown can take 3 days? Are you hiring?-T
-T
You're right, rooms like that dont happen in one hour. I was just showing Pete that our crown isnt slapped up with some track home mentality.
Here is a pic of a room that has four layers of crown and I'm sure at least a full days worth of work.
Doug
View Image
Edited 5/27/2008 7:04 am ET by DougU
Nice work.<!----><!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
“4 pieces of trim, 4 copes, each cope takes 30 seconds if it's 6" crown, 15 seconds if its standard 3 1/2" crown”<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
30 seconds is definitely a lot faster than average. Do you use a jigsaw?<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
Just to give Pete an idea of how fast it can be done, I’m going to include a couple links.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
Coping crown with a coping saw:<!----><!---->
<!----><!---->
<!----><!---->
<!---->http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,1632379,00.html<!---->
<!----> <!---->
Coping crown with a jigsaw:
<!---->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W02ZLlnSXXY<!---->-T
You'se guys realize that you're raising the performance bar for my next carp job, don't you?
Somebody ain't gonna like that. I may (if'n I can find someone to work like youse) like it, but somebody isn't gonna be as happy as he would have been.
And I'm gonna tell him it was your fault.
Uh, How's come your buddy in the video running the Bosch isn't wearing safety glasses?
Edited 5/27/2008 10:46 am ET by peteshlagor
somebody isn't gonna be as happy as he would have been
Ha-ha
Look at this way, you'll be doing him a favor by helping him reach his full potential and keep up with the rest of the world.
Uh, How's come your buddy in the video running the Bosch isn't wearing safety glasses?
Good point. I don't know the guy. I simply did a quick YouTube search for a crown coping video. Personally, I would've taken the few extra seconds to darken the profile with my pencil to ensure a clean cut.
Keep in mind that in both these videos they aren't showing you the filing that takes place after the cut. It's hard to cut the profile perfectly smooth, so you usually cut very close to the profile and then file/sand it down. That should take about another minute or so.-T
Have you seen Dougs coping videos?
Grinder baby and its fast .
He does it in a few seconds.
Like I said thats the best thing hes taught me.
Tim
Edited 5/27/2008 1:01 pm by Mooney
Have you seen Dougs coping videos? <!----><!----><!---->
No, I haven’t. I would sure like to though. The grinder coping video I’ve seen is quite slow:<!----><!---->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud7cMf59lbo
I can get faster results than that with a coping saw and files. I don’t know, it could just be the guy using it. He has another video where he’s using a coping saw and files and he takes way too long IMO with those tools as well. He cuts way too far from the profile before filing it down.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
However, I did see this video where the power tool was used in combination with a coping saw. In this video they use a Dremel rotary tool. A Dremel is similar to a grinder, but it seems like it’s a better size tool for intricate finish work:<!----><!---->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbgT_yH7A_U
Although I see no need whatsoever for Trim-Stix, until I see it done faster and better with a grinder, I think I’ll spring for the Dremel if I ever decide to forgo my files.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
Something else that comes to mind is the Shinto rasp Garry Katz uses for baseboard. I don’t know if he uses it for crown though, or if it would even be suitable for a crown molding's tight contours.
-T
Edited 5/27/2008 2:05 pm by JourneymanCarpenterT
It looked like to me Joe was using too fine a disk. I use 60 grit for fine stuff and hog with 24s and 36s.
Doug eats Joe alive with a grinder . I do as a matter of fact but Doug taught me on here. Doug had some videos of taking a few seconds .
I didnt realize Joe was that big.
Tim
-T
Here are the vidios of me coping with the grinder.
I watch those of Joe and he is slow with his, my guess is that he's using to fine a disk, I use 24g on hardwood and 36 on soft.
Hope your not on dial up cause these are big files.
I usually grind the little tip/return on the cove to a 45° but when I was doing these vid's I didnt know if I had time to waste (doing this with my camera) another second or so trying to do them so I just cut the cove off flush.
I do a 3 1/2" crown in about 14-16 seconds, a 6" crown in under 30 seconds. Sometimes you have to hit them/clean them up with a file but not always.
Doug
Now that is saweet!
-T
Edited 5/27/2008 11:58 pm by JourneymanCarpenterT
Doug is so fast coping with a grinder...that he has time to climb up and down ladders the rest of the day. ;o)
Hahaha
That's the best one I've heard in a while. (I really do think ladders are faster, but I also think scaffolding is better for a super meticulous and extra fancy stain grade job.)
I wonder how long one of those blades lasts.
