My buddy is calling SE Cable, rag wire. Is this term common? Anybody know how it got this distinction?
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I know the old type romex wire had a cloth cover on it, maybe
Rag wire is any kind of wire insulated with rubber protected by woven cloth. The more formal name for it is loomed wire. It was in use from the late 1800's to just after WWII, when thermoplastic insulation became possible. It exists both as individual conductors and combined into loomex, the ancestor of romex.
The rubber decomposes, the cloth rots, both happen faster where the wire get hot. Fortunately, the worst of it is usually in the boxes, so inspecting it there will tell you whether replacing it should be a high priority.
-- J.S.
Re: "Rag wire is any kind of wire insulated with rubber protected by woven cloth."Learn something new every day. I had never heard the term "rag wire" used. Makes sense given the cotton and fiber loom used. Messed with a lot of the stuff without the benefit of having an easy blanket term for it. Mostly we just cuss at it and, when the HOs allow, rip it out and rewire.A ceiling box without an attic and with a half dozen cables, or equivalent in K&T, running to it, almost without exception short wired, is a pain to work with. Got to do the work but have nothing to work with and everything I touch disintegrates. As Jack Nicholson said: 'I'd rather stick needles in my eyes'.
Here in LA, rag wire is generally found in black pipe. I've seen K&T in houses from 1911 and earlier, but from WWI onward it's black pipe. There's very little that pre-dates the 1920's building boom.
Pulling new wire into the pipe is usually easy. But if the circuit has been overloaded and overheated a lot, the rubber melts and glues everything in place. Sometimes on short runs I've been able to push and pull on both ends and break them loose, but not often. Usually the whole thing has to be torn out and replaced. Unless somebody has a better solution, like maybe a half inch copper-eating roto rooter? ;-)
It's the ends in boxes, particularly ceiling lights, that tend to get cooked and beaten the worst. If they're short and replacement isn't an option, I've soldered on pigtails and then covered the splice with shrink wrap that extends into the pipe. Or just shrink wrap if there's enough wire.
-- J.S.
The rubber softening from heating during overloading is a likely cause. Another may be that old timer sometimes used a soap slurry to lubricate the wires being pulled in, Ivory flakes and a bit of water in a bucket, was popular and cheap. Worked pretty well for getting the wires into the conduit. Getting them out later was not on their minds.Problem is the slurry can cause rust inside the conduit, especially in black iron, and the soap solidifies as the water evaporates. It makes a pretty decent glue. In an industrial setting we had some luck using a hose to shoot water into the conduit if allowed to run it can rinse out some of the soap. If not the water softens the soap and generally lubricates the removal process. It can be messy. Rusty, soapy water and wet, goop covered wires coming out. You have probably tries it but working one conductor at a time, back and forth from both ends, seems to help sometimes. If accessible cutting the middle of run can save the day. Cutting in the middle of a length of conduit allows the ends to be unscrewed so you have enough slack wire to hand a journeyman, or two, off. After the old stuff is out it is simple enough to install a box or threadless coupling.In one case we ran a fish tape, a sturdy steel one, into the conduit with the wires that wouldn't come out. Once through we made a slim head using one of the wires looping back into the conduit. Then pull back the fish tape. I had my doubts, forcing a loop to travel the length of the conduit is counterintuitive, but it worked. Once we did the same thing and the wire stuck so we pushed in another fish tape and did it with another wire and they both came out. It can cause a snarl that refuses to move. Its a question of how wound around each other the wires are within the conduit. If it jams tight your not worse off, except for the time lost, than you were to start.
Thanks! I'll have to try that fish tape and loop back idea next time.
-- J.S.
I think that there are some transistion products also.Have plastic insulation on the wire, but the sheathing is woven and saturated with "plastic". Era 50's.