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Discussion Forum

Secret passages, hidden doors.

JerryC7410 | Posted in General Discussion on March 13, 2007 07:07am

I just posted this in another section, but then I thought maybe it belongs here. I don’t know, I’m new here.

I was wondering if anyone knows some good resources for building hidden doors and secret passages in a house. It seems like this ancient practice has become a lost art.

I know there are some brilliant carpenters out there who could come up with something incredible.

What do you think about having a hidden room in your house? How large of a room could you hide in the floorplan? How well could you hide it?

If anybody knows of a solid book dealing with this, I’d like to know of it. Thanks.

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  1. User avater
    bobl | Mar 13, 2007 07:14pm | #1

    on one of the cable channels, can't remember if it was discovery, tlc or what. they had an hour long show on the topic. a search of their sites might help. spent a lot of time on a fellow who makes hardware (actuators etc) for the hidden doors etc.

     

    bobl          Volo, non valeo

    Baloney detecter    WFR

    "But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG

  2. AllTrade | Mar 13, 2007 07:26pm | #2

    and what is it you plan on hiding? Lets watch this guy folks!lol

    1. JerryC7410 | Mar 13, 2007 07:42pm | #3

      I don't plan on hiding anything; I just think building something like that would be an interesting challenge, would make a house a little more unique, and I know kids would really get a kick out of it. I know I would have when I was young.I was just thinking about this.. okay, how difficult do you think it would be to build a small hidden door into some frame-and-panel wainscoting? Have one of the panels separate and on hinges. Could even have a keyless deadbolt concealed in it so that it only opens when you put in the right code.Thoughts?

      1. User avater
        BossHog | Mar 13, 2007 08:18pm | #4

        This has been discused several times. Here are a few old threads I came up with:http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=72946.1http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=51655.1http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=16131.1http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=11448.1http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=14949.1
        If money could talk, it would say goodbye.

      2. Piffin | Mar 13, 2007 09:03pm | #6

        Are you a builder, designer or HO?The concept of building in "safe rooms" is growing. you could probably google that terminology and find a lot of articles. Protection from thievs as well as from tornadoes is top of the list for reasons.How easy to hide one depneds a LOT on the style, size and layout of the house. 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        1. DougU | Mar 14, 2007 05:35am | #17

          Piffin

          I'm sure your mention of a "safe room" was not meant in the same vain as a hidden room.

          While in Texas I came across a few real "safe rooms"  - its not the same animal as a hidden room and should never be thought of as such.

          If you ever have the chance to see a true safe room you'll be impressed with the engineering. On one house it was quit obvious where the track in the floor was, no attempt to hide it, although it was not in the "public" area of the house it was quit clear what it was and what all in incompassed.

          Doug

          1. Piffin | Mar 14, 2007 11:40am | #19

            I understand from our POV that the two might sometimes be different in that they may have different features, but I did not differentiate between them in my mind. This was based on an artcle I read - I think in Smart Money - a couple of years ago, that included them both in the same vein. The point of the article was that they were becoming more common and were being synthesized one with the other.I have only done three myself and they would all be classified as hidden rooms when you differentiate. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          2. DougU | Mar 14, 2007 01:54pm | #20

            I believe down in TX at maybe Texas A&M or Tech that they do some development on such things as walls that are bullet prof, tornado prof,......Kinda cool seeing what goes into one of these things.

            But there not for the cheap at heart, pretty pricy I would imagine.

            Hidden rooms are about as common as Viking/Wolf appliances anymore, at least it seams that way.

            Doug

          3. User avater
            CapnMac | Mar 14, 2007 07:02pm | #24

            down in TX at maybe Texas A&M or Tech

            The Tornado Lab at Tech has (or did have) a pretty estensive building construction test facility.  They used that test facility to develop standards for tornado-resistant construction (this is occasionally listed under "tornado proof," but the F5 in Jarrel made everybody revise terminology).

            Our "Construction Science" department, here, over my left shoulder, has been through a couple of reorganizations in the last couple of decades.  It's current focus is towards a B.S. aimed at Construction Management.  But, there are some signs of the faculty, at least, wanting to "break out" into more research again.