-T
Edited 5/28/2008 9:24 am by JourneymanCarpenterT
I was kidding, of course. I do prefer drywall benches (often in combination with scaffold planks) over ladders...but it does depend on the job. If all I am doing is one room and there are no planks on the job, a ladder is fine.If you look at Dougs photo in post # 85 (with four courses of crown)--that is the best argument for my approach (even though Doug posted it). Benches and planks around the perimeter would certainly be ideal for that job.I do cope with a grinder too...I use two sanding disks back to back (so I can cope from either direction and always shoot the dust away from myself--just by flipping the grinder).One set of disks lasts several crown jobs (or one huge job).Cheers,Basswood
I do prefer drywall benches
You know, that gives me an idea.<!----><!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
What if I built my own walk-ups and made them lighter than drywall benches? I could make them similar to plywood sawhorse/staging, except make the top wider (so I wouldn’t have to use a plank) and the rail stronger (to use as a step).<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
I could also make them just a little less lengthy that drywall benches. Since most walls are no shorter than 7’, I can make them each 3’ long. That’s a total of 6’ to leave room to stay off the walls. If the wall is a little longer, I can always spread them out a little bit.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
Finally, I should make them so that they’re just as comfortable as a ladder for getting up and down. However, they should be just steep enough to fit into tight spaces, which means no wider than a ladder turned sideways.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
How about this for materials: The two sides will serve as legs and be made from ¾” hardwood plywood. The top will be 1x8 pine with it's center supported by hardwood plywood on edge. The rails that serve as steps will be made from 2x3 pine and be mortised into the plywood sides.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
What do you think?<!----><!---->-T
Sounds like a plan.If they could stack for storing, all the better.
Your too easy.
Do you think I could get away with using 1x6 instead of 2x3 for the stepping rails? To properly proportion it, I feel like the top and rails should either both be 1x or both be 2x.
What about the top? Do you think 1x8 is wide enough for the top? I wear a size 10. Perhaps a 1x10 would be a little more appropriate.-T
We use to call that a "walkplank". Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Okay, a "walk-plank" then. Just as long as we understand we're talking about a 3' long board that's attached to one sawhorse and not spanning two. What do you think? Would you say a pine 1x10 would be strong enough for a walk-plank?<!----><!----><!---->
Each end will be supported by 2 hardwood plywood sides that are 3/4" thick. Each of the two triangular plywood "legs" will be cut at a 3 1/2" width at the top. The center of the walk-plank is supported by a 7 1/2" wide rip of 3/4" thick hardwood plywood turned on edge. The span is 3'.<!----><!---->
That will create a 2 7/8" overhang on either side of each plywood "leg." Between each leg there will be an overhang of 4 1/4" on either side. Perhaps that's why I started out thinking about a 1x8 even though a 1x10 would be more standard for this kind of application.<!----><!---->
What I'm thinking about doing to strengthen the 1x walk-plank and still avoid the weight of using a 2x, is fastening 1x2 cleats turned on edge to the top of both sides of the 7 1/2" hardwood plywood rip. That will still leave a 2 7/8" overhang on both sides of each end, but it will only leave a 3 1/2" overhang on each side in the center, as opposed to an overhang of 4 1/4".<!----><!---->
Also, what do you think about the 1x6 side rails turned on edge? Do you think they would be strong enough to use as steps?<!----><!---->
-T
Edited 5/29/2008 3:56 pm by JourneymanCarpenterT
I've worked on 32" `1x12's for years. The actual span was 29". There was always a hole cut in the middle for a hand grip. I have split some of them but the split never occurred without warning and since I had solid supports, there was never a danger. If you intend to support the 1x10 with only the four exterior legs, there is a substantial danger of in instant split that will cause injury. Mitigate that danger with a simply plywood gusset and you are "good to go".After you've built your fifth of sixth one, you'll have all the necessary customized features that make you more productive than you've ever been! I worked with an old carpenter that used to build a 7' long version of this walkplank. He used a 2x10. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
the middle for a hand grip. I have split some of them but the split never occurred without warning and since I had solid supports, there was never a danger. <!----><!----><!---->
If you intend to support the 1x10 with only the four exterior legs, there is a substantial danger of in instant split that will cause injury. Mitigate that danger with a simply plywood gusset and you are "good to go".<!----><!---->
Thanks. Since there will only be 2 legs, each side solid 3/4” hardwood plywood (example), I guess I should be fine.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
You never did say weather you thought you thought a 1x6 pine side rail would be strong enough to use as a step though. That’s okay, I have a feeling it will just make it. Besides, that’s just the simple version. I wanted to see what you thought of it before I told you about all my ideas for the bells and whistles. But, since you opened the door . . .<!----><!---->
After you've built your fifth of sixth one, you'll have all the necessary customized features that make you more productive than you've ever been! <!----><!---->
. . . I guess I’ll go on.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
I like to do things right the fist time. I plan on living with these things for at least the next 20 years, so let me tell you about my other idea in place of the 1x6:<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
I was looking at my 2’ stepladder, and if I make my trestles a 24” height like Basswood recommended (coincidentally the same height as a 2’ stepladder plus the thickness of a plank), I’ll need two steps to make them as comfortable as my stepladder is.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
The stepladder uses 1x4s on the flat for the steps. To help support each step, truss rod about 3/16” in diameter is dadoed into the bottom of them. Now, the wooden stepladder is only rated for 200 lbs, and you can feel how fragile the steps are when you walk on them. What I thought I would do is dado two truss rods into the bottom of each step. A 2’ stepladder is only about a foot wide though, so hopefully this will still be strong enough to support a 3’ span. I suppose I could also use 1/4" instead of 3/16” if I’m really concerned.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
Besides using two truss rods for support instead of one, and possibly increasing the diameter of the truss rods from 3/16” to 1/4”, there’s something else I noticed I could do to help support these steps, or 1x4s on the flat. My 2’ stepladder has metal angle brackets supporting each end of the first step, but not the second. I think I’ll use the metal angle brackets on both.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
Well, if the extra truss rod won’t be enough to support the flat 1x4 side rails I’ll be using as steps, I could always go with 5/4 pine for a full 1” thickness. It would be nice if I don’t have to though, since it would add weight to the walkup.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
Wooden stepladders also have ribs routed into their steps for traction. Perhaps I’ll do the same for the 1x4 (on the flat) side rails on these benches. I’m thinking I should do the same for the walk-plank. After all, that’s how they make drywall benches.<!----><!---->-T
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: I should also round all edges with my router.-T
1/6 sounds too heavy for me. I always made things ultra light. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
he has time to climb up and down ladders the rest of the day
Well its good exercise! And we all need that.
