Guess it’s about time I posted some of this stuff considering all the effort that was expended by my fellow BTers to teach me how.
This is the screen porch portion of a large remodel I’ve been doing for my brother and sis-in-law. Eventually I’ll post the whole job, but I’m still formatting and organizing the pictures. Understand, these weren’t initially taken with the thought that they would be used in this capacity, so they might not be as thorough or detailed as they should be.
I’ll do my best to explain as I go.View Image
Wow, that time stamp is a reality check!!
I work exclusively solo, so certain tasks move pretty slow. Drop-girder design, let-in to the posts makes it a little easier for one person.
Through-bolted with pairs of 1/2in. carriage bolts.
Banded and ready for blocking and subfloor.
Adding the 8×16 connector deck that gets us around the corner to a 16×30 which is now replaced.
That was the easy part. Now the real fun begins. Left as much of the overhang intact as possible. Summer T-storms in SW VA can be brutal, almost tornado-like at times.
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Knocked down the size a bit for the dial-uppers (like myself).
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Single full view door to be added in lieu of the existing windows when we do the kitchen; which is next month.
Rafter tails have been cut flush w/ sheathing, all nails underneath pulled or cut. Will cut two 7 in. pockets in roof to accept porch walls.
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Screened in area will be 16x16.
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The first of 2 extraordinarily heavy walls. Soaking wet 6x6's, and bone-dry 2x6's for the box beam. Just tacked the 6x6's that make up the door opening so they can be adjusted to DAP after wall is up.
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These are the situations where I seriously question the sanity of working alone.
Edited 1/18/2007 10:04 pm ET by davidhawks
Edited 1/18/2007 10:22 pm ET by davidhawks
My God David, your a master at this picture thing!
Nice work and keep the pics comming.
Doug
helping him with picture posting was well worth it..Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
nice series... got Proctors for the wall lift ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
All day at work I was thinking about posting some smart remark tonite indicating a trip to RI to borrow yours for my next project. Can't believe you beat me to the punch!
I've never actually seem a set--only in books and mags. Was checking out your "Quarter Deck" thread last night where ya'll used them to raise a pair of LVL's. Thinking back over the last 2 decades, I can't count the times I could have used them for that purpose alone. You'd think that being a one-man operation I'd have realized their worth long ago. I'll be on the lookout for a used set from now on.
Thanks
Good work David.
Glad you figued out the posting pictures.
Chuck S.live, work, build, ...better with wood
Glad you were/are so willing to help. Thanks again.
I think this is where I had to make a decision between getting help or just being stupid, stubborn, and reckless. The rational me prevailed.
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I like using the metal straps like M. Smith also, but these needed to be slid 2 feet to the house once raised. Used blocks, but secured w/ 4" screws rather than nails. I doubt it would have mattered if they were lagged; if this thing had started sliding--look out!!
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This is but one of the reasons I love box beams--hidden fasteners. 5/8"x6".
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A little thought goes a long way towards tying the corners together solidly.
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With the end tied in it's time to raise the ridge.
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This can be tricky flying solo. It's all in the birdsmouth cut.
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David,
Good job righting that wall. I use a similar box beam detail. It is a great way to tie in the corners.
What kind of lumber did you use for the bottom plates?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
2x6 SPF for the sole. Not to worry, it's all getting flashed and covered.
David,
Your job looks good. Most BT'ers are not contractors or builders. Many Diy'ers and armchair wannabes. I could probably name them, but won't. They know who they are.
You should click on your name and edit your profile as to where you are at. Different parts of the country have different practices and methods. You have a lot to contribute to BT.
Chuck S.
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Edited 1/20/2007 10:54 pm ET by stevent1
Most BT'ers are not contractors or builders
Most? Really?
That doesn't even seem right. I was under the impression that this forum was/is an accurate representation of our peers. Of course the wannabes are here, but I'm still humble enough to remember my first day too.
In fact, I'm the rookie all over again when it comes to this laptop.
Never stop learning, never stop teaching.
The more I learn, the more I realize how much I do not know.
live, work, build, ...better with wood
I resemble that remark!!!