            All of which cropped up pretty hard when the homeland security training facility went in, with its attendant research facility.  Lots of hmm-ing & hw-ing when the Swivel Engineers were asked about bullet & vehicle & similar resistance; they said, "Uh, we do dams, interstates, that sort of thing; try Building Construction."  After finding some one who knew that BC is now CNSI (Construction Science), more "uh, er, can we get back to you" . . .

            Now, Armortex (aka Safeguard Security Services, Ltd.) is down in Schertz (just to one side of Converse, on the SM side of SA).  They have some extensive lines of bullet-resistant, fire resistant, vandalism-resistant, etc. products.  You might have run into there products, the brochures, or the like not so terribly long ago.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

          4. DougU | Mar 15, 2007 02:20am | #26

            Capn

            I think that I talked to a prof with the CS dept at one of the houses that I worked in, pretty high profile homeowner, I'm sure you know who it is. He was overseeing some product that they had developed, didnt get to talk a whole lot but I believe his research was more towards tornado effects but said that the same products were being used for both, all this if my memory is serving me well!

            Doug

          5. User avater
            CapnMac | Mar 15, 2007 06:00pm | #28

            but said that the same products were being used for both

            Well, if your panel will resist .308 rounds, it will resist, generally, 2x4s at 2-300 mph--some logic there.

            I want to remember that Tech's Severe Weather Center had a link to making a storm-resistant "safer room."  Mostly sensible stuff, like multiple layers to help resist flying debris and beefy structure to resist the house falling on the safe room.

            The specs for installing the bullet-resistant panels get much pickier quicker, though (they have them on the Armortex site, but they are not friendly to dial up).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

          6. DougU | Mar 16, 2007 04:23am | #30

            The panels that I saw were some sort of plywood with what appeared to be fiberglass (just my visual observation) sandwiched into it, or vice-versa, but as you mentioned, multi-layered.

            I know the stuff looked mighty heavy cause there seamed to be a lot of guys trying to manuver it into place. I dont go jumping in and volunteer for stuff like that like I used to so I cant say for sure how heavy but my educated guess is that it was "pretty" heavy!

            I did one hidden closet for a guy in Austin that was lined with lead! Nothing but ammo was being stored in that one. I think his thoughts were that you wouldnt be able to "see" into the closet with any sorta "special" cameras! He thought we were one step away from the black helos comming in the middle of the night. He always had a wierd channel on the radio, some local channel(I think 91.1, sorta ironic) - the host was a freaking conspiracy nut. Kinda funny as long as you didnt believe everything that you heard!  <G>

            Doug

          7. user-53014 | Mar 16, 2007 05:49am | #31

            When I built my entertainment center in my TV room a few years ago I incorporated a secret door. It looks like the double cabinet doors that match the other side. It goes into a small room under the stairs that I stole from the closet in the adjoining room. It used to be my home office but I would get too claustrophobic after sitting in there for awhile. Inside that area are more than a few hidden areas only known to me. I have plans to make it a small 1/2 bath, with a trapdoor going to the basement with a spring-loaded ladder that will come up (like the bed in Hogans Heroes). A simple thing to make is a wall cabinet between the studs and have a wall painting over it. A good set of Blum or similar bb slides attached to the painting and wall above the opening, and voila, secret area. I think all built-in furniture should have some secret areas. All that's needed is an imagination and with today's bldg. materials (hinges and such) you can do anything.I would show you pictures but Section 26 paragraph 5 of the MI-5 manual states that is a "need to know basis" (at least that's what was said in James Bonds Living Daylights, which by the way has the neatest secret passages of any Bond movie. Heck you can even put in the oscillating lawn rake they had as an antenna for satellite TV reception.

          8. Learner | Mar 16, 2007 08:43pm | #38

            The movie Sleiven has a pretty cool use of a false wall for body guards - wall doesn't even open they bust through the drywall with a running start.

          9. user-53014 | Mar 16, 2007 11:38pm | #39

            Thanks. That's another reason why I have to watch that one. I hear its a great film.AS

          10. TWG | Mar 16, 2007 01:13pm | #32

            I was in a house a few weeks ago where the previous owner had secret quick action panels around the house that concealed 9mm automatic weapons (illegal as far as I'm aware).  The insides were made to hold the gun at perfect angle for grabbing in an emergency.  The new owner said the old was "high strung."

            Since I live in SE PA I was happy to hear the old owner had moved to FLA.

            TWG.