Doug
You have another good point there...I guess that's why it is called work (lifting, carrying and climbing involved, no matter, the method).Cheers,Brian
-T
I watched that vidio of the trim-stix and I dont know that I understood it! I did like the music that played to the guy doing the work, maybe John Lee Hooker?
I'm going to see if I can get my vidio on U-tube but I'm going to set mine to Koko Taylor singing Wang Dang Doodle! Sorta class it up a bit.
Doug
Thanks for re-posting those videos of coping with a grinder. I'll get around to trying it one of these days, but I have gotten pretty good with a coping saw.
I don't get the trim-stix either. Maybe it's used in the land of no-tape-measures.
Pete
My copes are as tight as can be, stain grade/paint grade, no difference! Caulk is for guys that cant get the cope tight, I can.
When your spraying paint the paint grade trim better be as tight as the stain grade, we don't do it quick and easy when were in a paint grade situation, that's for hacks that use caulk to hide there inability to make a tight joint.
9' ceilings don't take any longer then 8', all you have to do is go up one more rung on the ladder. I guess if you want to get technical then yea, there are a few seconds to get up that extra rung but over the course of a room that really don't amount to much time.
The six rooms I did the other day had 6" crown, but I must confess, all the rooms were either closests or bathrooms! So really I was fudging a bit but if the room is fairly standard then the time is no difference. I would rather install crown in a 12' square room then a small irregular bath or closet. No room to twist the crown that little bit to make copes and miters(outside corners) fit nice.
Doug
Pete
Our crown doesn't come out like this because we fill the joints with caulk, its cause we get them tight from the beginning.
View Image
You don't get that kind of finish on spray painted crown by filling the gaps with caulk. sprayed finish would show every single irregularity if the joints were filled with caulk.
Doug
Edited 5/26/2008 10:05 pm ET by DougU
Those are good looking joints, but I'll have to disagree with you on the caulk. A good caulking job shouldn't be seen. I have never seen a trim job that didn't need some caulking, I can see some in your picturebut you are right, in that caulking isn't a substitute for good joints. painted wood is much more work than stain grade for the painter as I'm sure you know
Barry E-Remodeler
I have never seen a trim job that didn't need some caulking, I can see some in your picture
We'll have to fire the damn painter!
Seriously though, all joints on paint grade should get caulk, everything, anywhere there is a meeting of wood, wall, .........
Doug
:)it's always the painter's faultI should have said i couldn't see any in the joints. nice work
Barry E-Remodeler
You ain't doing that crown in one hour in any room! Nice work. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
You ain't doing that crown in one hour in any room!
Jim, your right, that room takes a bit longer!
And yes, I was talking a typical 12' sq room. And one hour is a very liberal time frame to do it in. Shouldn't take anywhere near that time.
4 pieces of trim, 4 copes, each cope takes 30 seconds if it's 6" crown, 15 seconds if its standard 3 1/2" crown, Hell I think you could stand around and talk for 15 of those minutes and still not be rushed.
There was a discussion on here several months ago, something about running crown or base........given the choice I'm running crown, I can do it standing up and fast, I hate getting down on my hands and knees and running base, its hard getting up and down when your 50+!
Doug
Very nice work, but 6 months later when joints open and some of it pulls from the ceiling someone will end up caulking it..
.
"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
If you know anything about paint grade trim you'd know that it's already been caulked to the ceiling!
Normal paint grade trim gets caulked everyplace there is a joint, that means wood to wood, wood to drywall, to anything that it's connected to.
I've got pictures of and have been in houses that I've installed crown in 5 and 10 years later and there isn't any gap at the drywall.
Why would you think something going to open up?
BTW, these pictures are from 14 months after we finished the house! I had to go back and do a repair on a cabinet so now what?
I guess your right, there is the possibility that a gap can appear at some time but what would you suggest that be done to avoid any gaps? Don't use paint grade trim? What's your solution? I know its been around for a while, maybe not in your area but I've seen it for some time now, think its here to stay!
