Back in ’95 I created this Job Application form in FileMaker Pro (so it’s a searchable database and not just a form) and for the past few months I been working on making revisions and improvements to it. The form I’m posting is a PDF (requires Adobe Acrobat Reader) of that original and doesn’t include any of the changes and or additions I’ve made so far.
I’m looking for some honest feedback on the forms design and the kind of information it’s designed to collect. I’m looking for some fresh ideas, recommendations, additions and deletions. As I mentioned elsewhere I’m getting geared up for growing my company and this form is a small ( very small) part of the plan but it’s essentially the first contact I make with a prospective new associate (along with a cover letter) so I think it’s important.
I was also thinking it was something you all out there might also be interested in using too so let me know what you think about it.
Then later I’ll get in to the interview process and the questions I use for you comments on them too
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Profit is like oxygen, food, water, and blood for the body; they are not the point of life, but without them there is no life. —Jim Collins & Jerry Poras—Built to Last
Replies
nice form for a larger company..
i noticed a couple things:
military experience?
transportation?
marital status?
dependents?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks Mike by "nice form for a larger company"
were you referring to larger in terms of the scope of work the company
would handle or larger in number of employess? Or both?
I have already added a area to the revised form for information about military
experience and I have also have a section in the new form where an applicant
can describe the vehile they have and if they will alow it to be used aas part
of the job.However marital status and dependents would fall under the realm
of questions that are illegal to ask. You can't discriminate against a person
based on their marital status so federal law prohibits you from asking questions
that would lead you to gain any information like that.
Thanks again.
Profit is like oxygen,
food, water, and blood for the body; they are
not the point of life, but without
them there is no life. —Jim Collins
& Jerry Poras—Built to Last
jerry... it may be illegal but it is also not defined...
another form (w-4) will ask for dependents.. and company will also have a human relations department that will need to know what family members will need insurance coverage...
so... the form itself does not discriminate.. but then again i am not current on federal labor law.. only that my lawyer will be glad to argue with your lawyer ... for a fee of course
as to larger .. i meant in terms of number of employees... i like to play games when i interview... word games...essay questions...things that tend to put people at ease in a potentially stressful situation
i like to collect self administered tests that reveal personality traits..do you have any of those ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike a W-4 is filled out by new employees so anyone filing it out has crossed
over the line so the question of marital status, dependents, and age are no
longer subject to possible discrimination. I keep all that kind of information
in another different database called Employees.
Regarding: i like to collect self administered tests
that reveal personality traits..do you have any of those ?--I have a
bunch of guides I use to formulate my questions that I'm looking at while I'm
interviewing. I don't want to just outright read a question off of a sheet.
But I use them as guides and try to inprovise my questions and phrase them spontaneously.One
of those guide questions I have is:
So a few years ago I asked this one applicant "could you tell me about
a time when a client asked you to make what you thought was an unreasonalbe
request for a change and tell me how you handled it?"
He got all worked up then told me "I told her to go F herself and if she
didn't like what the F we were doing to talk to my dad." This was guy in
his mid thirties who had worked for his dad as a kitchen installer and his father
was retiring. All I could think was hey,... wrong answer but his personality
traits were certainly revealed on that question.
I've been reading about some of those tests online but I haven't seen anything
other than a few samples questions and problems they use. They want big bucks
for those kinds of tests but I guess in certain occupations that important and
worth it.
I just try to ask real work questions based on things that have happened to
me in the past both good and bad and see how they answer or solve the problem.
Profit is like oxygen,
food, water, and blood for the body; they are
not the point of life, but without
them there is no life. —Jim Collins
& Jerry Poras—Built to Last
Hey Mike just in case you might still be curious regarding what I was talking
about what you can and cannot ask in a job application, I was doing some more
business planning research this evening and I found this in an article on the
Inc magazine web site:
It didn't make any mention of what the penalty for messing up is or what the
chances are that you might get busted for it but it all bears consideration
I think and it's really not to hard to work around and avoid.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
type of employment - Subcontractor??
Other interests - What has this to do with whether you employ someone?