            Edited 3/16/2007 6:20 am ET by TWG

          11. DougU | Mar 16, 2007 05:26pm | #35

            I've got a friend that has the hidden shot gun loaded and ready for action...........positioned right behind the faux wall.

            The sheetrock over the hidden compartment is perforated so a slight hit will break away to revel the gun. I think this is maybe more common then we realize cause I've heard about it more then once.

            Doug

          12. User avater
            CapnMac | Mar 16, 2007 06:23pm | #36

            panels that I saw were some sort of plywood with what appeared to be fiberglass

            Hmm, I may have to go browsre their on-line stuff, as I want to remember they have a 13/16" composite panel with one luan face (or, my memory is bad, and it's the 1-5/32" panel with 1/4"/5mm ply faced on it).  For some applications, you have to have factory-applied ply, or you can't fasten a wall finish over it.

            Nuts are just that.  Never minded them as customers as long as their checks cleared (the ones who did not pay in money orders or the like <g>).

            Ah, the stories I could tell, if no one were listening, of places that were never built that way, I swear; I gots witnesses that I wasn't even in that County . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

          13. DougU | Mar 14, 2007 02:02pm | #21

            Here is an example of a hidden door that's more novelty, its better then a doorway to the mechanics!  I guess you could hide there but sitting on the insulation probably wouldn't be all that fun!

            Doug

          14. Piffin | Mar 14, 2007 02:30pm | #22

            ThanksBTW, I tried to grab that ladder with my mouse and move it out of the way so I could see some detaails better, but it wouldn't go. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          15. DougU | Mar 15, 2007 03:36am | #27

            Piffin

            I dont know if you moved the ladder that you  could see anything at all. I'll see if I can get a better pic tomarrow.

            Basically its a steel shaft sitting in a thrust bearing. Steel shaft goes from floor to ceiling.

            Doug

      3. Lefty | Mar 13, 2007 09:49pm | #8

        The show was Secret Spaces on HGTV. It's on their website if you want to look. The guy who made all the neat tricks that they profiles has a site: http://www.hiddenpassageway.com  .

        I watched the show and was amazed at the imagination of some of that stuff. Hope this helps a little. Good luck.

         

        Still lurking after all these years.

        Edited 3/13/2007 2:49 pm ET by Lefty

        1. JerryC7410 | Mar 13, 2007 10:05pm | #9

          Thanks to all. I'll check out that show on HGTV, and that guy's website. And I'll look at the other discussions and articles people have mentioned.Thank you. :)

          1. gordsco | Mar 14, 2007 04:20am | #14

            One housing company I trimmed for, sold safe rooms as part of the housing package. Most of the rooms were located mid house and hidden between other rooms or behind bookcases. Some of the more interesting hiding spots were false walls in closets, a hidden staircase leading to a room in the basement or attic, and hinged headboards in the children's bedrooms. The kids could scoot through a raised panel on the headboard into a cavity behind the wall.May neighbors respect You, and troubles neglect You.

            Gord

                                    

             

             

  3. jimcco | Mar 13, 2007 08:24pm | #5

    Unless I'm dreaming Fine Homebuilding in the just last several months had a good article on bookcase hidden passage doors.

    1. Piffin | Mar 13, 2007 09:09pm | #7

      You are not dreaming and I did a thread under the title pivot hinges or something like that - no - pin hinges...? 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  4. maverick | Mar 14, 2007 01:05am | #10

    thats funny, I have a small hidden room in my house. if I brought you to my house and gave you all day to find it you would not.

    one day my wife was looking for me and I slipped in there for a moment and watched her as she walked past calling for me. very cool. (she doesnt know about it)

    1. Piffin | Mar 14, 2007 01:13am | #11

      How did you ever find it? 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      1. maverick | Mar 14, 2007 03:12am | #12

        simple, I built it

        1. Piffin | Mar 14, 2007 11:34am | #18

          so - she wasn't part of your life at that time? 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          1. maverick | Mar 14, 2007 03:30pm | #23

            she's not very observant. sometimes its gotta work in my favor

  5. User avater
    rjw | Mar 14, 2007 03:23am | #13

    >>I just posted this in another section, but then I thought maybe it belongs here.

    >>It seems like this ancient practice has become a lost art.