When I showed that picture I wasn't suggesting that our paint grade trim isn't caulked, just that our joints are not filled with caulk, there tight, and of course they still get caulked, just as any paint grade trim does, that's regardless of how loose or tight the joint is. That's how paint grade trim is done!
Doug
Edited 5/27/2008 8:15 pm ET by DougU
Your sentence before the pics implied you don't use any caulk. That is what I was responding too. Now you say you do caulk which is more like I'm used to seeing..
.
"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
Wouldn't glue be better on a tight fitting paint joint? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Your sentence before the pics implied you don't use any caulk.
Sorry didnt meant to imply that no caulk was used on paint grade just that we didnt make sloppy joints(close enough for paint grade) and then fill with backer rod and caulk over it. We install paint grade the same as stain grade.
Doug
How do you hold up the other end of the crown?
I've been lucky enough to have a helper whenever I've done it, but I'm thinking of getting a pair of FastCap 3rd Hands for the next time I need to install alone.
How do you hold up the other end of the crown?
Ideally if I'm installing crown by my self I will sorta survey the situation and if I can get by with it and there is either a window or a door on the wall that I need to put crown up on I will take a scrap piece of wood and nail it to the side of the casing about where I think the crown will sit, that allows me to rest my crown on that while I go down to the other end and nail it tight.
When I don't have the luxury of that casing to nail to the side of I use a bent piece of tin that has a slot on it, I nail it up above where the crown will hide the nail, the strapping will hang down where the crown will rest on it until I can get to it from my ladder. when I get there I simply slip my strapping up and out and nail the crown off. I leave the nail behind the crown where it will never be a problem.
Usually we(where I work) don't do crown alone so its rare that the occasion would come up where I would have to install crown in any big rooms by my self, but on some side jobs there isn't anybody else around and all I can do is what I've mentioned.
Doug
Maybe where we are seeing this differently if you are just doing the carp work which I dont . If you are doing it all like I do then its no contest. Anymore its usually paint grade . I install , , fill , and caulk before I move . I could paint but I dont . I always do three on paint grade.
Thats how hand finishers make a living . Thers an old saying I adopted although its not mine , Ive still used it through the years. "You need to get it while you can. "
Thats not always true .
If you are stuck on a scaffold where its hard to get down and it took time to get it there then stuff needs to be done while its up there of course. When a hand taper gets on stilts and hes in a room he needs to complete the top. That means he does nails and joints plus angles. If hes finishing he runs metal too . Theres tricks to making a room "all" wet. Hes gotta do it if hes up there .
Running a bazooka from the floor offers freedom . I can afford the luxry of taping butts if I want to in every room before I run long joints. Same with the float boxes.
I always go as far as I can go on trim while IM on stilts or walkups . Thats impossible almost on a ladder because of movement . If you are there just to install the crown than I can see your point.
Tim
Tim
Yea, for the most part all I do is the carpentry end of things. Depends on time but we do some nail fill and sand in's because we do our own painting most of the time so your saying "You need to get it while you can. " is very appropriate. I tell that to the guys that I work with all the time, "do it while your there, then you don't have to come back to it, or worse, forget to come back and do it"
I really hate working on scaffolding, to limiting but sometimes you have to and then it takes more time, at least it seams like it to me.
And I did move back to Iowa two years ago come September. time fly's when your having fun!
Doug
PS, here's a pic of those walkups I meant to attach to the last post to you. I'll give them a try, seriously!
View Image
Edited 5/26/2008 9:31 pm ET by DougU
like you said time flysI use to use mostly ladders also, got a couple of those benches at HD and use them way more than ladders now. You can walk from one to the other and not have to climb up and down so much. An important consideration for those of us over the 50 mark
Barry E-Remodeler
Im still laffin. Great posts.
The walkups you posted are cheapies. Not what I was talkin bout .
Look these over with parts ;
http://www.all-wall.com/acatalog/A000_Benches_16.php
I have to agree with ya though. I wouldnt buy this stuff now . Im older than you and in a heck of a lot worse shape . If I was in good shape and 53 Id coast doing what I did best .
They have stuff now I dont have of course .
Because I come around a room painting and I always ran times . What else is there to think about doing somthing so boring ? Granted I havent ran times doing crown . I hardly ever get to do it . Mebbe the renters will give me more money. <G> The flips I do are about the same style so I dont do much fine homebuilding . But Ill share a little thought .
In rentals cutting in the wall color on carpet /drops, I normally use a ladder because Im finishing the room wet . One wall is complete before I start the second. Otherwise if the cut in drys it will flash they call it but really the over lap gets an extra coat and the viynl will show the extra finish. Thats why I do it , not time . Another time doing it while you can isnt good . Slower time for better results. I wouldnt dream of using walkups. They would be in the way all the time going to the floor. Ive got a painters ladder that lifts with one hand and sits level every time . Other than climbing all the time its pretty easy and only a portion of the work is up on them. Fair example of choosing whats right in the arsenal.
