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As a fastener supplier, I’ve seen many types of construction wood screws offered in the market place. Characteristics vary from: coatings, shank size, drilling tips (type 17/wings), phillips/sq. drive, head configuration, nibs, heat treated, price, brand names.
What are the attributes that the pro’s take into consideration in making their purchase? If you could design the ideal screw, what would it be?
Your feedback would be appreciated.
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Replies
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A slightly thicker shanked coarse and medium thread several different length in the display from inch on up/including 4" self tapping in tin combo sq/Ph and 5/16 nut driving bugle head stainless drywall screw. Oh, and make it tapconable too. If I can think of anything else, I'll let you know. And would you send me the name of the local distributor besides HD. Thank you
*Square drive/torx/allen, anything that won't slip like a phillips.Thick enough not to shear as I'm driving a 4" w/o drilling the hole first but thin enough that I can drive a 4" without drilling a hole first.self lubricating for easy driving.
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Do away with phillips drive
b and
the "combo" drive (they only mess up otherwise superior drives). Having said that, keep the phillips drive ONLY for true drywall screws.
I would like to see much better shear strengths. Hopefully, this can be accomplished with better steel as opposed to thicker shanks.
The bugle-head seems to be a good compromise for most applications but there are times when it would be nice to have a pan-head without having it available only in a sheet metal screw.
Nibs - I never really know how well they work. Seems like if a screw has a coating, the nibs lose their effect. I'm interested in hearing from others on this.
Overall, it would be nice to have a standard for screws. Something you could use to compare the performance of different manufacturers.
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Yet, manufacturing what we want is moot if the supplier is constantly out of stock of the selection, which is often the case - too often. So please create a system of inventory merchandising that is effective, otherwise we're back to buying only what is available.
*I sure would like to see somebody offer a selection of screws that are made in the good old USA instead of Taiwan which is what is mostly available in my area. I have even had screws made specifically for pocket hole joinery that bear the phrase made in taiwan. I won't even tell you how many times I have snapped these screws in two when driving them. Ipresently get my pocket hole screws from McFeeleys in Va. They offer a pocket hole screw they call a "super-8" which is manufactured in Canada and is almost impossible to snap in two like the Taiwanese counterpart and to top it off there is no difference in the price. So tell me who's pocketing the profits gained by using cheap Taiwanese labor? MDM.
*I use a minimum of a #7 deck screw, but much prefer the #8 when I can find them. I will not use anything smaller than a #7 because they will indeed snap like a twig when under a heavy torque load. I use a Quik Driver for decking, and the screws are #8 with a square drive. I even get a new tip with each box of screws.I use bees wax to lubricate the screw before driving. It does not interfere whatsoever in the thread pitch, or the nibs. It also allows the screws to drive quite a bit easier, and this requires less torque and abuse of my screw gun.I personally like the philips head, as long as it is a good, strong one. Most of the Taiwan screw heads strip so easily, if they ever do get driven, and removed, they are no longer useable. I have found a few good brands that are made elsewhere, and the heads last a long time. These screws are epxensive, and hard to get.What I see more and more is the incorrect application of screws. As tradesmen, we complain about the quality of the screws, and the lack of shear strength. Drywall screws are being used more and more for decking applications, wood joinery, and a lot of other uses that they were never intended for. Problem seems to be (at least in my area) the lack of availability of the correct, good quality screws. We wind up having to use whatever is available, and it seems like a lot of those times, it is the wrong choice.My recommendation to any supplier is to keep the correct screws in stock (like Sonny said), keep lots of them in stock, and quit selling the el cheapo home owner arts/craft qaulity screws to us pros. We don't forget who sells crap, and we pass the word along.Just my humble opinion...James DuHamel
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You guys need to check out http://www.grabberman.com/
Unfortunately their screws are manufactured in Tiawan. I've used lots of their screws mostly exterior applications. I've had great luck with them. Long live sq. drive. They offer a wide variety of lengths and finishes. They have several distribution centers across the U.S. They have some very nice drywall products. I've been using their no coat bullnose in my houses. The stuff seems to be great.
Phoenix if you offer any products like grabbers let me know. Especially if their American or Canadian made.
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Personally, I wish that the manufacture and sale of slotted screws would cease. Then, eventually, we will all be able to use our straight screwdrivers as chisels (as they were meant to be used!)
Rich Beckman
*I'd like to start a campaign to banish forever the use or availability of slot head screws. They are awful to remove or install from old or new work with a power driver. I use square drive #10 FHWS from McFeely's for hanging cabinets. I'd like to see deeper threadforms available for use in manmade materials. Where can I find 5" #10FHWS? Apparently nowhere on this rock! Also having difficulty locating 1" Drywall s
*In a previous post I had stated that it seems that many/most all of the prehung doors I deal with have their hinges attached with what appear to be #9 Phillips flathead screws. I have not found a source for these screws.Also, occasionally I need some b long screws. Say 6" #8 or #10 flathead Phillips - HD galvanized to make 'em more all purpose. Along the same line, the longest trim head screws I could find anywhere was 2 5/8" (I think) which didn't help me much for attaching large crown molding to a metal studded walls/top plates.