    Secret passages and doors has been thoroughly discussed in the Breaktime Paradox section: the thread started with the question "How can you discuss secret passages on a public forum?"


    With my mouth I will give great thanks to the Lord; I will praise Him in the midst of the throng. For He stands at the right hand of the needy, to save them from those who would condemn them to death.

    - Psalms 109:30-31

  6. collarandhames | Mar 14, 2007 04:40am | #15

    Jerry,

    I'm working on my 1945 victory story and a half, and gained heated storage space behind the kneewalls.  I'm going to build bookshelves that act as doors.  Doing the full size layout to make sure that they will open is half the fun!   The space is currently used by my six year old as his "Spy Lab!"  And I haven't even introduced him to 007 yet!  His number is 0024-- came up with that one himself,,, somehow!   Good luck! neat thread!

    d

     

    Its a horse thing!
  7. DougU | Mar 14, 2007 05:26am | #16

    Jerry

    I've built hidden doors, hidden rooms, hidden pasageways into maybe 10-12 houses in the last 5 years. Some you  couldnt find to save your life, others were more a novelty.

    I did some hidden bookcases in one house that hid the two little girls play room, they thought it was cool.

    I've did hidden closest that hold enough ammo to fight a small war.

    I dont think its as much a dying trend as you may think. Some people are just not going to advertise that they have a hidden room!

    Doug

  8. Brian | Mar 14, 2007 07:49pm | #25

    The last house I built I put a "scooby doo" bookcase in for attic access, and a secret passageway between the kids room through their closets.

    I remember a story when Baghdad was liberated about a guy who finally came out from hiding from Saddam - he had been in a hidden room in his house for over 20 years.

     

    Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
  9. Learner | Mar 15, 2007 06:43pm | #29

    This one was advertised in jlc. Wine Holder door.

    winecellarinnovations.com

  10. tom21769 | Mar 16, 2007 02:37pm | #33

    There is a company called "The Hidden Door Company" that specializes in building custom hidden doors concealed in a bookcase wall.

    One issue to watch for is that a door like this can be very heavy (especially if loaded with books).  This poses a potential hazard, especially for little kids whose hands can be caught between the closing door and the jamb. 

    1. User avater
      CapnMac | Mar 16, 2007 06:32pm | #37

      issue to watch for is that a door like this can be very heavy (especially if loaded with books). 

      The depth needed for "real" books, also complicates the swing geometry no end, too.

      So, faced with weight, and dimension problems, some designers try to change the rules, like using a different shelf depth, or "prop" books.  Problem is, that is such a give-away, the secret is busted.

      So, that's why I always recommend against bookcase "doors" to clients.  The geometry is bad, the weight is bad, and it can smuch gr'ups or kids in a heartbeat.  Just because it loks easy on tv or in the movies is because it's in tv or the movies, where it's all "fake" . . .

      Now, if a person "snuck" some fixed shelves in a line of bookcases and/or curio shelves.  And, there was a coffered ceiling over that.  And, there happened to be, oh, maybe a 27x27 coffer directly over those fixed shelves . . .   Well, none of that might suggest that there's a ladder to a hidden room/space right overhead at all, would it?Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

      1. user-53014 | Mar 16, 2007 11:55pm | #40

        Here's the fake books.http://www.comforthouse.com/fauxbook.htmlBig bucks though, I'm sure you can them cheaper, or just order a whole bunch of FHB magazine holders (which is more believable?)Speaking of that did you see the website mentioned earlier http://www.hiddenpassageway.com and the prices he gets???Wowweee, $1900 for mounting 4 euro cabinet hinges on the back of a painting?? I'm in the wrong business.AS

        1. User avater
          CapnMac | Mar 17, 2007 12:19am | #41

          I'm in the wrong business

          You and me, both.

          And, I used to 'do' some of it, too.  "Used up" the potential customer base, and had nothing to "portfolio" to potential new clients, either . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

  11. danielifoster | Mar 16, 2007 04:54pm | #34

    I haven't done a secret room, but I've done some secret panels in libraries, kitchens and so forth. I find the most useful hardware to be the rev-a-lock magnetic latch. This is a child-proofing latch that you unlock by putting a strong magnet on the outside of the door at the latch location. The thing I've done the most is to use these to attach and release a panel with a bolection moulding around it. The bolection moulding hides the true nature of the panel.

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