Another problem I have too is I dont have all my arsenal . Its home or in the shop or in a storage building I have in the country. MY wife thought 6 boxes of mud should go to the country building not long ago and start freeing up my shop for a shop. I had to buy another box of mud to load out the other day instead of taking a pleasant drive in the country. I cannot make the right decisions . I cant haul all that stuff or keep it in one place .
That brings me to what you do kinda. I would want to load a trailer that went with me or a fancy truck like DanT has [Im so envious] . Id have to choose what made a living . Ladders take up a of room but you have to have them aboard. I read Piffins poker hand in that he has the problem too with staging and thought about a trailer for it . Too much money to turn loose of but it would be sweet if there was a stage trailer and a tool trailer two people would pull. Hmm, sweet. Fact is you are doing great with ladders and have it goin on for you .
I do too many different things and have to stay scatching my head wondering where my stuff is laying .
Edit ; Almost forgot , sorry, Great work.
Tim
Edited 5/27/2008 12:58 am by Mooney
Tim, I've always looked at the drywallers benches with envy. They do seem perfect for so many things. My problem is that I use my benches to stop my saw blades. I shoot and tack boards to it. I nail it against walls on it's edge. I'd ruin those nice walkups in 6 months! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
That wouldnt be good . <G>
Tim
Why not drill some holes in the tops of those drywallers benches and attatch a sacrificial board to the top of them with screws from the under side.
Because I do a lot more than just nail and saw the top. I have been known to nail through the legs. I run the saw into the leg to create a slot to hold the saw. I cut the legs to fit uneven surfaces. I nail legs on to it to make one leg 4' long when the others are 32" and stuff like that. There is no end to my abuse. Even if I paid a lot of money for a nice aluminum walkup, they'd be junk and I'd be selling them for scrap in no time. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Yeah, whatever tool fits time and place. Smaller the room is, the more your options are limited.You mentioned trailer load of staging.
I had an idea once not long ago when I saw a boat trailer for sale. It was a brand new steel heavy duty one (They only use Aluminum here due to salt water ) and I thought of making a T-rack on the center of it so it could be loaded with all ladders on one side and staging on the other.They wanted too much for it though. $3500 IIRC
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"Yeah, whatever tool fits time and place. Smaller the room is, the more your options are limited."Exactly. Since the bulk of my career was out there in new work, custom roughs, all my systems are geared in that frame of mind. I never owned, nor worked on any type of prefabbed scaffolding on the custom roughs I did. There was never a time when I could erect something out of the stuff that was lying at my feet faster. We even had a 20' aluminum plank (left over from remodeling days) that never got used. We eventually forgot that it was stored by a construction trailer and lost it LOL! We never missed it! Too heavy...too bulky....too long to maneuver. I'd much rather set up a couple of 12' planks than walk out to the truck and pull that beast off the rack. I gave aways sets of pumpjacks because I never used them. There's just some tools that aren't needed in different settings. I know I'd rethink all my staging strategies if I was doing interior work. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Something like this could carry a 'boat load' of scaffolding.
Tim
You and I are about the same age right? I'll take you on in a crown install job, I'll use my ladder, you use your bakers, stilts whatever.
I'll be sitting there drinking a cold Bud light before you get that damn scaffolding around the second corner! This is for crown only, no sheet rock or any other stuff, I know my limits!
As for Bass, your young, I'll be drinking that Bud before you get around the first corner!
I figure alone crown for a typical 12 sq room shouldnt take an hour, that's counting moving my stuff in, ladders and all, your time to move that scaffolding around alone will take you more time then I would to run the crown, as sledge said, 20 minutes if there are two guys.
So Tim, your a gambler, how much ya good for?
Doug
Yes sir , I am a gambler.
Since we would be together anyway Ill do this;
We would have to have enough crown.
Ill help ya 4 hrs off stilts . Ill feed ya the measurements . You do the cutting and coping and handing to me . Ill beat your morning or evening time alone by better than half .
Im not able to climb anymore but I can work a half day off stilts. [I think]
Id rather you try my walkups for a day. Be easiar on me . <G> Youre just like Piffin which is fine . Youve never tried it . I picked up your coping with a grinder and Its one of the best things Ive learned here . Im tryin to teach you somthing now but youre bein hard headed. <G> I dont know how you guys got in your head walkups are hard to set up and move . Contraire . I could set mine up for you and you could fly. Youre evidently really fast but your not getting that speed off ladders . I promise. Think about where youre getting your speed .
Now off crown subject ;
You need every play you can call on your offense . I think you paint too . Ill paint crown with you . You paint off stepladders and Ill wax you good.
Having walkups in the arsenal just allows you to call another play in an INSTANT . If you do any ceiling work at all they are handier than working off a ladder. If you need your head to hold the material they can be adjusted where that happens by raising on your toes slightly. Otherwise you never bump your head. "Your free for lateral movement and turning around if you wish. " 1 four foot walkup will give you 10 ft of reach. Walkups are just that . A set of stairs . You can buy an extra step but I dont use them. That would make two steps and the platform. On a 10 foot ceiling I use the tall legs on two and set a regular legged one as steps . Im not sure what they weigh but its not more than a fiber 6 foot ladder . They flip out and fold down in an instant or back up . Theres a lock thats hit by your toe and unlocked the same way. You mentioned 12 by 12 rooms . These guys make their time going down hallways, bathrooms , and kitchens. A perfect set up would be in one of those to beat ladders.
