I work on 19th century houses most of the time. In some of the earlier houses I come across plank doors and wide-board wainscot that have ripples on the surface from the finish planing.
I would occasionally like to be able to replicate this surface on new lumber in order to patch an area or to make a plank door with it.
To that end I asked for and received a lovely Lie-Nielson scrub plane for Christmas. Looking at though, and after doing some reeding online I’ve come to the conclusion that the scrub plane is not really the right tool for this. It is too aggressive and the radius of he blade is too tight. And the scrub plane wasn’t invented till the late 19th century, so it was not what was producing these surfaces originally anyway.
Anyone here have any experience trying to replicate this look?
It seems grinding a slight camber into the iron of a #5 or #6 Stanley is probably going to give me something closer to what I’m seeing on these early 19th century boards.
Nothing looks crappier than an over-done “hand-planed” effect. I want it to look subtle and authentic.
Steve
Replies
http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/finishing.pl?read=590506
This link may help. From Woodweb, finishing forum titled Hand Hewn Look.
John
I've come across that, too. Looks cool.
They were trying for as smooth as is reasonably possible (it's just a door, not a piece of furniture), so they were pretty subtle in the crowning of the blade. I'd think a scrub plane would be too much.
For furniture, usually just the corners of the blade were dubbed a bit, so that the corners of the iron wouldn't dig in. I'd put on a bit more crown than that, just so someone who was really looking would see it.
Most places I've seen that, rippled effect, I had to point it out to other people, because I knew what to look for.
Do a few test pieces, and have fun!
AitchKay
Since it's your money, and not mine :)
What about one of the rustic heads on the Festool planer? http://www.mcfeelys.com/planer-heads-blades
Given their no questions asked return policy, I suppose at least you could find out if it's going to work for what you envision, and not be out anything if it's not the look you are going for.
Happy New Year to you and Henley!
Best,
Steve
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I almost mentioned that tool as about the ugliest, most fake looking option, but I didn't.That cutter looks like it was designed for the fake-alpine kitsch that is so popular up around Gaylord, MI. Ugh.AitchKay
Well, never having seen it in person, I can't say.But the photos I've seen seem to jive pretty well with the photo on the Lie Nielsen page for their plane.Might still be too artificial, but then isn't any replication going to suffer from the same notion?'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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"Might still be too artificial, but then isn't any replication going to suffer from the same notion?"Good point. I guess my thinking is that it'll work if you're subtle, and don't overdo it. The examples I'm thinking of are ones where a lot of people won't notice it.Another example of hand work that you have to look closely for is turned balusters -- look back and forth between a couple, and the subtle differences will stand out. But people have been walking up and down those stairs for a hundred years, thinking that the balusters are all identical.I remember verbatim a caption in some "craft" type magazine: "You can give this bar a rustic look with a hatchet and a blowtorch."I find that "distressing!"Aitchkay
Got a pic? If it looks like the pic in John's link the "ripples" are from the sawing followed by by not quite enough planing to remove the ripples. Those type of ripples can be difficult to duplicate....... lots of variables - was the board pit sawn or cut with a circular mill, feed rate etc etc. Probably the best bet is to find some rough cut stock with saw marks of the right type (straight or curved) and distance apart and run it through a surface planer taking very light cuts. If it doesn't look like the pic, well ......................... Happy New Year Steve
Edited 12/31/2008 11:17 am ET by jc21
You could always regrind the blade so it has less of a radius.
Or get a # 4 or #5 plane, and grind the blade on that so it has just a little radius. One of those two planes ( or similar) were probably the ones originally used on those old boards
Scrub planes are for the initial cuts in flattening a piece of lumber. It's the roughing out plane. You run them usually on the diagonal both ways. The fore plane is next which is usually a #6 and can be run with the grain or at a slight skew. This preps the surface to flat. Lastly there is the smoothing plane which is traditionally a # 4 or 604 1/2 which is run with the grain. The blade is usually not sharpened straight square, rather it is rounded ever so slightly at the edges. The final cuts from this plane is what you're seeing.
Shep said it.
He always does.
Yer close too..LOL.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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You are on the right track. I have made many,many many BDFT of table tops, and the like with a #3 and #4 and #5 all ground slightly convex.
A scrub is usually used at a 45 angle and then followed by the 3/4/5 with less crown and stright on with the grain. Then if near perfect flat is wanted, a 6 or 7 jointer with just the corners dubbed an the iron basically true flat is used to knock down the slight tracks from the last plane. Like sandpaper grits, planes get flatter as you go up. Then a scraper is final.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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I agree with others that you probably want a smoothing plane with "camber". Lee Valley sells a Camber Roller which goes with their Verital Mk.II Honing Guide. This set up worked well for me, using a 325 grig diamond stone. The Guide and extra roller cost about $85Cdn. If you are talented at sharpening, you could probably get the same camber without the Guide.
