I’m designing a second story addition and reconfiguring the first floor on a single family home. The homeowner wants to remain in the house durring the construction. We want to build the second story and when that is done they could move up there while we do the first floor work. We plan to use new 24′ trusses to span the entire width of the house because we will be taking out the bearing walls in the next phase. Can we layl a 2×6 along either side and nail to the existing joists and then span our trusses over them. Then later at the second phase; tear out the ceiling and cut the old joist at the wall edge, removing all but the section that is holding up our new floor. This would give us the 9′ ceilings we want, but is it sound construction? How have others out there handled similar problems?
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Replies
That is pretty innovative thinking and it might just work. I would install solid blocking between the existing joists before cutting them and do everything I could to get the H.O. out of the residence for the duration of construction though.
They cannot possibly be realistically prepared for what you are about to be doing over the top of their heads for the next several months. Nobody likes sheetrock chunks and sawdust in their cornflakes first thing every morning. :-)>
Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
I agree getting them out would be the simplest solution. Then we could easily tear out the old and put up the new. But when are things ever simple.
Who is going to do the work? You should be asking these questions of this person. There are contractors who specialize in this type of project and, having done one of these myself, I would recommend that you get such a specialist if there is one in your area. They will doubtless have many suggestions. Even if you can't find an outfit that is very experienced in this type of project, it still makes sense to have the actual contractor involved in the planning stage of the project.
If I understand you right, I don't see how the wall hindging would be a problem if there are not any forces pushing out. The joist wont let the wall go anywhere. I would do the blocking between the joists that was previously suggested. Then lay the 2"x6" (or whatever) that would essentially be a sill, and then put the joist on top of that. I don't see where that would be any differant then a foundation wall. I would jsut make sure that the old construction is properly nailed. Ofcoarse this is all subjective without seeing to job, but I do think that your idea is sound.
However, in a perfect world I would kick the tenants out, and completely take the old out. Build a 12" knee wall, and put the TJ in.
I would say you cut back on the existing ceiling beams 1-5/8" all the way around and then nail a 2x6 box around the whole perimeter, then set your TJI's on top of the box and then later cut out the existing ceiling.
I had this conversation about 6 months ago with an architect because we were going to do that on my friends house because he had 8' ceilings and we were going to use 2x12's so that he could have 9' ceilings and I was concerned about having a Hinged Effect at that point. You might want to double up on the 2x6 box later and cut out for the necessary plumbing and HVAC or get some kind of Simpson Straps.
You said that you were designing this, are you an Architect. because an Architect or Engineer should look at this idea. I don't think it's as bad using 2x6's as opposed to using 2x12.
I don't think it's a good idea running them along side because that would mean that your cutting the 2x6's 3-1/2" for a 2x4 wall or 5-1/2" for a 2x6 wall. Running the 2x6 perpendicular to the TJI's is better.
Joe Carola
Joe-
Did you get my email? Just checkin'- no pressure.....lol.
You can handle the construction but I'd hazard an educated guess that doing what it takes to keep systems functioning and safe to let them live there while you work will add 30% or so to the cost. Tell them it'll be cheaper to move out for a few months and let you get something done.
If there are kids living in it, I would refuse to do the work while they are living in it.
With them out, you will get along better with each other when finished by having them vacate first.
Excellence is its own reward!
Do the current single story footings have enough size to support a second story on the soils found in your area!
Just another consideration....sure wouldn't want shifting and cracking in a newly reconstructed house!
........................Iron Helix
I agree with Framer" that you're creating a hinge at this point. Don't know how exactly you could cure the problem though.
When you re-do the first floor, wil you be tearing into the exterior walls? If so, maybe you could cut through the old top plates and add in some full height studs every few feet to keep it rigid.
Nothing is so commonplace as to wish to be remarkable. [Oliver Wendell Homes]
It is a brick 1 1/2 story house that will support the second story well. But that also means I can't use the full legnth stud idea.
It is a brick 1 1/2 story house that will support the second story well.
Even the more reason to make sure the of the actual size of the original footings. The presence of brick does not mean the ability to add more on to the top of the house....but it means there is already more load on the footing by the added weight of the buildings brick facade.
The brick veneer is not necessarily a structural bonus when considering existing footing size and the compressive strength/capacity of the soil the footings set upon.
The achilles tendon is the load capacity of the soils and the width of the footing to distribute the load to the soil. A few 1/4" holes in in the basement floor or a small hand dug test pit along an exterior wall should allow you to know the width and depth of the footing.
Checking it out beats adding the weight of the second story and then discovering new and different cracks in walls and floors. .....................Iron Helix
It is a brick 1 1/2 story house that will support the second story well.
How is the brick supporting the second story? The brick is on the outside of your 2x4 or 2x6 wall which your ceiling joists and rafters are sitting on.
But that also means I can't use the full legnth stud idea
Why not?
Your second floor is not sitting on brick, it's sitting above the first floor wall and then you cantilever the TJI's past the wall over the brick if you don't plan on continuing the brick all the way up the second story addition.
Joe Carola
Edited 12/12/2003 7:02:37 AM ET by Framer
It is not a brick facade. It is a solid 2 layer brick house. The brick is supporting the joists. This does not make for a well insulated house but it is solid.
Sorry about misconstruing the brick veneer for a probable two wythe bonded wall construction.
But this just increases the loading on the footings...still a must to know the size to be safe from settlement by overload.
......................Iron Helix