I like ladders too but not all day.
Tim
Tim
I'd like nothing more then to spend a day working with you but I'm afraid that that AK wit of yours you'd have me rolling around on the floor all day!
I'll play along here for fun because its probably not ever going to happen but here goes.
Ill help ya 4 hrs off stilts
I've never really worked around anybody that used stilts until I moved to TX and worked with this young guy named Orbalene, God that kid could fly on stilts, still blows my mind. I'm sure if you've been using them for the length of time that you have your every bit as good as he was or better, I doubt I could get across the room without falling down, then what, lay there like a fish out of water!
Id rather you try my walkups for a day. Be easiar on me . <G> Youre just like Piffin which is fine
I'll have to admit, I don't know much about walkups other then watching rockers use them, and your right, they do move with them. Doubt they could do the same with ladders. I never have used them for anything other then the occasional jump up on one and put a piece of blocking in for a rocker, that's my total experience with them! I can defiantly see the advantage to them but changing technique is hard for an old guy like me.
Im tryin to teach you somthing now but youre bein hard headed. <G> I dont know how you guys got in your head walkups are hard to set up and move
Tim, now your getting all personal on me <G>, damn the other day my wife said I was the son of Satin and now your telling me I'm hard headed! What's next, Armageddon!
I don't doubt that the walkups are better but they have never been available to me and I doubt I would go out and buy some of those things unless I had used them and found them to be a great way of doing things. According to Pete I'm magical so why would I need to improve on my technique? <G>
There is a set of these floating around the job site, I'll tell you what, I'll use them to install crown in the next room and I'll be honest with my report on them. I'm willing to try something once!
I think you paint too . Ill paint crown with you . You paint off stepladders and Ill wax you good.
I said that my offer was for CROWN only! I know you'd kick my #### if we were painting the damn stuff! I paint but only for myself, not my employer, we have 1 1/2 in house painters.
That's the thing about stilts that I noticed when I was down in TX, some of those guys used them just like I did a ladder, of course the could get around quicker and they could out do me in almost anything we did but at 53 there is no way on Gods green earth that I'm going to start using stilts.
Doug
maybe we should all be talking about measuring and coping skills since no amount of time saving ladder/scaffold set ups mean squat when you have to keep going back to the saw. "it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com
They're great!
I use them most of the time instead of a small step ladder. They're a lot more stable, and I can reach more off them.
Mine don't adjust for height. Some of the newer ones have legs that will extend for working higher.
9' ceilings or less I use 2 4' step ladders and a plank between them. For 10" and above i tend to use a scaffold but if it's a small job i'll use taller ladders and the plank.
2 guys, 2- 4' ladders... 20 minutes, room done.
Add scaffolding and it would probably take twice as long, with wall dings to fix from swinging a walk board.
Edited 5/22/2008 7:23 pm ET by sledgehammer
2 guys, 2- 4' ladders... 20 minutes, room done.
Sledge, I'm with you, all that other stuff just slows the job down.
When I'm running crown alone I still prefer the 4'(sometimes a 6' is needed) ladder over any scaffolding, I can move faster with it then anything else.
Doug
BOLT FIVE GALLON BUCKETS TO YOUR BOOTS
If im working in someones home i just drag there bed around the room but i always take my shoes off.
It's been a very long time since I did anything like that but in my day, I always worked out of a simple site built workbench. I always made them out of 1x12 and the top was typically 32" long. I'd make them 20" high (good for sitting and having lunch). Or course it would have a tray, for my tools (not too many) and a handle hole.A bench like this with a two 4' ladders would get me a looooong way on each wall. I'm guessing I could span 16' without touching the ground. My four foot ladders were always wood and I could work off both sides. I never liked 5' ladders. They were too heavy and I couldn't snug up to the wall close enough. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
how about drywall stilts.a friend of mine and his brother use them when they renovate rooms in a high end hotel here in New Paltz. one cuts on the ground, the other installs and nails."it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com
There aint no way I'm doing crown with stilts! Doubt my boss would be able to handle the workmans comp claims.
I did work with a young man down in Texas that walked around on stilts like it was second nature, he'd do everything off of them that I would with a step ladder but I don't think I'm capable!
You know the old saying, cant teach an old dog new tricks.
I think I can do crown with a couple step ladders as fast as anyone can with any of the scaffolding that they use. Not saying that my way is the right way, but it works for me, everybody has there own ways and ladders are mine.
