Replies

1. 
   BobKovacs | Apr 26, 2005 04:22pm | #1

   Like any software package, you'll never get a concensus on which is the "right" program.

   Personally, I'd go with either FastTrack or MS Project.  They're both loaded with some advanced features, while still being easy to use.  If you've got the money to spend, though, I'd go with Primavera- it's a real, professional grade product that probably has more bells and whistles than you need, but what program doesn't these days, right?

   Bob

1. 
   rody | Apr 26, 2005 10:05pm | #2

   Bob is the expert here so listen to him. But here's my 2 cents. In my job, I use both Project and Primavera P3. Even in this industrial setting, the P3 is like using a mainframe to balance your checkbook. It has more advanced features than you will use in a lifetime. It has tremendous features and advantages but a lot will never be used by mere mortals. The MS Project has less horsepower but still more than adequate for most industrial applications. If all you need is a flow chart or Gantt chart with no calculations, Visio is a program that is easy to use and adjust. It will draw the pretty pictures for you but not calculate manpower loading, float time, or show changes if the critical path starts to slip. Its all in what you're looking for.

    Lefty - Lurker without an attitude or a clue

1. 
   BobKovacs | Apr 26, 2005 10:16pm | #3

   When did I become "the expert"?  Not so sure I want that title.....lol.

1. 
   rody | Apr 26, 2005 10:31pm | #4

   I've read some of your stuff. Don't get all humble with us. <g>

   Besides, you answered first. That clinches it.

    Lefty - Lurker without an attitude or a clue

1. 
   123456789 | Apr 27, 2005 02:35am | #5

   Thank you all very much for the suggestions.  I'll check these out.

2. 
   DanT | Apr 27, 2005 06:41pm | #7

   Bob you're the expert in my book!  Rich too.  And handsome.  All of it.  Full of it.  You're the man!  :-)  DanT

1. 
   BobKovacs | Apr 28, 2005 01:29am | #8

   Rich?  If I had your money, I'd burn mine.....lol. I will agree with the handsome part, though....

   Bob

3. 
   Matt | Dec 05, 2005 02:57am | #9

   Can I revive this conversation? 

   My boss man wants me to check out scheduling software. (actually it was my idea)

   The business is home building and small apartment building (=< 100 unit).  No remodeling.

   The need is a for a fairly simple, user friendly program that is somewhat inexpensive.  The desired output is mainly hardcopy gaint (sp?) charts and project calendars.  It needs to be M/S PC based (Windows).   For now, no palms, etc.

   I used M/S Project several years ago but don't think it exactly comes under the category of "a fairly simple, user friendly program that is somewhat inexpensive"  I could go with that, and one of my co-workers is already using it, however the apartment project manager would be the main user and on a 1 - 10 of computer literacy, he is about a 1.5. :-)

   Thoughts?

    

   BTW - one problem I had with M/S project was that my gaint chart was so big that I couldn't print it out - unless I wanted to tape about 8 pieces of paper together...  Maybe I had too much detail in it...

   Edited 12/4/2005 7:13 pm ET by Matt

1. 
   BobKovacs | Dec 05, 2005 02:27pm | #10

   Matt-

   I don't know how simple you want it to be, but scheduling software doesn't really get much simpler than Project.  If you want a reality check on how simple Project is, try using Primavera P3 for a while, and you'll grow to love Project's "simplicity"....lol.

   If you get into software that's much less expensive, it probably won't give you the functionality you need- especially for a 100-unit apartment project.  As far as the computer literacy problem goes, that's an issue with a lot of old-school supers- they just want to go "build stuff"- they continue to write notes of scraps of drywall, use their "experience" to tell them when things should be done, etc.  Sometimes there's no getting around that, but sometimes all it takes is a 1-day training session.

   Regarding your Gannt chart getting too big, you can do one of several things:

   - Reset the timeline to months instead of days- this will at least shrink the output in the horizontal direction.

   - Leave the timescale as is, but crush it down to 80% or so (using "Format" "Timescale")- this will have the same effect as above, but not as dramatic.

   - Set the printer to print to one-page wide, which will make the text microscopic.

   - Get a larger printer.  If you're currently printing to 8 1/2x11 paper, go to 11x17.  If you're already using 11x17, go to 18x24.  I can tell you that 11x17 is fine even for the multi-year, $100 million projects we do, so you shouldn't need to go bigger than that.

   Bob

2. 
   Matt | Dec 05, 2005 02:59pm | #11

   Thanks Bob - that is exactly what I wanted to know...

   BTW - would you say AEC FastTrack is easier or harder to learn/use than MS Project?  I know - it's a little hard to say how easy it is to learn to drive a particular model car, when you have been driving for 20 years.... ;-)  Perhaps from your observations of other people...  The reason I ask is that FastTrack is cheaper.