Since you are hiring at will Can let go for any reason with no notice, you also accept that the employeee can leave at any time with no notice, and of course will not hold it against them? Or did I read that part wrong?
bobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's cheat sheet
bobl- type of employment - Subcontractor?? Yeah
that relates to a lot of the people out there that don't want a permanent attachment
and want to work independently according to a schedule that the've designed
and set and who are carrying thier own insurance. I do a lot of theatrical scenery
and trade show exhibit type work and while there are a lot of people like that
in the building and remodeling trades in those industries there are even more.
Other interests - What has this to do with whether you
employ someone? To me it means a lot. If a guy tells he involved with
his veterans group, community theatre, volunteer fire department, stamp collecting,
or coaching little league that all means a lot to me. For one thing it means
he or she has a LIFE! I hired one guy a few years ago based solely on his talent
creditentials. After hiring him I asked him to fill out the Employemet Application
and that section and the section on the last page where I ask APPLICANTS STATEMENT:
Please feel free to use the space below for any personal statement or additional
comments you wish to make were left blank. Turns out the guy was like a sociopath
and all he did when he wasn't working was smoke pot and drink. If you leave
those areas blank I'll probably send you out the Thanks-but-no-Thanks-we'll-keep-your-information-on-file
letter and not arrange to interview you.
Since you are hiring at will Can let go for any reason
with no notice, you also accept that the employeee can leave at any time with
no notice, and of course will not hold it against them? Or did I read
that part wrong? The section where it says"I further understand
and agree that my employment is for no definite period and may, regardless of
the date of payment of my wages and salary, be terminated at any time without
previous notice." is what I think you are refering to as the Hiring
At Will Statement. Your interpretation is correct however I am considering instituting
employee agreements or contracts for certain positions although I'm still researching
that kind of stuff
Profit is like oxygen,
food, water, and blood for the body; they are
not the point of life, but without
them there is no life. —Jim Collins
& Jerry Poras—Built to Last
Jerrald,
On the subcontractor filling this out. Based on everything I've read of yours, you already considered the IRS view as to whether these are subcontracors or employees. But I had to ask.
On the employment at will. Had to mention that too. I don't appreacate one way agreements so again had to mention, but you already considered it.
bobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's cheat sheet
I agree. He should had been using an "employee" applications form for sub-contractors. You need to have a separate sub-contractor data sheet or something.
If these are true sub-contractors then you don't have control over them, only over the results of their work. You can't hire and fire them.
And I think that a number of those question are illegal.
Here is a link with a number of sections on employment law.
Bill Hartman- I agree. He should had been using an "employee"
applications form for sub-contractors.
I think that point is sort of a irrelevant in a way. It doesn't matter one
bit legally or organizationally until you actually hire the individual whether
they want to work as an employee (either temp, part-time, or full-time) or as
an independent contractor (which is the term I use on the new form instead of
sub-contractor). This is a form for any INDIVIDUAL that wants to work with my
company. I (we) make the decision as to whether we will hire the individual
as a Employee or Independent Contractor.
You need to have a separate sub-contractor data sheet
or something. -- I actually do have a different application and (database)
for what I consider genuine trade contractors. By genuine trade contractors
they have to have to be really operating as a business in the eyes of the IRS
and there is a checklist I have that I can run down to make sure they qualify.
That application and (database) keeps a slightly different set of data that
the Job Application one does for individuals. But I can still hire individuals
as Independent Contractors provided I meet the IRS guidelines.
If these are true sub-contractors then you don't have
control over them, only over the results of their work. You can't hire and fire
them. Sure you can. You can't fire them individually but you sure can
fire them altogether as a company.
"And I think that a number of those question are
illegal." Which questions do you think are illegal?
Bill the link on employment law didn't post could you try and post it again.
Profit is like oxygen,
food, water, and blood for the body; they are
not the point of life, but without
them there is no life. —Jim Collins
& Jerry Poras—Built to Last
Jerry,
I've noticed you've asked a couple of questions about "electrical skills" and then again about "drapery skills". Does anybody answer "A" under both topics?
-Peter
Peter-I've noticed you've asked a couple of questions
about "electrical skills" and then again about "drapery skills".
Does anybody answer "A" under both topics?- As I mentioned
or hinted at earlier this is a form that printed out from a database. I can
query the database (do a Find) and look to see if I have anyone who has indicated
an "A" level competency for both "electrical skills" and
"drapery skills". Nope, no one has. But I do have some individuals
at the BC and CC levels (444 records over the last seven years).
