I am about to purchase a seasonal camp on lake champlain that has 2 small cottages running on lake water (not for drinking/cooking).
The setting is quite nice and could be a great place in retirement..still way off.
One cottage has a fairly new septic system which I had inspected and pumped…and found out it is 300 to 500 gallon plastic tank. System appears in good working order.
The other cottage has the original system…unknown…and has been permited for a new system. Because of site restrictions, lake on one side…wetlands behind…neighbors well nearby…the system has to be an Eljen 1000 gal tank with 72 LF for leach field…assuming seasonal use of 2 bedroom cottage.
I would like to eventually make this a year round place with a little more room. Should I try and put in a bigger septic system now?
Water source is another concern. Neighbors are mixed with well and lake water with filtration system…apparently wells could be sulphur water.
Any thoughts/guidance would be appreciated.
Cliff
Replies
I've been living in an area that has gradually become less rural and more urban. More and more people retirering to homes that used to be summer cottages. We are now seeing problems with underbuilt/old septic fields and also very small electrical services. If you foresee needing anything more than what you curently have, it will be cheaper to overbuild now than to rebuild later.
It will be cheaper and easier to install a larger system now rather than add on later. Going from two to three bedrooms and/or from seasonal to year-around use could require a whole different design.
Not necessarily so.With a thousand gallon tank he has capacity there for year round for 3-4 bedrooms, and adding more leach capacity with added Eljin is not that much more.Still, I'd have it redesigned or check with the system designer and get it done right up front. No telling what regs might prevent in the future.
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That's my thought as well. If you have any desire to upgrade in the future do it now. Regulations will only get stricter. If I had waited to build my lake home til now instead of starting 4 years ago I would be facing the possibility of not building at all, or at least facing a major fight to get it done. Glad I did it when I did.
You are correct about what I said--it ain't necessarily so. I have a tendency to be brief at the expense of thoroughness.
However, in some jurisdictions, a system may be designed without much treatment, for seasonal use only, based on greater depth to soil saturation during the summer and fall. Year around use might require a much more involved treatment system.
And, with a limited area, going from a two-bedroom system to a three bedroom system might require the use of a pressure system (e.g., drip irrigation) to get enough disposal system.
I think Mike Smith summed it up well.
ckozer
Here's a product which can revive or increase the capacity of old systems:
http://www.cleanwatercanada.com/septicsystemrecovery.html
Whether your local authorities would accept it is quite another matter, but these things do work, I hear.
Ron
if you can get it upgraded now with the blessing of the AHJ, do it - - who knows what the future holds?
Good advice from the other posters. If you have the opportunity, do it now! I've been jumping through all sorts of hoops, trying to to upgrade a system on the coast of Maine. Don't know how close you are to your neighbors, but one new well on a neighboring property could change all your possibilities of an upgrade.
Unless you are caught up in a cesspool of idiots, the State allows for a variance with pre-existing situations like yours. I've done it 2-3 times.
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Piffin and All,
Thanks for the responses. I have been doing homework by phone. The permit I have is good until March next year. I will be in NY next week and check with folks live. That'll be much easier.
I reviewed the plan in the permit with a clinton county envirnomental helath duty officer to see if I could upgrade. He said the engineer involved in the design is really good and did a heck of a job getting that system in the site...so I may be maxed anyway. Guidance essentillay was put it in as permitted...and check with town codes officer when ready to upgrade structure.
Well water will be a challenge and requires steel casing down 100 ft...I really don't know what that means from a cost standpoint. I'll have to do some homework on that.
I was looking last night at some old threads on septic pumping intervals. That was areal crackup!
"Well water will be a challenge and requires steel casing down 100 ft...I really don't know what that means from a cost standpoint. I'll have to do some homework on that."drillers here used to charge $12/ft for drilling plus $10/ft for casing, but steel has gone up considerably in price since thenCasing does not always line the entire hole. For instance, mine hit rock ledge at about 20' so I have 40' of casing in a 177' hole.My BIL has a 320 ft deep well. The driller thought he hit rock at 100' so he used 120' of casing. It turned out that the strata was some compressed sand or weak limestone, so BIL was getting grit and discoloration for months. Driller came back and relined all the way down and solved the problem.in your case, the requirement is probably to provide that most of the water in your well is from aquifer that has been filtered by a minimum of 100' depth of soil and rock to filter it for you, a good thing. at say $15/ft for steel, that would cost you $1500. That may not be additional though, depending on what would otherwise be normal in that general area.I was thinking the wastewater designer/soils engineer had been a top notch guy, because of the Eljin recommendation. That is a system that uses less space and is efficient on tight lots and difficult soils.
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I live on a lake side lot. No septic fields allowed. we have a 1500 gal holding tank and get it pumped 5-6 weeks 2 adults and 2 teenagers. We have low comsumption everything.
The saying here is use all the water you want just don't let it go down the drain! So the kids have grown up knowing how to use water wisely.But to the well thing, Steel casing? WTF no one around here(south Saskachewan Canada uses steel casing, all PVC cased just about all the way to the bottom with a sand screen on the last legs. My well is 150 feet deep. Touch wood no grit or stuff in the water. But lots of iron in the water. I should get the rag out and shock it soon.Some blue suit looser wants to tax water wells as they think we are getting water for nothing!! and should be paying market value for our water. This fella had a radio host shoot some holes in his argument, but blinded by the free trade act and such horse manure, this puppet thought he had a valid reason to pass on this business model. I think some one may invite him out hunting and screw some deer antlers to his head.
Somebody wants to tax water wells? Would that be a politician? Seems prima facie ridiculous.
Like I said "A Blue Suit" more dangerous than a yellow stripe, probably gets more cash to!!Some of these pencil pushing wanckers just try to tax you to death. I think this fellow never milked a cow or spent a day hauling bales. or knows what a shovel is.These Blue Suits are armed and dangerous people. Armed with the law and dangerously stupid. As they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Hope he has to pay a $5 water surcharge for his designer coffee.So what would be the best screw for attaching horns to a slightly numbed brain? SS, double dipped galv. or perhaps a power fastener.
Not to derail the thread. Over build now relax later, can you use a composting toilet and reduce your # of gallons.Does a low flow toilet help or hinder septic systems? ie solids vs waste content vs decomposition ?
Yep, I think it will eventually work out.
if you want to expand in the future , i'd install the system now... and make sure the jurisdictional authority signs off that the system is designed for the additional bedrooms and you have the right too build the additional bedrooms
the systems get better all the time ( better in the sense of "what's possible " )
but they also get more expensive, they require maintenance contracts.. AND the regulations and review process gets harders and more drawn out
do it now.. you'll thank yourself later... wether you build or just for resale value
Cheaper to enlarge the system now if you can do it.
Re water, pull river water for a while and learn as much as possible about the local aquifer.
I have a house just off Lake Ontario on the St Lawrence River (a ways east of you) and ran well water for 2 years with iron filters out the ying yang and wazoo. They only helped the water. It still stunk.
Last summer I put in a jet pump and pulling river water.
It is AWESOME compared.
we use spring water from a local spring for drinking and coffee, and use tap river water for everything else. (Wife cooks with spring water but I will use river water if boiling it, dont tell her)