   In my company out of 8 supers (including the PM) 2 of us are computer literate.  The other guys use almost exclusively pencil and paper, although we have a piece of software called Basic Builder that everyone is supposed to use to build and track project budgets and print budget reports.  The PM uses Excel to do project estimating (I think that is what he uses it for).  The office people including my boss man are more computer literate but their jobs are very different.  We don't have a large printer and likely will not be getting one.

   BTW - I'm no Einstein by any stretch but do have a old and dusty degree in Computer Information Systems, so at least I can talk the talk.

3. 
   BobKovacs | Dec 05, 2005 06:33pm | #12

   Honestly, I haven't used FastTrack much, so I really can't comment.   It's a matter of seeing if the program has all of the features you need, and if so, going with it.

   Like most software, the key is getting the right data input in the first place.  If you're guys can't schedule properly using CPM methods, your computer generated schedules won't be worth much- garbage in, garbage out.  95% of the "paper" schedules I've seen supers use are just a bunch of tasks linked end-to-end, with little thought given to the true inter-relationships between the tasks.   Make sure the paper schedules are correctly linked before you start using any scheduling software- you're in for a rude awakening if you don't.

   Bob

4. 
   icektruth | Dec 06, 2005 12:24am | #13

   I'll jump in on this b/c I use or have sued all of these programs in my line of work (military/defense engineering).

   Primavera Suretrak - Northrup Grumman uses it to schedule the construction of aircraft carriers.  The "mainframe to balance your checkbook" is a great quote.  This is a tough progrma to learn.  You get a library of books to go with it and they recommend taking courses.

   Visio - Pretty good program.  does some wierd things but for whay you are talking it would be an option.

   Project - I will be the first one to bash some of Microsoft's stuff but it the right choice 80% of the time.  Biggest advantage is "scalability".  You can start small (basic gant charts) and and stay or jump into doing some cost analysis, tracking performance measures, etc.  And it works with all of the other MS stuff.

   My vote is Project.

    

5. 
   Matt | Dec 06, 2005 02:01am | #14

   Yea - I think I'm leaning toward recommending Project, but let me ask a Q: VISIO?  As in what is now MS Visio?  The drawing program?  Enlighten me...

6. 
   icektruth | Dec 06, 2005 06:53am | #17

   You started me thinking hard on that question.  Visio is a drawing program.  We use an aftermarket plug in to do some schedule charting on Visio.  Sorry... scratch that as an option.  There is another one the folks down the hall use that I will ask them about.    Project is tough to beat.

7. 
   Matt | Dec 16, 2005 01:30pm | #19

   Has anyone here used AEC FastTrack?

8. 
   JerraldHayes | Dec 16, 2005 05:35pm | #20

   Yes we use AEC FastTrack and I like it very much. Anything in particular you would like to know about it?

   View Image

9. 
   Matt | Dec 17, 2005 02:13am | #21

   Yes, thank you.

   1) How easy is it to learn?  Some of the superintendents where I work are not "computer people".

   2) Does it have the capability to send faxes or E-mail to subcontractors?  If so, is this just fully automatic, or can you set it up so it prompts you or otherwise lets you "gate" the communications to make sure that they do not go out in error in the unlikely event ;-) that the schedule gets behind and the electronic scheduler is not updated?

   TIA

   PS: please read my post above: 57472.10

   Edited 12/16/2005 6:15 pm ET by Matt

10. 
    JerraldHayes | Dec 17, 2005 07:44am | #22

    Matt - "PS: please read my post above: 57472.10"

    Okay Matt I'll give all this a shot.

    "My boss man wants me to check out scheduling software. (actually it was my idea)"

    I like that. I am a project management & scheduling guy from way back and consult on it with other contractors.

    "The business is home building and small apartment building (=< 100 unit). No remodeling."

    Doesn't really matter what your business is Project Management is Project Management no matter if you are talking about building the space shuttle or a small addition. However there are nuances and differences to single project management (scheduling) vs. multi project management (scheduling).

    "The need is a for a fairly simple, user friendly program that is somewhat inexpensive..."

    View ImageI do think AEC Fastrack fits that bill although there is another program I recently learned about that depending on how you need to deploy your solution could be even less expensive. Still I think getting up and running on AEC Fastrack is generally quick and easy. Although then again it is just a tool and how well it gets used is really dependent on the real PM skills your users have. you might want to have your people check out David Pierce's Project Management and Management for Construction if you can find it.

    "The desired output is mainly hardcopy gaint (sp?) charts and project calendars...."

    I think you are referring to is what's known as a Gannt Chart. If your printing out hard copy why do you think you need to print out big giant copies of the whole schedule? More often that not you only need a small sections of it maybe a couple of weeks worth that are relative to the issues or resources you are dealing with. Besides by the time you've gotten a week or two into a big huge printed schedule it needs to be changed and revised and is probably no longer relevant.

    "It needs to be M/S PC based (Windows). For now, no palms, etc."

