Replies

1. 
   seeyou | Aug 25, 2004 07:19pm | #1

   I don't understand your question. A gutter collects water at the eave and carries it to the downspout (or leader). A scupper is the hole thru a parapet wall that lets the water out and ususally dumps into a leader head ( or leader box). Leader boxes are also used to vent (and decorate) long downspouts.

   To stop the clogging from leaves, etc, I often install a box with a screen set at 45 degrees at a reachable height. The leaves, needles, whatever slide off the screen and and the water continues on down the pipe.

1. 
   drhamel | Aug 25, 2004 10:51pm | #2

   greencu,

   Would you happen to have a photo of the screen-box you use.  I have both fir trees and a large honey locust that tend to plug the drains.  Thanks.

1. 
   seeyou | Aug 26, 2004 12:18am | #4

   I know I have some photos, but I can't locate them right now. I have a couple to make later this week. If I can't find the existing pics, I'll take some new ones and post them.

1. 
   drhamel | Aug 26, 2004 01:07am | #7

   Thanks!

2. 
   DANL | Aug 25, 2004 11:21pm | #3

   I got the idea from what he wrote that a scupper in this case is a shallow trough--shallower than a gutter, but I'd heard of them generally associated with adobe roofs or porches and like you said, are holes to let water out. Previous owner of my house had a gutter on an addition that ran into to the valley of the main roof (main roof's eves were below the addition's eves) so it blocked the valley and got all sorts of nasty stuff backed up and rotting. Finally cut the gutter off about five feet short of the valley. Took gutters off of some other parts because they clogged so bad, even with "Gutter Helmets" as to be useless.

1. 
   redoak | Aug 26, 2004 06:42am | #9

   Danno, Greencu, etc.

   Some clarification on the scuppers. Out here in Seattle, scuppers are very shallow troughs that reside at the bottom of the roof. There is a drain hole at one end(as with a gutter) which is connected to a downspout. In my case the hole goes through the space above the soffit boards and gets connected at that point with a downspout.

   When the wire mesh "ball" in the hole gets clogged with Doug Fir needles(and it doesn't take much), the scupper quickly fills up with rain water, eventually running over the top of the flashing and down the front of the facia board. I've tried leaving the hole open(no wire mesh) but the pipe at the bottom of the downspout eventually gets plugged, too and has to be flushed out. A big pain.

   Does this help?

1. 
   seeyou | Aug 26, 2004 01:00pm | #10

   OK, we call that a box gutter 'round here. Take that wire mesh thing and throw it as far as you possibly can. Where ever it lands is where it will do you the most good. Do the downspouts go underground? Where do they normally clog - high or low?

1. 
   redoak | Aug 26, 2004 06:06pm | #12

   greencu, danno,

   Box gutters, eh? I like your advice for the wire mesh! The downspouts do go underground. The previous owner ran 31/2" plastic drain pipe out from the house. Some of them end above ground and some below ground. When I've left the wire mesh off, the pipes eventually get plugged up with needles and even pine cones. The few standard gutters that are also on the house get filled up too, but seem to drain better with the mesh drain trap.

   Yes, I've seen the rain chain on some houses. I'd still need an underground pipe to carry the water away from the foundation, so wouldn't the needles, etc., still end up going into the pipe?

   I haven't heard anyone here strongly suggest that the standard gutters are an obvious advantage over the "box" gutters. I know of one roofing company here in Seattle that absolutely refuses to keep box gutters on a house that already has them. They ARE easier to sweep out than standard gutters(you just use a broom to sweep out the debris), but otherwise, they seem to be a pain.

   One other question: There's roof flashing along the top of the facia board that borders the outside of the box gutters. I noticed it isn't caulked to the surface of the gutter, so when they fill up with rain, the water flows UNDERNEATH the flashing and pours out down the outside of the facia board. Should this be caulked or sealed up with roofing patch?

2. 
   DANL | Aug 26, 2004 08:22pm | #13

   Greencu's idea of mesh at a 45 is good--I've seen similar things that have parallel slots at 45 degrees so the junk falls out and the water falls straight through--you could cut a big enough hole (to allow pinecones and so on to fall out in your downspout at a convenient height. Put the mesh in the hole, bottom of mesh at bottom lip of hole and tilt it up and back away from the hole to the opposite "wall" of the downspout. Water runs through, junk is "sieved" out and because the mesh it angled. the junk drops away on the outside of the spout. At least that's what I assume Greencu means.

   Yeah, I think you need to adhere the flashing to the outside lip of the box gutters. Use something flexible--polyutethane caulk comes to mind--so when things move, contract and expand, it doesn't crack. I've done work on a house with "normal" gutters and the water somehow, despite drip edge, doesn't go into the gutters, but ends up running down the fascia between it and the gutter. I caulked that and it helped. Another house the idiots who re-roofed didn't use drip edge, so I just stuck some under the first course of shingles. HO said he's never seen so much water coming out of his downspout, as opposed to what it used to do, run down the fascia, through the wrong sloped planting bed and into his basement through the walls.

3. 
   Sphere | Aug 26, 2004 08:25pm | #14

   gutter caulk is butyl rubber, real gooey and strecthy...smells too 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

4. 
   DANL | Aug 27, 2004 12:46am | #15

   I had the pleasure of removing butyl caulk (at least I think it was that--too old too be a "modern" caulk from a door frame in an aluminum sided garage--it is strong. What did you mean about "outside the box--see your thread"? The thread about boom boxes or box gutters? I'm so confused!

5. 
   Sphere | Aug 27, 2004 12:51am | #16

   hell, I forget what I had for lunch, now ya ask me to remember something from like a day ago?  I think it was the boom box/ thread..I dunno.. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

2. 
   DANL | Aug 26, 2004 02:38pm | #11

   Yeah, that helps. How about replacing the downspout with a "rainchain"? Used in Japan. Either a chain or cable directs the water down--water just runs along it--like pouring paint along a stirring stick. Can't clog and to me looks better than a downspout. Can be made to be decorative--have seen them in magazines with a series of copper flower-like cups, etc..

3. 
   JeffBuck | Aug 27, 2004 04:38am | #17

   box gutter.

   and they can be relined with metal ...

   or for a semi-permanent fix ... there's a product much like weather guard that had a reflective finish to it ... and it just adheres to the told worn metal in the box gutters ...

   wraps over the side ... and fits up and under the first row or two of shingles.

   had it done to my parents roof ... which can't be seen from the street ... the bottom at least ... slate roof ... and since Dad wasn't putting any more money into a declining neighborhood than need be ... had the roofers strip off 3 rows of slate ...

   apply the membrane .. over the gutters and up the slope ... then 3 tab shingle ober that and under the good slate.

   Has lasted ... about 5 years now.

   I was just up there 2 weeks ago walking around the roof ... doing some other repairs ... and the lining was as good as when they installed it.

   Best fix if new copper soldered in ...

   JeffBuck Construction, llc   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

2. 
   JeffBuck | Aug 26, 2004 12:32am | #5

   I was gonna sk the same question ...

   are we talking about regular old K style gutter vs old fashion box gutters?

   I know of scuppers as described above .... and larger areas carved out of the roof where the window is at or just below the angle of the roof line ... and that boxed area is lined with metal ....

   Jeff

   Buck Construction, llc   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

1. 
   JeffBuck | Aug 26, 2004 12:39am | #6

   didn't think I still had this pic ...

   JeffBuck Construction, llc   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

1. 
   seeyou | Aug 26, 2004 02:52am | #8

   That's cool, but it's not we call a scupper in my neck 'o' the woods. Looks like some kind of mutant box gutter to me. Educate me.