Many Diy'ers and armchair wannabes
J raises his hand.
Thanks to all you guys that do the picture threads. It is my favorite part of BT.
Good job homeboy, Ive been up there in your neighbor hood
for a couple of days,I have been house/pup sitting , my old man
went to wythville for a small operation- ended up being airlifted
to Roanoke,so ive been looking after his Jack Russel. welp is
your brother satisfied with the job your doing for him? looks
good to me.
Moving right along. 2x8's bracing the boxbeam until I install the ceiling joists/collar ties.
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By leaving this "hook" on the birdsmouth, I'm able to singlehandedly raise some fair-sized roof systems.
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To the far right is a 28x20 master suite addition and 16x20 deck. More details on that in an upcoming thread. Stay tuned!
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This roof pocket detail should look familiar to you Chuck.
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As you can see (date stamp), we moved inside for about 3 months to gut out some (3) paneled rooms, rewire, and go back w/ drywall. H.O. wanted that part complete for the holidays, understandably.
This is pretty much how it sat while I was inside. This may be the first week back on it, when I closed up the soffits and started the kneewalls.
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I know, I know, but my brother (customer) is 6' 8" tall. This is what it had to be to maximize the "view".
I despise overhangs that SHOULD line up but DON'T.
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Starting the vinyl. Not my fave choice, but then again, not really my choice at all.
Not at all happy with the dawg lot either. They coulda waited until I was gone at least.
Good work David,
Additions have many more issues than building a new house.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
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Siding complete and railing filled in.
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Homeowner responsible for cleanup--falling behind. I'm still not liking the dawg-lot.
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The ends of the 7/16" OSB sheathing are wrapped with alum. coil stock prior to fastening. Vinyl set flush to that to finish nice.
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The deck we replaced on this end was an old DIY job stained a redwood color. Hideous! They now have 1460 sq. ft. of pressure treated deck that will unfortunately never be properly maintained.
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Waiting on BI so I can start finishing the inside.
About time to wrap this thing up. I can sense the interest waning.
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Elected to strap rather than block; ceiling always ends up flatter.
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#2 rough-sawn cedar for the knee wall cap.
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David,
Nice details. Are you going to use a screen system or just battons?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Chuck,
I've been all over the map on what to do. First I was gonna have screen panels made, then talked to a guy in CT who advertises in FHB (great product, cost prohibitive), H.O. also wants glass panel to create a 3-season enviornment.
Finally I just decided to intstall the 2x2's and strech screen myself. About the glass, heck I don't know. Very poor planning on this item. Mostly on my part. I assumed products available than aren't. Not at the cost I estimated anyway.
Now looking at triple sliders from my local window manufacurer. Still gonna be 2500.00. Got any ideas??? I'm all ears.
David,2500 for sliders does not sound too bad. It will give them a 3 season room and can get used on the suny 65' days in the winter. I have made removable glass panels and they were a PITA to store, swap out in the spring and fall. Your BIL has a lot invested in this house and will not look back if he goes for the triple tracks. With that tall ceiling, they can put a 10' Christmas Tree in there.I used to work with a guy who was west of you. Jerry was from Big Stone Gap and his wife, Lula Bell was from Dufield. Whwn we visit family in Maryland we try to stay at Natural Bridge and eat at the 'Pink Cadillac'.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Edited 1/24/2007 9:54 pm ET by stevent1
Interest waning???.......not a bit here. I read it every day. Nice work. I have enjoyed your project, fer sure.......
one day at a time, dave....still looks like great work
how about a pic of the dog who owns the pen ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I think one of your assistants was spying on me. I was sitting in front of the wood stove, arranging the firebrick. I look up and there's a beagle just strolling right through the house. As if she owned the place. I clapped my hands and said, "OUT" and she turned around, trotted through the kitchen and out the door.
Wish I'd had my camera with me. But she looked suspiciously like your friend:
View Imagejt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
Hey Mike,
how about a pic of the dog who owns the pen ?
Meet Joey, aptly named after a character on a popular NBC sitcom. He owns EVERYTHING at my brother's place. We don't particularly care for each other. Joey thinks he's King Kong on crack.