*Several years ago I used to buy what was called "S" tipped drywall screws with a "hilow" thread (every other thread was hi, every other low). The point of the screw was almost like it had been sliced and 1/2 of it removed. Boy, those things started nice. And the hilow thread made them ideal for using with wood or steel framing. Are those "S" tips still available?Oh, and I'm with Rich Beckman (man! I hate to say that!). Anyone caught using slotted screws should be shot and sent to the Russian front. "Nothink! I know Nothink!"
*My screw tastes and problems are much simpler. Just give me some lengths longer than 4" that I can work with. When I'm trying to attach 1/2" OSB over 3" of rigid a 4" screw doesn't cut it and nobody in town seems able to get me anything longer.(oh ya, and all those other things like high strength, corrosion resistant, good head, no foam, etc.. And if you could find a way to make em so they fly right out of the box and screw themselves in a selectable pattern, I think I would pay more for those)
*Hot topic,Slotted screws are "screws from the dark ages". Personally i like phillips drive it cams out when it should. People are always skipping the predrilling; i try to skip it only when i can get the best results without predrilling. Fasteners are like knives, too hard they break, too soft they don't work, just get em right. Hot dip galvy is the only coating that you know you can trust but, hard to find in bugle headsLastly can't silicon bronze and good stainless be available at a reasonable price?Just some thoughts, joe d
*I really like McFeely's screws. I really like the square drive, and they have a great selection. But Ib hatethe "combo drive" things. The whole idea behind the combo drive was that you could use either a square drive bit, or a phillips bit. But neither work very well, so now they sell a special bit for their combo drive screws. I avoid them like the plague.
*For what I do, the only screw I stock are Hi-lo's , like Jim mentioned, but with a square drive (Canadian invention, by the way, 1907). They are sold as melamine screws, but they work like old heck on anything wood related, and there is no way I would switch, unless it's exterior or whatever, when I will switch to deck screws, which are almost identical. They also have nibs, which do work. #6's for cabinetry, 8's for most everything else. Wood screws are obsolete, with the exception of furniture (it's still nice to see the slots all lined up on those $30 brass butt hinges on that heirloom piece).
*You guys may have invented the square but you got the idea from our rhombus which we invented four years earlier!
*After you fix the problems with screws, work on the boxes. Those thin card stock boxes fall appart if the get damp and don't last very well if they're dry. Get rid of thea clear plastic window that falls out and spills the screws all over the inside of my tool box.I'll pay more for a corrugated cardboard box. I'll pay more than that for a plastic box that will last and last. I keep a plastic tool box of screw boxes in my truck all the time just to make sure I have the one I'll need. The problem is, it's now a tool box full of crumpled boxes with a mixed selection of screws 2" deep in the bottom.
*Yeah, those plastic windows are pointless except for DIY'ers who need to peek to see if the box contains screws or nails.Wouldn't it be nice if Ryan's sturdy boxes came in "industry standard" sizes so they would store and stack in a neat fashion?Wishfully, Steve
*Or how about if the container had a removable top, like a peanut butter can (only smaller) so when you wanted a certain size screw, or two different types, you could remove the lid and place the entire container in your nail bags instead of dumping some in there?
*I usually try to buy my screws in 5 or 25 or even 50 pound boxes (if I can find them). It's a pain to go back and forth to the store for a pound at a time, not to mention the expense of the individual boxes, but not all sizes come in the larger boxes. I built my van storage, in part, to accommodate the smaller boxes so I would have available the largest variety at all times, refillable from the larger boxes which I store in my shop. (More than two pounds of screws will fit in a one pound box). Plus, I can always carry the larger boxes if I plan ahead.A little more consistent quality in all the screws I use would be appreciated. Nothing is more frustrating than being able to wring off the head of a screw when you are putting it in BY HAND to say nothing about the snap, snap, snap sound when using power. Quality control by the manufacturer could probably be enforced if the distributers would just stop buying the inferior product. You know the end users -US- prefer quality. I also agree with others - slotted screws are the pits! AND, has anyone noticed that galvanized deck screws seem to strip out their head slots (phillips) at a faster rate than uncoated screwsWhile we're on the subject of fasteners... Nails in a box... Whatever happened to those finish nails... I used to be able to get nails that wouldn't bend when the wind blew, the points were free of flash and the heads were always there and had the distinct indentation for the nailset.Price? It would be nice to be able to have some input on price, but, we all know that price goes up, not down. Comments? Ralph
*Like Ralph, I buy my screws and nails in large (25# or larger) boxes.I set my van up with shelves to accomodate clear, plastic shoe boxes. You can buy them for about $1.00 at Wal-Mart. They are stackable, and will not move unless you move them yourself. They have different color lids, and I use these as color codes. With the box itself being clear, I can see what's in them (although I do use a white out pen and mark the top and sides anyway)Buying in the larger boxes (I use a LOT of screws) I get a great discount. I pay around $1.40 a pound (#8 deck screws)in the large box, versus $3.50 to $5.00 for a one pound box. BIG DIFFERENCE for me.Just my thought...James DuHamel
*Agree with James DuH that wax (or soap) helps in driving screws, particularly in hard wood. Unfortunately, for me, putting the wax on the screws slows me down to a snails pace. Is there a fast and efficient way of lubing the screws without making them so messy you get it all over?