A more relevant search would be to find someone with A or B level "complex
trim skills" that also has A or B level "drapery skills".I had
a project a little over a year ago trimming out a 16,000 sf house and having
a trimmer that could handle the valance work in that house and because or their
added skill in understanding drapery they could have worked with and supervised
the drapery trade contractor. I didn't have anyone that fit that bill and couldn't
hire anyone from my database either so I ended up supervising that part of the
project. ( I have a drapery history from from working in the theatre both scenery
and costumes and have two of my own industrial grade sewing machines).
Not to jump to far ahead of myself by answering some of the comments that Jeff
Buck has but the application can be tailored to ask only certain areas. If I
was only interested in carpentry it could show only carpentry areas. If I was
only interested in considering electrical skills it could program it show just
electrical skill categories. There are a whole set of skill areas that I didn't
include as part of the PDF file I posted that are really more related to theatre
scenery and exhibit building.
Usually what I am interested in if you have a skill in one particular area
like the interior trim categories do you have skills in another area so that
you might be able to supervise a different trade you would be working with like
a draper, electrician, or plasterer etc..
Profit is like oxygen,
food, water, and blood for the body; they are
not the point of life, but without
them there is no life. —Jim Collins
& Jerry Poras—Built to Last
http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/ency/index.cfm/catID/4BEF1F62-722F-435E-98AB18960A6EAB0E
Thanks Bill, I already cruise the NOLO
Press web site pretty regularly for small business advice and I have quite
a few of their books and disks which have been incredibly helpful. It's a resource
that a lot of contractors here should checkout more often. My own independent
contractor agreement that I use for the one-man-band operations is based on
what I got from their book on it. I always appreciate reading your posts here,
thanks again.
Profit is like oxygen,
food, water, and blood for the body; they are
not the point of life, but without
them there is no life. —Jim Collins
& Jerry Poras—Built to Last
Well it's good that you brought it up and those those kinds of issues need
to be considered (acted on proactively) and most contractors just ignore them
or are ignorant of them. Especially the employee or independent contractor issue.
And I think there are plenty of contractors out there who are cheating on that
issue too.
I am sure there are things I am still missing or don't have covered though
so that's why I'm out here asking for criticism.
Profit is like oxygen,
food, water, and blood for the body; they are
not the point of life, but without
them there is no life. —Jim Collins
& Jerry Poras—Built to Last
http://www.bizoffice.com/library/files/human.txtbobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's cheat sheet
Jerrald,
usually do you use this form in lieu of a resume?
do the applicants usually fill it out on their own time? Or in your office?
I agree that it's more efficient to have a standard DB of applicant information and application forms, but I think how an applicant writes a resume can tell you a lot about an applicant pre-interview. perhaps how she writes the application form can do the same thing.
though for me it's got to the point where I don't like resumes/apps/none of that stuff.
I mean, do employers (except for you, ha ha) really look at that information anyway?
best, GO
My comments at the end would be thought...but unwritten! I'd be thinking.....man, this thing is way too long!
I go into interviews with a complete resume and a 2 book portfolio. I've interviewed many more times in the "professional" world as opposed to the "construction" world....and found that the "less paper/more questions" interviews of the professional world suited me better.
I can see how all the ABC lists would help ya sort the guys out.....but really...once ya hire them....they're gonna be doing what ever needs done anyway, right?
And are these app's every refered back to? And even then....why? Job site performance should tell ya everything you need to know.
I've filled out a ton of app's over my working life...and felt each one was a huge waste of my time. Here I am...sitting right across the table from ya.....read my resume....look at my pics...and ask me Q's......no need for anything filled out in triplicate!
I've noticed...the more "indepth" the application...the less the interviewer reads the resume and looks at the pics. Like they've already decided the only thing that matters is the app.......which annoys me when I have to fill out the very same info that's nicely typed on the res!
Best "interviews" have been....Nice res, nice pics....show up tomorrow and let's see what ya can build! We'll fill out the paperwork at the end of the day, if ya make it that far!