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Just stuck my head out the window - no wain in sight.
Keep it going full speed
Forrest
Thanks fellas, still feeling my way around here, know what I mean.
More will be revealed.
Just because you're not getting replies doesn't mean folks aren't tuning in.
jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
David,
Dittos on what JohnT8 said.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Now that I'm able to use the porch as a work/staging area, I've decided to begin the dining room/kitchen phase of this remodel. First order of business is to create a convenient access.
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I added some exterior light fixtures for a lady last week and was horrified to discover that there are builders around who still use this asphalt impregnated sheathing.
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Here I cut it back and added in 7/16" OSB where the door will be fastened.
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This wing wall is the termination point for a 202" run of cabinetry once the old partition to the left is removed.
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On the other side of the new door is a small pantry/broom closet.
David,
Looks Good.
We used nail base back in the 70s with a let in 1x6 at the corners on brick veneer homes.
202" is a long run of cabinets. What type of counter?
Chuck S.live, work, build, ...better with wood
The cabinets they're having made come with standard laminate tops, but I think I've persuaded them to spend the extra 2K for granite. Heck, they've put almost 6 figures into this place since I started last May; why skimp now?
I know what you mean about the let-in diag. 1x6, but what is "nail base"?
David,
That asphalt impregnated sheathing is one form of nail base. One brand was 'CELOTEX'. The the tract home builders used it as sheathing for aluminum or vynal siding. Real junk IMHO, but meets codes in a lot of juristicions.
Chuck S.live, work, build, ...better with wood
I know Celotex, that foil-faced crap. You confused me (easy to do) when you said "nail base". Kind of a misnomer since a cotton ball would hold a nail better than either of those products.
BTW, when was the last time "code" was good enough for you? uh huh.
FWIW THe "blackboard" (like Celotex) is a sheating that is designed to add more water resistance, some insulation value and a continuous surface with some racking resistance, NOT to hold nails.
It beats the hell outta 1/8" aluminum coated radiant barrier "sheathing" often used in this area.
The studs hold nails. Troy Sprout
Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it."-- Thomas Sowell
I hear you Troy, and in a perfect world everything would be stud-nailed. Ever try to fasten a railing, light fixture, or shutters to a building that's soft-sheathed, not blocked, and studs not where you need them? I'm sure you have. Frustrating.
My biggest complaint with those "soft" sheathings is that they offer zero resistance to studs twisting. That may sound insignificant, but I've seen the nails pulled completely through the products I'm condemning.
I understand that the function of sheathing isn't to prevent stud twist, but properly nailed, rigid sheathing such as OSB or CDX ply. will do just that, and it simply results in a building with greater structural integrity.
David,I agree with you on the soft sheathing. I may be wrong but, I wonder how much influence manufaturers have in setting codes. I get a kick out of seeing houses built with just metal diagonal braces on the corners, then covered in 1/4" foam products. Major builders will argue that continuous ply or OSB sheathing would greatly add to the cost of a home, but OSB is under $5.00 here in GA right now. Three years ago it was over $15.00. Some parts of the country require very rigid codes because of wind zones and siesmic pressure but for the most part modern construction is just about how fast it can be done.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
I may be wrong but, I wonder how much influence manufaturers have in setting codes.
Good question Chuck. My guess is that they have professional lobbyists on their payroll just like any other well-oiled machine.
Finally got the sliders in over the weekend. First had to remove the PT 2x2's that I had planned to attach the screen to before electing to make the porch 3-season. One day I'll learn NOT to suggest every idea that crosses my mind. Actually this probably worked out for the best.
Thanks Chuck, for talking me into it.
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I ordered the units VERY snug so I could install w/o a helper. After getting them bumped into place I fastened 2" rough-sawn cedar casings to hold the outside.
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I thought I'd made it clear to my dist. that these were to have FULL screens but apparently I didn't. Half screens come standard on these units but he ordered the fulls today. Said they'd be 15-20 bux each.
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Inside I ripped 3/4 square stops for all four sides. Casing and stops all have a bead of sealant behind them.