    Well AC Fasttrack is cross platform and runs on Windows or a Mac and also there is another application they have for using it on a Palm if you get around to wanting that option.

    "I used M/S Project several years ago but don't think it exactly comes under the category of "a fairly simple, user friendly program that is somewhat inexpensive" I could go with that, and one of my co-workers is already using it, however the apartment project manager would be the main user and on a 1 - 10 of computer literacy, he is about a 1.5. :-)"

    I do think AEC Fastrack is certainly more user friendly and less intimidating than MS Project but someone with a 1.5 compute literacy rating? Well I don't know for sure about that. But you could then again be over stating your problem out of caution.

    "BTW - one problem I had with M/S project was that my gaint chart was so big that I couldn't print it out - unless I wanted to tape about 8 pieces of paper together... Maybe I had too much detail in it..."

    You can just collapse the elements or timeline of the schedule that don't want to display

    "1) How easy is it to learn? Some of the superintendents where I work are not "computer people"."

    Like I said I do think it's pretty easy and certainly less intimidating that MS Project or any of the other more advanced solutions such as Primavera and that ilk but it still will take some practice and training to get up and running effectively.

    "2) Does it have the capability to send faxes or E-mail to subcontractors? If so, is this just fully automatic, or can you set it up so it prompts you or otherwise lets you "gate" the communications to make sure that they do not go out in error in the unlikely event ;-) that the schedule gets behind and the electronic scheduler is not updated?"

    Well we're a Macintosh operation so when we fax stuff it's really a function of the OSX system software so that's never been an issue for us. But then again AEC just came out with a new upgrade and we only got it a week or so ago and I don't have it on this machine so I can't tell you if there is that kind of utility built into it now. I do however know that you can send make and then email .ics calendar files from within the program because I just got one from one of my guys using the new program yesterday.

    I'll let you know more as soon as I get up and running on the new version maybe sometime this coming week. Anyway you should check out the demo they have and see for yourself. The user manual they give you too I think is one of the better user manuals out there too.

    View Image

11. 
    Matt | Dec 18, 2005 04:59pm | #23

    Jerrald:

    Thanks much for your replies.  I just downloaded the demo version of AEC FasTrack but have not yet used it.  I'm really not sure if it is a regular version with an expiration or if it is just some pre-setup demo charts, etc that is more like advertising stuff, but I will see.  I hope it is a full blown version so I can actually see what it is like to get it set up and use it a bit.

    Re your statement: >> I do think AEC Fastrack is certainly more user friendly and less intimidating than MS Project but someone with a 1.5 compute literacy rating? Well I don't know for sure about that. But you could then again be over stating your problem out of caution. <<

    Your statement about user friendly was exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.  And, Yea, I'm probably understating my co-worker's ability.  I think a lot of people can learn to use computer applications and function quite well with them without actually understanding how the computer really works - probably most people.  I'm kinda of a dual functioned guy in that respect, so I may underestimate other people.

    Re the book: Project Management and Management for Construction thanks for that suggestion.  I took a hard look at it on Amazon - you know - they let you look at the table of contents and a few pages... Looks pretty dry - like a text book.  Normally I'd just order it right off of Amazon, but I'm a bit paranoid if I would end up using it or not, so I'm either going to check a local library or go to one of the local big book stores and get them to order it.  They will special order it and then you get to look at it, but are not committed to buying it.  I'm more of a visual and learn by doing kind of guy but the book definitely looks like an authoritative resource. 

12. 
    Renoun | Dec 06, 2005 04:57am | #15

    I went looking last year for simple single user project managment programs and liked Plan Bee the best of what I tried. I would suggest that you download a copy <http://www.guysoftware.com/planbee.htm> and see if it will fit your needs. It is shareware with a 30 day trial so you could easily mock up a job or two.

13. 
    Matt | Dec 06, 2005 06:41am | #16

    Looks interesting.  Did you end up using it?  Very extensively?  Can you generate a calendar printout with it?

14. 
    Renoun | Dec 06, 2005 10:52am | #18

    RE: Plan BeeI used it to get started with my last major project. I mostly used it for working out depenencies (ducts before pipes before wires) and general scheduling. I didn't have the estimating skills to use it as effectively as I hoped. I am about to undertake a couple of larger projects and I'll probably end up buying a copy.

2. 
   daveinnh | Apr 27, 2005 03:07am | #6

   I'd agree with Bob.  Last time I checked, both the MS Project & Primavera Suretrac were in the ~$5-600 range.  One annoying aspect of Project (at least in older versions) is that it doesn't take a "backwards pass" to truly calculate float.  You may not need to use and know this feature right away, but when you want to have more than say 50 tasks, I becomes annoying when the program does'nt check "hanging activities" that don't ultimately connect to the "end" of the project.

   Why not ask for a demo CD or download a trial program? Be sure sure to compare the programs for how resources are entered and tracked too.