I've always used a block plane with a radius ground on it freehand. You'll probably be starting with a flat board so a block plane is long enough. Adjust the radius to match the work you're replicating
Rich
When planed right, you can't see those final cut marks except when the light reflects at certain angles off the finish. I totally agree that the overdone hand planed effect looks really bad.
It's like those pieces of furniture you see that have catalyzed factory paint on them that has been "distressed" to look old. It takes a real expert to do an antique fake.
Sphere gave a good outline of the processes.
The only thing I would add is that Stanley came out with a metal body scrub plane around 1890 but for many years before that a wood bodied fore-plane with a radius on the iron was used. It worked much like a scrub plane but the iron was wider so the radius was greater resulting in a more shallow tool mark. If the tool marks are deep that might be what you are seeing. If the tool marks are shallow than it is more likely a 3 or 4. A coffin planes leaves almost no tools marks.
Edited 12/31/2008 9:00 pm ET by mathewson
All of my exs mentioned that fore-plane stuff, but I don't know what they were talking about...I think the definition is 30 minutes of pleading...Aitchkay
Edited 1/1/2009 4:23 pm ET by AitchKay
<<I think the definition is 30 minutes of pleading...>>*sNork*
So when starting with an S4S piece of pine would you start right in with a 4 or 5? Or would you rough it up with the scrub first, then knock it back down again? I would like to be able to do it with just one plane. I think I've got a 4 or 5 laying around somewhere.Steve
Edited 1/1/2009 4:56 pm by mmoogie
We always did just a 4 with a crown grind on the blade, not a BIG swoop like a scrub, just a gentle corner dub of the iron.
To hone it you just apply a little more pressure on the corners, and very slightly roll from side to side..I can't explain it as easy as I can just do it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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That jibes with what I've read elswhere. I guess it's back to Garrett Wade for the Lie Nielson scrub...
Don't do it!The difference between a scrub plane and what you want is FAR greater than the difference between a straight-bladed #4 and what you want.I just pulled out an ECE scrub plane that a buddy of mine gave me about 30 years ago. The blade is ground to a radius of 1"!!That translates to a crown of over 1/4" in its 1 5/16" width!What you want is maybe 1/32" over the width of a #4s 2"-wide blade. That's what I've got on the plane that I use that way, and it's just about perfect.Aitchkay
Edited 1/1/2009 9:19 pm ET by AitchKay
LN scrub?! Look on E-bay. or make your own with a beater. I'll bet they're asking a pretty penny. LN is great stuff don't get me wrong.
"...make your own with a beater."Yeah, I ground the blade on my Record #778 to a scrub profile. I found that the screw feed twisted the blade out of parallel with the sole too much. But that didn't matter with a radiused, scrub blade.The lever feed on my Stanley #78 isn't as fine, but it doesn't twist the blade. So the #78 is my rough rabbeting plane, and the #778 makes a rough and tough scrub plane.
My ancient restored #78 is one of my favorite planes. I got all the fence etc to go with it and had a machinist make the little rods. Old wood smoothers make great scrub planes. I have a transitional (wood sole & metal parts) that I also use as a scrub.
Yep. You've already flattened the panel, so you don't need a #8, or even a #5. All you want to do now is make it look good.A #4 with a very subtly-crowned blade would have been the plane of choice back then, and still would be today.AitchKay
Just as a rule, I have the chipbreaker about toching the corners and maybe 3/64th of iron proud of that in the center of the width. That is all the crown needed. At MOST.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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I see you posted while I was typing --You got it, bro.AitchKay
Yeah, plus a scrub plane with that much "Hog" has to by nature of the beast have a wide throat to allow the shaving to pass , thereby making it useless for fine smoothing like a 4 can be used. That wide opening will allow the chip to "Run" ahead and tear out the grain.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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That's right -- the closer the chipbreaker is to the edge, and the tighter the mouth, the cleaner the cut.Aitchkay
Edited 1/1/2009 10:18 pm ET by AitchKay
That too. The SOLE is what I was referring to. The MOUTH controls some of the tear out by compressing the fibers before the iron engages them.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Yeah, I think we're talking pretty much about the same thing:The chipbreaker is there to help break the chip into a curl, so that the chip doesn’t have a long, stiff lever arm to pry up tearout behind it.Throat = mouth, and the sole extends right up to the edge of the mouth. The sole holds the fibers down, keeping them from rising, and it also concentrates the curling action, just like a chipbreaker. So the tighter the mouth, the better the sole/tight mouth works as a chipbreaker.A multi-pronged attack against against tearism!!!AitchKay
Just off the top of my head I'd say grinding a slight camber into the iron of a #5 or #6 Stanley is the way to go. If you've thought about it and came to that conclusion then go for it.
That's probably what a 19th century carpenter would do.