Does anyone have any experience with vertically sliding window panels which would slide down and disappear into the kneewall, leaving only screen panels? This idea won’t work with an existing porch because it requires some special framing and a certain distance above ground level. I’ve been playing with this idea for years but can’t quite figure out the details.
This company http://www.weatherwallsystems.com/ uses a similar concept. The WeatherWall system basically uses 4 rectangular panels which are one in front of each other in a vertical track system. When the system is open, the bottom quarter of the opening is obscured by the stacked panels. When the panels are closed, the view is obscured by the horizontal members of the 4 panels.
My thoughts are these:
1) The outside wall(s) of the porch would have to be cantilevered slightly beyond the foundation so the window panels could slide below floor level and disappear into the knee wall.
2) The window openings would be framed like doors with headers and posts, but the floor joists directly below the openings would be shorter than the ones below the posts. The posts would rest on the longer joists, thereby supporting the load. Directly below the openings you would frame a header, nailing into the ends of the short joists and into the sides of the long joists, thereby creating a pocket for the window panel.
3) The subfloor would be installed on the joists up to the inside edge of the posts, thereby preserving the pocket.
4) The kneewall inside and out could be sheathed as normal, with some intermediate framing. Haven’t quite figured out the framing.
5) The window panels could either be friction fit in vertical tracks or counterweighted somehow. The vertical tracks would be fastened to the sides of the posts and they would extend from the header below the floor. As for the counterweight idea, I thought you could attach stainless cables to the top outermost corners of the panels, over a pulley near the header, and then to some sash weights. The sash weights could be hidden in a pocket on the outside of the posts, or using the stainless cable and pulleys they could be situated practically anywhere as long as there was enough vertical travel for the weight. The weights would be adjusted so the windows slide up when released and when you want them down there would be a friction lock to hold them in the down/closed position.
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The major drawback with any system that has the windows dissappear into the knee wall is that, unless it's a fully engineered, big$$ setup, you will never get a decent waterseal at the kneewall.....
Yes that occurred to me too.
I think it wouldn't be any different than a car window though. It slides up and down into the car door and there's weatherstripping on the outside of the door to prevent water from entering the door. If water does get in, there are weeping holes on the bottom of the door to allow it to drain.
Picture an 9" x 12" envelope, slit open on the 2 short sides, and the window as a piece of letter size paper sliding within the envelope. In my application, the pocket the window operates in would be open at the bottom, so with the window closed, driving rain would hit the glass and fall directly down out the bottom. I would cover the bottom with screen to stop bugs, bats, etc.
The innermost face of the envelope/pocket could be sheathed with waterproof membrane, building wrap, tar paper etc. to prevent infiltration to the inside
Well, that's sort of exactly my point....a car window is a high dollar, manufactured (not site built) item, and even then lots of door panel rust out from the inside.....
I sympathize with your design desire...I have a similar situation, an old sunroom where some of the glazing frames are wearing out, with no source of replacement parts...and all the glass wall systems or sunroom systems I've looked at are either very expensive, or much leass open (thicker framing members) than my current setup...
My own house (built in 1903) has a second story "sleeping" porch with the kind of window system you're talking about.
They used light weight, double hung windows with sash weights -- and both the top and bottom window slide down into the knee wall. The sill/stool is hinged, and once the windows are pushed down, the sill is closed. Each window is fitted with lift-up rings, so you can pull the window back out of the knee space.
They used bronze or brass chains for the sash weights, instead of rope.
There are full length, traditional wood screens on the outside (no muntins).
When all the windows are open, the effect is terrific.
However, the weak point is the hinged sill. In order to open and close around the window stops, there is a space on either side, and rain water will fall into the knee space. When I rebuilt the porch, I treated the inside of the kneewalls like an exterior space -- paint, weep holes, etc. That seems to keep whatever moisture that gets into the knee space under control.
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Tony.....just curious as to what exactly you are looking to achieve?
Are kneewalls absolutely necessary to your design? Or are you incorporating them solely to accomodate the "hiding" of the storm panels?
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I am building a second home on our island on Lake of the Woods, Canada. The site has tremendous long views of the water, and I want build a verandah to take advantage of that. Other camps (that's what we call private vacation homes around here) have various solutions, none of which I like. Most people use rollup blinds of some kind, either clear or opaque fabric, or steel eg http://www.stormshutters.com/rolling-shutters/rolling-shutters.html.
These do the job but in the case of the opaque fabric and the steel blinds, when they're closed obviously there's no view. The clear fabric (like the plastic used in side curtains in boat tops) works for a while but after about 2 years it's become opaque from the UV damage.
I've also seen heavy duty Venetian blinds mounted on the outside but they look terrible and get blown around, even with guide wires.
In an effort to extend the seasons on the verandah, I'm trying to come up with a solution which would allow us to use the verandah in inclement weather. (There's something quite exciting about watching thunderstorms on the water.)
In answer to your question about the kneewalls, their only purpose really is to hide the glass panels when they're down. I guess you could have the windows slide right down to floor level, but then the verandah would have to be that much higher off the ground to accomodate the windows in the down position.
Thanks everybody for the great ideas!
In answer to your question about the kneewalls, their only purpose really is to hide the glass panels when they're down.
OK....had a feeling that was it.
Here`s a suggestion that might help achieve what you`re looking to accomplish. (In an effort to extend the seasons on the verandah, I'm trying to come up with a solution which would allow us to use the verandah in inclement weather.)
I`ve done a few screened porches (three season rooms) using readily available wood storm doors. They come in the typical sizes regularly available...2'0" - 6'8" thru 3'0" - 6'8".(Perhaps even by 7'0") Using sizes that work best for the layout, I use 2 x 4 framing to accomodate the doors which will be set as "panels". The doors are affixed permanently, and the screens can be swapped with storm glass depending upon the season.
If I`m not clear here, let me know.
Just a thought.
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just a thought, if you had the window go up into the top ( like attic or whatever)instead of knee wall then moisture would not hurt