Doug
I'm a ladder kinda guy too. I've been known to lean four ten foot sections of ladders up and walk across them doing exterior work, never touching the ground. I always kept two sets of wood 20' eastern style (straight rails) on site so finding four wasn't hard. I can cover a lot of ground on three ladders. I've also worked lots of pairs of step ladders in the same way. I worked with 4's so it wouldn't be uncommon for me to hopscotch them without me ever hitting the floor. I also know how to hop them, spin them etc. I can hop a ten foot straight wooden ladder all the way across a side of a garage. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
don't ever work for me man. I'm a safety first kind of guy. no amount of time saved is worth an injury that follows you the rest of your life. I've got half a thumb and an ugly index finger to prove my point."it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com
It's kinda ironic that I've got all my digits and have never fallen off an extension ladder, isn't it? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I agree that we should do what is most comfortable and safe based on our skills, balance, limitations of any kind. I have knee issues these day and I'm not so sure I would try stilts anymore either. They do look like fun though."it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com
They do look like fun though.
Yea, in a sadistic sort of way!
All I can think of is falling from that height.
Doug
I haven't tried them, ever, but a drywaller told me that they look a lot scarier than they are.I really need to try them, sometime.
baker scoffold.
worth the initial investment.
easy set up / tear down.
easy to transport.
lasts forever.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I got one of these $99 rolling scaffolds at Blowes that works like a small Baker. They fold up real small and you can stagger the platform to make stairs if you're going up and down a lot.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=145287-287-PS-48&lpage=none
.
.
"Thank goodness for the Democrats! If you are terminally unemployable, enjoy living off of govt welfare and feel you owe society nothing you're in luck: there is a donkey waiting for you."
I usually just stand up straight. If that doesn't work...
View Image
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
I usually just stand up straight.
now that evolution is taking the time to catch up to you...
isn't it great....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
No, it's just easier to turn the room upside down, that's what I do, makes it a pain for the base board though.
I just use two ladders with or without a plank depending on the wall length. Most rolling platforms don't get you far enough, 6' or so.
You may or may not know this trick with it I can do a room myself.
Cut and cope a one foot piece of the crown to fit of the right side of the corner.
Cut a one foot straight piece for the left side.
Position both in the starting corner when right, gap the coped piece an 1/8" or so sctew it up with a dry wall screw.
You now have a helper to hold your first piece in place.
Lets say you have a 20' wall cut your first piece right hand straight, left mitered 22.5 degrees for your splice. out of a 16' piece
slide the straight edge under the screwed coped piece, nail it up, except for the last two feet of the left side.
unscrew the temp piece move it to the left corner of the last 4' you have to infill on the 20' wall.
Hang the piece on the right side of the new wall, same as the first,
Unscrew the temp piece now you can play with that last 4' getting it just right, remember to nail the last two feet of the first 16' footer after the two sections are aligned.
Like this two ladders one guy can hang a whole room himself.
Edited 5/24/2008 11:19 am ET by wallyo
I have been installing crown with 9 and 10' ceilings at the house I am trimming now. I like to stage two walls with benches or short saw horses and scaffold planks.
I prefer this to climbing up and down ladders. Nice to be able to walk the perimeter of the room and work at a comfortable height. This is especially true for large crown (this job is 6-1/2" crown).
Nice to be able to walk around and mark studs, install backing, and install crown--without climbing much.
Thanks for the picture. The more I think about it, the more it seems like small custom sawhorses are the way to go when supporting planks at this height.<!----><!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
At 5’ 9” a 2’ stepladder (which is actually 22 ½”) puts my head just 3” below the ceiling when you add the 1 ½” plank. However, Werner’s 2’ wooden step ladder is only rated for 200 lbs. There’s just not enough of a safety margin there for me to feel comfortable. Werner’s 2’ aluminum stepladder is rated for 300 lbs, but I don’t know if I like the plastic top step. It just seems like it would be too slippery for scaffolding. Then of course, if I’m working 10’ like you are in this instance, a 2’ stepladder doesn’t do me much good.<!----><!---->
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Keeping my head 3” below the ceiling seems like a good idea because it will keep me from having to have my arms stretched out over my head all day, but then, right now I’m used to working off a ladder.<!----><!---->
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I think I might like to make some custom sawhorses 34 ½” in height (for 9’ ceilings), with supports at 22 ½” (for 8’ ceilings), and 16 ½” for ceilings at 7’ 6”. This setup will only bring my head within 15” of 10’ ceiling, but I should still be able to reach the crown with an outstretched arm.<!----><!---->
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I’m not exactly sure about the lightest way to go about building them, but I was wondering if 1x4s would be strong enough for scaffolding. However, it looks like those 1xs in your picture. If this is so, then perhaps I will make them out of 1x4s and 2x4s. <!----><!---->
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I’m thinking about making them 12” wide to support a single 2x10 or 2x12. I’d like to forgo the flat top piece for less weight and simply bolt 4 mitered 2x4s to 1 horizontal crosspiece. Again, for less weight I’ll use a 1x4 for the top crosspiece, but I’ll bolt straight through one opposing 2x4 leg to the other for strength. Then I’ll mortise into the 2x4 legs for 1x4 crosspieces at the lower heights of 22 ½” and 16 ½”. Since the 1x4s will be supported by their mortises, I think I’d like to mortise in ½” plywood gussets 12” long in place of the 1x4 crosspieces in the picture. I’ll miter the legs at a 13 degree angle to keep the lower 1x4 crosspieces as close together and as vertical as possible for strength. It should also help keep storage space to a minimum. Do you think they’ll be strong enough?<!----><!---->
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I’m guessing I’ll need about 10 of them for the average room. Perhaps about 20 for a large room with a miter saw station in the center. I could probably store them in two stacks, stacked 10 high.<!----><!---->-T
Done right, 1x4's will hold a lot of weight. I worked off sawhorses built with 1/4 legs for thirty years and even I would be surprised at how much weight I could load on to them. The key to creating strength and stability is to build in the correct sway...both ways. I always made them light so they were fast to stack and move as one unit. That's quite a big demand for a guy with balsa wood discs! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
You make a good point about swaying the legs both ways. These Burro knockdown sawhorses look like they’re made out of 1x, yet the manufacturer claims they’re rated for 3,000 lbs. each. I don’t know what the lower horizontal support is suppose to be rated for, but they show a guy using it to support scaffolding and it looks like the 1x4 he’s standing on is only an 1 ½” wide where it rests for support.<!----><!----><!---->
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Perhaps I should make mine more like these. I just hope there really as strong as they claim.