Jeff She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
Jeff- "My comments at the end would be thought...but
unwritten! I'd be thinking.....man, this thing is way too long!"
-- Hey it's long but it's thorough and it's helps project my seriousness and
sincerity about the hiring process to some people too. (And as I mentioned earlier
Jeff I can program it so it shorter too( or even longer))
Ya know one of the other things that I let applicants know is that I also share
all that information ( if they say okay to it) with other contractors I work
with at times, so even if they don't I don't hire them as an employee or and
Independent Contractor for a particular project they might get calls from those
other contractors too.
"I go into interviews with a complete resume and
a 2 book portfolio. I've interviewed many more times in the "professional"
world as opposed to the "construction" world....and found that the
"less paper/more questions" interviews of the professional world suited
me better". -- I haven't even gotten to my questions for the interview
process yet. As I mentioned above most tradespeople aren't as prepared or as
serious or as professional about their job hunting as you are. In fact even
after using the Employee Application to weed out the chafe before I get to the
interview process there are still people I meet with where the little voice
inside my head is screaming "why am I wasting my time with you,... you
weren't even prepared for this meeting!".
I can see how all the ABC lists would help ya sort the
guys out.....but really...once ya hire them....they're gonna be doing what ever
needs done anyway, right?"--Yeah but there's more to collecting
that information that anyone might see at first.
This particular FileMaker database is part of the system I've set up to
pretty much run my whole business. I do all my estimating and project planning
in it. When I first look at a project in a file I have called Project_Profiles
I have a checklist of the skill areas that would be required for that particular
project and those skill areas are the same ones as in the Job_Application,
Trade_Contrator, and Employee database sets so I can then query them to see
to see if I have the resources (individuals or trade contractors) available
I need to handle that particular project.
As I mentioned in my
response to Peter (PM22) above I might use the database to match an employee
who's skilled with exterior trim to work with and supervise a roofer working
on the same project based on that particular employees previous skill or knowledge
in that area.
I might also use the the Trade Interest attribute to place a Carpenter who
wants to learn Faux Finishing with a Faux Painter on a project so they can
get training and expertise in that new area ( think: Cross Training)
"And are these app's ever refered back to?"
Yup they sure are. At least by me. Am I a quirk as far as an employer? Maybe
so but we do quirky stuff to so it all helps. I like to think of it as leveraging
technology to the max of my ability. "And even then....why?
Job site performance should tell ya everything you need to know."--Well
I just indicated a couple of reasons why and as I mentioned in my
reply to GO I use them as part of the Employee Evaluation Process too. If
you rated yourself a C on all the interior trim categories and a year later
you were still a "C" in my estimation and in the estimation of your
co-worker I might let you know maybe you should be looking for a career in another
area with another company (we do mostly interior trim). On the other hand if
you pushed your rating up to an "A" level don't you think you compensation
package should be reevaluated with that in mind?
"I've filled out a ton of app's over my working
life...and felt each one was a huge waste of my time. Here I am...sitting right
across the table from ya.....read my resume....look at my pics...and ask me
Q's......no need for anything filled out in triplicate!"--Ya know
I remember back in the winter when you mentioned that you had been recently
laid off I thought if you were in my area I would have asked you to think about
joining us. I've always liked your attitude despite what what I detected as
a sort of bitter, skeptical, and sardonic attitude towards the establishment
(meaning contractor-employers in general). I like that. In fact that may be
exactly what I like (and maybe need too?).
One of the reasons I formed my own company was all the other companies that
I had worked for suckked in one way or another and I was always pretty critical
of them in my own mind. I've always wanted to build a better place to work so
that people like me would have a place to go and enjoy their jobs and grow and
expand their skills and interests. All skills aside the online Jeff Buck personality
I think I've come to know I think may be one of the kinds of personalities I'd
like to use to help me build a company.
"I've noticed...the more "indepth" the
application...the less the interviewer reads the resume and looks at the pics.
Like they've already decided the only thing that matters is the app.......which
annoys me when I have to fill out the very same info that's nicely typed on
the res!"-- Ya know it really annoys me when stubborn guys like
you who wont take ten minutes to fill out the information on my form, in a format
that makes my data entry a little easier, and thereby force me to waste forty
minutes of my time, sorting through their resume, and filling it out for them,
and ya know what? The database is still gonna be incomplete until he or she
completes it!!!
