I posted this a few weeks ago but I can’t find that old thread /post and I wanted to update some things and ask opinions. The gist is the owner is responsible for the scaffolding. There are three 12,000 volt power lines within the 10 ‘ clear zone. Even though the scaffolding is his deal he asked me to call City Light and have them come out to take a look and make recomendations. OK ….I reluctantly did and City Light said that the two lines closest to the scaffolding are dead and so in reality we have our 10’ clearance to the hot wire. BUT….City light wants $7,600.00 from the guy to come out and flag the wire and run a couple of groundjumpers from the dead lines. I asked City Light to send me an email describing the charges so I can forward the email onto the owner which they did late last Friday.
Problem is…I verbally tell the owner in person and three others hear me tell him too what City Light requires and owner hears only that the affected wires are dead and so wants to hurry up and install the scaffolding but not pay City Light for doing their thing and he does not want me to forward him the email from City Light because he will maintain that if he didn’t recieve it he’s not liable for the costs. Basically he’s going to beg for forgivness rather than ask for permission if he gets caught. My problem is I think I’m opening myself up big time if anybody gets hurt on this scaffolding since he’s not doing as required by City Light. I already told him I won’t work on this side of the building unless he follows protocol and he say’s fine he’ll do it himself. But…. again I’m fearful that if by remote chance he, or his painters come in contact with current and gets hurt or killed he’s going to plead innocent because he didn’t get the email indicating what the procedures are. He’s a wealthy developer and is a client I would like to have on board with me as a general contractor but there’s this big THING that I’m having trouble with. What to do?
Here’s the email I got from City Light….
BjR
Replies
I would reply to city light letting them know that you are no longer working in the hazard zone and give them the name who is.So far it looks like you are the contact man and thats what you don't want to be. I would proceed with my work and expect a bit of fuss when you charge for your time for working around the hazard area.
Rik
My first thought is that this is a stupid post ... the answer is obvious. At the very least you need to document what you told the customer. Send him a certified letter and an email stating the situation. You absolutely must cover your risk. I don't know your role here, but suppose state or federal OSHA visits the site and sees power lines too close to the scaffolding. They are going to write you up as if the lines were hot, and then you have to prove otherwise. It's not worth the trouble. And the owner is an idiot for not paying the $7k for a little safety.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Edited 8/3/2008 12:33 pm ET by FastEddie
"My first thought is that this is a stupid post ... the answer is obvious. At the very least you need to document what you told the customer. Send him a certified letter and an email stating the situation. You absolutely must cover your risk. I don't know your role here, but suppose state or federal OSHA visits the site and sees power lines too close to the scaffolding. They are going to write you up as if the lines were hot, and then you have to prove otherwise. It's not worth the trouble. And the owner is an idiot for not paying the $7k for a little safety. "
My first thought is that there aren't any stupid questions and I kinda take umbrage with the tone of your reply..... thank you. If you read the post I'm asking for opinions of the best way to proceed and cover my butt and at the same time not alienate a good client. If I forward him the email it will certainly piss him off and I probably won't get anymore work from him. If I don't I'm potentially screwed too. My value is to error on the side of caution and forward him the email but want to do it in a way that would not burn any future bridges. It does not escape my notice and I'm quite familiar with what could happen so I'm asking for opinions to lessen the potential damage.
I am contracted to repair damaged window sills and repair some stained glass windows and frames. He's acting as his own general contractor and has his own painters, caulkers, and laborers on site. I'm just doing the windows and some minor carpentry on the interior.
"If I forward him the email it will certainly piss him off and I probably won't get anymore work from him."Why do you want more work from somebody obviously a dishonest PIA
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He must not have learned yet that some customers are better left to the other guy!
meanwhile, he is volunteering to be the "other guy"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I know you learned a long tome ago that this is a no win situation for him
Sorry, I worded that wrong. Posting the scenario was a great idea. The stupid part is that the owner would even think about not getting the utility involved. The owners mentality that, if he doesn't have the risk and/or options in writing makes him not culpable, is really really stupid. As the contractor you are in a tough spot, considering that you want to keep getting jobs, and you would like to take more of this guys money. Ask yourself ... if I put the owner on notice that this is a safety issue, and if I get all the signatures I can to show that he made the decision anyway, am i still beyond the reach of liability? If someone gets hurt, what's the chances that some scumbag lawyer will name you as a codefendant?
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Tell him its to late to back out of getting Citylight to do their thing with the wires. Only way is to NOT do that side where the wires are.
Tell him " I insist on being as safe as I can be", I'm not going to be made careless or risk the fines involved.
Edited 8/3/2008 1:17 pm ET by USAnigel
I walk away from customers who like to play games with lives and money.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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I have a lot of problems with this entire story.
First of all, there are far too many roofing and siding contractors who are careless about the safety of their crews. Power lines are dangerous - as the occasional death reminds us.
This is why power companies are all too willing to help make the site safe.
I don't know the job site, but those charges, and the job description, seem outrageously high. "Grounding" of a "live" wire, as a safety measure, is something done routinely, every day, multiple times, by every linesman out there. For that matter, so is applying protective blankets and sleeves. Yet, this guy is claiming it will take four men an entire day? My BS alarm is ringing. For that matter, i fail to see what "engineering" there is to be done.
You have to remember where he lives! The city power co. has to make some money off someone!
Before we work around lines we have the power company out to do a site survey.
I get a copy of the report in case occupational health and safety drops by and they send a copy directly to the building owner. They know we have followed the proper procedures and if they have agreed to be responsible for the cost of covering them they know what is necessary.
Maybe City Light could send the guy a copy.
Jon
Russian saying
Maybe you could call the guy at City Light and ask him to mail the owner a copy of his reply to you, calling it a "courtesy notification that your contractor is planning to work near power lines and that the following safety precautions are deemed necessary by City Power before work proceeds."
OK....I just sent the owner this email below and I'm quite sure he's going to have a 5hit hemmorrage when he reads it and I'll probably not get anymore work from him but I am just not comfortable with him attempting to get me in the middle of his problem.
----Original Message-----From: Brad Rodgers
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 10:44 PMTo: Clients- Michael
Subject: FW: Re: 1300 E Olive St
Hi, Michael,
I’m writing regarding access issues that have developed on the west side of the church at 1300 Olive.
As we’ve discussed, you are acting as your own general contractor and I am basically acting as a sub. My contract with you specifically excludes scaffolding from my scope of work. However, I recently called City Light at your request to ask for their safety recommendations related to the power lines and scaffolding clearances on the church’s west side. They came to the site on Friday, and I discussed their recommendations with you in person afterwards, because you are handling the scaffolding decisions. I also received the attached email from City Light when I got home Friday.
Sorry to be writing so late, but I’ve been waiting for my attorney to weigh in and get back to me. At the advice of my attorney, I’m forwarding the email, which includes their cost estimates for procedures they recommend to ensure public safety for your project.
I’ll be happy to discuss this with you Monday.
Best,
BjR
Bradley J. Rodgers LLC A Carpenter in Private Practice http://www.acarpenterinprivatepractice.com/
That looked like it addressed your concerns without any blame assessed.
If he takes issue with that communication - then it's probably best you part ways.
Well done!
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