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http://www.burrobrand.com/kdburro.html
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I would believe that claim.I think my versions of very light 1x4 legged horses would hold a bunk of studs. I wish I had tested them when I had the skytrak. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
that is hard to accept...
have faith in them would be a better way to put .....
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WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Those probably would handle the load when brand new, if evenly distributed on a smooth flat floor.But for comparison, my four 2by horses have been going for fifteen years now and once had ten thousand pounds loaded on
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Exactly! Since I've never needed to support that much weight, I always built my horses very light. It saves the back. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
They are plywood and get cut out on a CNC machine. I had a couple I won but they did not hold up to exterior work for long, and did break down at the lower legs after a while.
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Thanks for relating that experience.-T
here's a tool, the design of which I picked up from a plasterer on a job a few years ago - he had probably 20 of these units, two different heights, he'd lay planks across them to plaster a ceiling, I just use them as steps most of the time -
real handy for lots of jobs - 10* splay on the legs - they nest for transport/storage
View Image"there's enough for everyone"
Thanks for the picture. A 10 degree splay is worth considering, especially since I want them to fit in as tight quarters as possible.-T
My painter had me make up some boxes once out of mostly scrap ply and #4 pine scraps. They were something like 14" x 18" x 24" and open at some portion of it.That way it could be rotated three different ways to stand on for various tasks, easy to pick up, and he could use if for storage and carrying stuff from room to room. The ones I made were modeled after some he already had that were wearing out.
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I used to tilt my little work bench three ways too. Since I always left a 1 1/2" nosing on the ends (more than that and they tip), I'd have to block the legs with a chunk of 2x to stand it on end. That would give me a quick 32" support structure. I only used it that way on rare occasions (very tight spots) because my sawhorses were always that height. If I laid the bench on it's side, it would give me a quick 12" boost. There were many years when I'd never be seen working without that bench. In later years, when I worked exclusively with air tools, on custom rough frames, it was quite easily to shoot together any scaffold arrangement and my need for the bench waned. I'd still occasionally whip one out though because they were great for doing punch out. That 20" step would get me to most anything in a normal house. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
JCT,Those horses are 3/4" plywood and stand 24" tall. They work well for 9' ceilings. They are light and strong...2x stock is overkill for my uses. My work benches are a couple of inches shorter and are ideal for 8' ceilings. For 10' ceilings 3' horses work well, or a small scaffold on wheels.Have a good weekend,Brian
Wow! 3/4" plywood it is then. I think I'll make mine similar to the Burro design, except instead of 1 lower horizontal spreader in the center, I'll make at least 2 - 1 for each side like you have. I think I might still like to mortise them in though.
I'm starting to think about making two different kinds, one for one for 9' and 10' heights and one for 7' 6" and 8' heights. I picked 7' 6" because I can reach 7' stretching from the floor and 7' 4" seems to be a little too ridiculous to use scaffolding for.
I'll have to reconsider a 24" height for installing 9' crown. However, I think that would but my head 13" below the ceiling, which means I would have stretch out my arms and bend my neck back looking up all day long. That's ideal for actually installing ceilings, but I wonder if you might be taller than I am.-T
Exactly right.
Around here we call it "work like a gentleman"! buic
Don't do crown, but a couple of these are used a lot. Nice to bring tools on site also
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Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
I once stood in awe, while watching a couple of pros on a commercial job.
One standing on the floor, doing the cutting, then feeding material to a guy on stilts, who did the measuring and the nailing up.
Bam-bam, thank you ma'am. Very quick.
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"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Thats what I do. Put on the drywall stilts, go around the room snaping lines, marking studs and measuring everything. I take off the stilts, cut and cope it all, then put em back on to nail it all together. Any troublesome corners are handled last off a 6' step.