"Best "interviews" have been....Nice res,
nice pics....show up tomorrow" and let's see what ya can build!"
-- Supposing the guy or gal already has a job then
what do ya do? "We'll fill out the paperwork at the
end of the day, if ya make it that far!" I don't want to waste my
time or waste yours and this all helps me sort that out.
Thanks Jeff, keep thinking and keep'm coming.
Profit is like oxygen,
food, water, and blood for the body; they are
not the point of life, but without
them there is no life. —Jim Collins
& Jerry Poras—Built to Last
Oh yeah ya know what I just remembered. In the article I read on Sunday that
got me started on Pricing
for ‘perceived value’ it said about the company CWB magazine was
profiling
Interesting approach to hiring. What do you all make of that? ( "Pushing
the Limits-in case you want to read the full article)
Also I just got to thinking in response to the form taking too much effort
to fill out I might be thinking "if you can't fill out this paperwork
for me here what about the on the job and project paperwork when that comes
up?
Profit is like oxygen,
food, water, and blood for the body; they are
not the point of life, but without
them there is no life. —Jim Collins
& Jerry Poras—Built to Last
Jerrald....just remember...I prefaced all that by saying that's what would go unsaid!
In reality....I'd be happily filling out all the paperwork with a smile on my face! Having the resume right there to copy all the old names and address' from.
I do think the skills assessments could be useful. Most app's I've seen don't include that...and the one time I did fill out something almost exact to yours...was at the old company..........where the lead carps would have to tell the owners who they wanted for each specific job.......as the owners....how had all the info.....didn't have a clue as to who could do what. Cross referencing as you mentioned would be idea....if the system could be made workable. Is yours a work in progress......or do you have a template that gives the info as you need?
While we're kinda on the subject......who do you feel about an applicant that asks alot of detailed questions and truns the interview into a 2 way street?
I've interviewed alot. Sometimes in the past....just for practice. I was in various sales for almost 10 years....and the turnover in sales is real close to construction. I learned long ago........I'm much better at the interview if I get in in my head that I'm interviewing to decide which company get's to hire me....not the other way around!
In the sale field...I was told I interviewed real well...........when I first came back to remodeling...I had one guy tell me it was his job to ask the Q's and mine to answer! Guess it was a style he wasn't used to! I just told him we obviously wouldn't work well together and packed up.. He just looked kinda suprised that I was deciding to end it too.
I don't mean being arrogant or cocky....just maybe quiet confidence. To me.....I'd take that as a show of interrest.
I guess it may reflect on the owner himself....if he/they was all talk....might seems like calling his bluff......if he/they ran a good shop and were rightfully proud......might seem like someone that wants to put some thought into picking the right outfit.
What ya think? And what Q's do you ask?
Is ther anyone that doesn't hate "Where do you see yourself in 5/10/20 years?
I can usually come up with something to "Greatest strength and weakness' " though.That is usually....strenght......attention to detail and taking the time to get it right..........weakness......sometimes too much attention to detail and taking too much time worring about getting it right! In other words....I'm damn good...but not gonna be the fastest guy on the team.
Jeff
She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
Jeff-" at the old company..........where the lead
carps would have to tell the owners who they wanted for each specific job.......as
the owners....how had all the info.....didn't have a clue as to who could do
what." That was a key originating part of my idea in creating this
part of my system. Part of my idea was that the database was accessible to whoever
needed it whether it was a lead or project manager looking to line up a crew
or even just a tradesperson looking to find someone who could answer a question
on a particular subject.
Cross referencing as you mentioned would be idea....if
the system could be made workable. Is yours a work in progress......or do you
have a template that gives the info as you need? Well it does work but
there are improvements I am making or planning to make to it and I am sure there
is probably a dead end scripting bug in it somewhere that I'm just not running
into since I created the damn thing and I know how I want to to work. I beta
test the application with some real users maybe here on Breatime as soon as
I can make it a stand alone application that will operate seperate from the
rest of my database system ( estimating, job control, job costing etc etc)
That's also one of the reasons I'm asking questions about it here to. I looking
for thing like "ya know it would be great if it would yadda yadda yadda."