*Matt,Mr. M'cfeely now has a 3" trim head available. These are a #7 or #8. They come in very handy. Tony
*Casey, I've found that using the standard cake of beeswax is slow, too. Also, the cake gets too hard during cold weather. Another old trick, better suited to wintry conditions, is to use a plumber's wax ring seal... the wax is softer, and you can sort of plug in the screws into the wax and pluck them out as you use them. If you leave the wax ring in its plastic wrapper and save the packing box, you'll keep the wax from getting all over your tools and stuff when you store it away.Good luck, Steve
*Those toilet wax seals are actually bees wax, just processed to stay soft. I use these, as well as a product I get at the local auto parts store. It is a bees wax lubricant used in the transmission rebuilding industry. They are actually tubes of soft bees wax, and are just like the old "push up" ice cream I used to eat as a kid.One method I have found that does not make a mess when actually installing the screw is to use parafin (candle wax) and just slide the screw threads across the wax. Imagine yourself wiping off a knife in a rag. The screw would be the knife, and the wax would be the rag.There are several variables, but I mostly use the toilet wax seal when I use my Quik Drive. I use the coil screws, and they can be dipped in the wax ring quite easily, then inserted in the gun cartridge. Good luck.James DuHamel
*As far as screws go I like phillips heads for drywall and Robertson or square heads for everything else . But I have found lately that sometimes when you buy a driver bit it is a square drive not robertson and there is a differance .Also the same thing sometimes the screws are different . Then the driver does not fit and the screws are wobbly . Sometimes what looks like a phillips bit isn't quite right either . All of this fighting to have your screw the # 1 is great for you but for the guys using them it drives us batty . Why don't all screw manufacturers get together and iorn out standards amoungst them selves . With the way everything is shipped all over the world nowadays . Hopefully we won't end up with the equivelant of Vhs instead of Beta . Hopefully we could end up with the best product being thew dominant product . If it ends up like computers we will be using a inferior product like Windows 98 .
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Jim,
RE containers for fastners that fit in bags.
The wife came up with a good fix for this problem - kiddy cups from Target or whereever. $1.98 for 4.
They fit in both fastner bags of my Oxy Lights. I fact, I can fit a pair in each pouch. The come in sturdy plastic and colors. They have snap-on lids. They work. I now have a gym bag filled with assorted cups and fastners.
ToolBear
*Yeh, death to slotted screws.I'm not a pro like these guys here but I do my share of my share of screwin'.When I'm on a ladder or under a table with one hand holding things in place I like having a square head screw on my drill/driver so I can just push it in and floor the trigger.The only suggestion I can make is to make that square socket just a tad deeper.
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SCREW STORAGE
I use "ZIP LOCK" freezer bags, The kind with the mechanical zipper, (one Quart or one gallon size)
for storing all sizes of screws etc in a section of my toolbox. The bags are cheap, you can see the contents,they nest real well and take up little space and when they get worn they are easy to replace. also the quart size bags are a great replacement for gloves when staining something, just put your hand in the bag and grab the brush or rag.
I use a quart size bag for storing electrical parts like terminals,wingnuts,bullet crimps,screws,staples etc just dump the whole mess on a plastic bag like comes with groceries, twist it up and put it in the bag, this makes it easy to find what you want and put the rest back in the bag.
I use the same system for small plumbing parts like faucet washers,screws hose washers etc.
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Does nobody use the yellow ,I beleive zinc-coated, torx drive screws. They are more expensive than the square drive but far superior in drivability in tough situations and I rarely snap a head off. I only use phillips heads for sheetrock.
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As a fastener supplier, I've seen many types of construction wood screws offered in the market place. Characteristics vary from: coatings, shank size, drilling tips (type 17/wings), phillips/sq. drive, head configuration, nibs, heat treated, price, brand names.
What are the attributes that the pro's take into consideration in making their purchase? If you could design the ideal screw, what would it be?
Your feedback would be appreciated.