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The big 4x8 "triples" on the gable end aren't really triples at all since the center half is fixed. H.O. says okay since the wind is always a crossbreeze back there anyway. The high-performance glass should keep 'em from cooking.
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Need one more 50 degree day to finish drying the cedar then I'll run a nice bead of almond around the stops and casings. Glad they're finally in, even if it means I'm gradually losing my "shop space".Live in the solution, not the problem.
Looks like a nice room to sit in.
Forrest
David,
Those sliders look good. They look like they were part of the plan, not a change-order. I like the trim detail on the inside.
Are they going to paint the porch?
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
I sure hope the finish nails into the treated ACQ were stainless! And the aluminum sliders were separated from the corrosive effects of ACQ !
I would hate to see a beautiful job fall off the posts in a few years.
..............Iron Helix
All right, what the he!! is the deal with the ACQ? I've been out of the building loop for about 5 years until last Spring. Didn't even know the PT was different these days. I keep seeing threads with opinions about this stuff and the supposed "proper" fasteners. Stainless exclusively? They can't be serious.
Care to give me the short version on what all the hoopla is about.
Thanks
David--clueless???????
IH, just checked your profile, if anybody knows this stuff it should be you.
BTW, the window jambs are vinyl not aluminum.
Live in the solution, not the problem.
Edited 2/28/2007 8:43 pm ET by davidhawks
Late & long day....will write in the AM, meanwhile try the search for ACA, treated Etc,....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Iron Helix
David,
ACQ lumber (Alkaline Copper Quarternary) replaced CCA lumber (Copper Chromates Arsenic) 01.01.2004. Environmentalists ('nough said).
Stainless fasteners are recomended. Hot dipped galvanized can be used in certain applications.
I think Sphere posted a pic or thread showing 2 year old joist hangers that had deteriorated. Google ACQ Lumber. Chances are if you used an good adhesive caulk behind the vinyl, once that cures, the fasteners do little to hold it.
I feel we will see many construction failures dealing with ACQ in the future. I used SS wedge bolts in 'Small Addition'. $6.35 each.
Once again. The wood products industry did not do enough to inform the public. Wholesalers, retailers and manufacturers unloaded obsolete fasteners rather than pull their products. Fine Homebuilding Magazine was on top of it in a timely manner. Someone could make a good buck going to townhouse Homeowner's Associations and replace all deck joist hangers and rim bolts.
Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Edited 2/28/2007 10:38 pm ET by stevent1
Edited 2/28/2007 10:39 pm ET by stevent1
Please take the time to look up message 83510.11 for a detailed description of the corrosion process that occurs with standard steel fastners and ACQ lumber.
An advanced search for ACQ, treated lumber, or corrosion will also garner a number of past discussions.
I'm glad to hear that the windows are vinyl...aluminum and ACQ do not agree with each other and the aluminum is rapidly corroded away.
What type of fasteners did you use in the wall frame and post & frame assembly?
What type of fasteners did you use for the finish surfaces and trims that were adjacent to treated lumber?
If you used regular finish nails or drywall screws in contact with the ACQ lumber you may find that they will soon corrode away, especially where there is a chance for the area to be above 18-20% moisture content...sills, plates, exterior trim, exposed posts, etc.
...........Iron Helix
Thanks for the input, and I apologize if my first response came across a little coarse. So often people tend to get a "the sky is falling!!!" mindset over issues like this and the cynic in me can't help but wonder how much of that reaction is actually merited.
In EVERY case where I nailed to the treated lumber I used Maze brand hot-dipped galv. fasteners, or #8 Grip-Rite decking screws. Inside, where I used my trim gun, those connections are all cedar-to-cedar.
The beam-to-post connections however, are made with a pair of zinc lags 5/8x6". They are well protected inside the box-beam.
Guess I'll be reading the literature on the containers that my fasteners came in when I get to the job today.
ThanksLive in the solution, not the problem.
It seem insane to me that the folks brewing up the ACQ didn't think it would be a problem that their witches' brew eats steel. Talk about designing for failure.
jt8
"The flower that follows the sun does so even on cloudy days."--Robert Leighton
What's crazier is that I've never seen the first notification posted at any of the lumberyards or box-stores that I frequent.
Live in the solution, not the problem.
Yes, you receive a notice with every board that you buy!
Take a look at that little tag on the end of almost every treated board. The side facing you tells the species, type and amount of the treatment used in the board, and what treating facility did the work.
IF YOU TEAR THE TAG OFF CAREFULLY AND READ THE BACK (fat chance of that happening) you will be apprised of the corrossive effects of the lumber that you have bought!
I'm afraid that the Grip-Tite deck screws are not the correct choice for longevity in ACQ....the only screws I have found to be reliable are stainless! I've also not seen hot dipped galvanized screws, with the exception of lags.
The zinc plated lags will soon corrode, but due to their large diameter, will not be supposedly structurally effected.
Your best shot at this point is to be diligent and watch for signs of failure in the future...3-5 years. Keep things dry as possible!
Still a nice project!.................Iron Helix
IronHelix,
What can I safely use to isolate the aluminum from the ACQ when I go to mount the 2 storm doors to the 6x6's? Would a layer of Grace or a similar membrane be adequate?
Adjusting the R.O. to accomodate jamb liners of a 3/4 non-treated product isn't an option in this case. Suggestions?
DavidLive in the solution, not the problem.
we use a lot of Grace as isolaters to keep our aluminum flashings from ACQ contact...
youse guys are right .. this ACQ nightmare is just getting startedMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
As noted in the prior post the grace products will work, although a little cumbersome (too thick to manipulate) for a storm door z-bar.
Currently I see 30# felt, pvc membrane, 6mil or better polyethylene, edpm, and bituminuous asphalt (spray on or brush on) being used as a separatin barrier.
Spray on car undercoating works nicely, too!
In an unusual situation the contractor was allowed to use a "handle dipping" product to coat the backside of an aluminum part.
Chose one that will work for your application.
Most screws that come with a storm door kit are not SS...check them out, if a magnet attracts them, then they are steel and need to be replaced by SS.
.............Iron Helix
Edited 3/16/2007 7:27 am by IronHelix
Thanks to you and Mike S. for the feedback and suggestions. I may go back to the drawing board on this one.
Just occurred to me; I can't fir the opening IN due to the R.O. requirements, but I could pad it OUT with the same 3/4 material I cased the windows with. Then, attach the door and z-bars to that material rather than the treated.
Thanks again!Live in the solution, not the problem.
Standing the door "proud" of the 6x6 on cedar would work well...add s/s nails for the furring strips and then set the storm on top....great!
...............Iron Helix
Thank you for directions to the VERY informative posts. Not sure what I can do at this point other than pray a lot.
Disgusted! Live in the solution, not the problem.
Once again. The wood products industry did not do enough to inform the public.
When those failures do occur, I hope people line up at the feeding trough like they did for Qest pipe. This is total BS!!!Live in the solution, not the problem.
Super! Keep 'em coming.
Forrest - sucker for picture-build threads
A couple questions:
1. What's the foundation for the posts?
2. Why have the joists run parallel to the house? Wouldn't it have been easier to have one drop girder parallel to the ledger out at the perimeter and then have the joists perpendicular to the house (hanging from the ledger and sitting on top of the drop girder at the other end)?
Eric,
The footings are 16" square by 24" deep. Each pier has two 80# bags of readymix (Quickcrete, I think), and a number 4 rebar protruding approx. 6" to recieve the bottom of the post. This makes it easier for me to align them working alone, and dramatically reduces the chance of them ever shifting.
I don't give much respect to all the fancy post anchoring hdwr. on the market. If the post is left at least 6-8 inches below grade, then properly backfilled, nothing short of a good-sized tractor is going to move it.
There's probably very little structural logic to my answer to your second question, but I'll put it out there anyway. I simply like to keep joists and rafters paralell. Most of the houses I've been involved with over the years were designed that way and it's just one of those things that stuck with me. Funny thing, this is the one job that I almost went the other way and did it exactly like you said.
Thanks
Edited 1/22/2007 7:05 pm ET by davidhawks
This might be clearer than my explanation.
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