"While we're kinda on the subject......who do you
feel about an applicant that asks alot of detailed questions and truns the interview
into a 2 way street?" I like that and it actually scores points
with me. It shows me the individual is thinking and can help me understand how
much they know about business too.
"...I'm much better at the interview if I get in
in my head that I'm interviewing to decide which company get's to hire me....not
the other way around!" That's how I am with a lot of potential clients.
I am collecting information to make a decision as to whether or not their project
is something I want us to do.
"...when I first came back to remodeling...I had
one guy tell me it was his job to ask the Q's and mine to answer!"
Like you I'd say "well thanks for your time but I KNOW this isn't going
to work out" and I'd be heading toward the door. What a jerk. What arrogance!
What an idiot.
I don't mean being arrogant or cocky....just maybe quiet
confidence. To me.....I'd take that as a show of interrest. Yup, like
I said that would be a plus with me. It shows your taking an active part in
developing and directing your career.
What ya think? And what Q's do you ask? I'll post
them tomorrow
Is ther anyone that doesn't hate "Where do you see
yourself in 5/10/20 years?" When I first started this business I
had a partner and he used to hate it when I ask that kind of question only what
he hated was not that I was asking it but how I asked it. And I still ask it
the same way too. Regardless of your age I will ask you "what do you want
to be when you grow up"? Usually by the time I ask that the interviewee
has a pretty good idea that I'm sort of whimsical and I like to have fun so
they're generally not shocked or put off by it. If they are then they probably
wouldn't fit in to well in my Company's Culture. My original staid pedantic
partner split with me after only a few months. Funny thing too when he left
he said to me that I was "too much an artist and would never understand
business or be able to learn and understand computer technology". Maybe
that's why I am where I am today.
"...strenght......attention to detail and taking
the time to get it right..........weakness......sometimes too much attention
to detail and taking too much time worring about getting it right! In other
words....I'm damn good...but not gonna be the fastest guy on the team."
Fastest isn't the fastest if it has to be done twice although I've also seen
good craftsmen-carpenters who were slow just because of their weakness in organizing
and planing skills. Ya never really know and there are all types out there and
you need to organize our company so that you can make the best of all types
of people.
Like I just said I'll post my interview question guide tomorrow. Thanks again
for your feedback.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
Q..."What do you wanna be when U grow up?"
A......"Taller"........Jeff She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
The correct answer ( or at least one of the correct answers ) is "I don't wanna grow up" or something to that effect. I've always thought it's pretty neat that as a little kid I used to love to build stuff ( Hey remember Girders & Panels and Erector Sets?) and now I get payed to do what I've always done for fun.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
"what do you want to be when you grow up"?
I had a guy once ask me what type of animal I would be if I could be any animal for a day.
Any time someone asks me a question like this in an interview I always answer with a question. Most of the time the interviewer doesn't really know how to answer my question and that is that.
I also use to go on job interviews just for practice. I think I am pretty good at selling myself in an interview, I have turned down lots of jobs. It gets to the point where I can tell if I will get the job or not right from the first interview, I am usually about 80% correct. Interviewing is a skill and most of the time it doesn't have much to do with how good of an employee you would make. Also, writing applications is the same thing, I always custom taylor my app to fit the job that I am applying too.
I think the skills test is the way to go. Lots of people can talk a good game but actually performing under pressure is totally different. I worked a summer job while in college and the only open office space they had was in the human resources department. This company had applicants take skill tests and I would say about 35% just walked out because they couldn't do it and these where people who all ready interviewed and where looked at as potential hires.
Sean27 -I also use to go on job interviews just for practice.
I've done that in the past too. I was working as a hired gun project manager/super
on a project once and the GC was doing the carpentry using carpenter provided
by a temp agency. Using the temps wasn't at all as bad as I originally thought
it would be but I wondered where do they get these guys ( some were good some
were awful although you don't keep the awful ones around) and how are they paying
them. After doing another house for that builder (without the temps this time)
I knew I was going to have an open month or so before I was scheduled to start
another project.
So I applied for a job with that temp agency. They gave a psychological interview/test
over the phone and then called you in for an interview and then administered
a written carpentry exam and then I also had to take a drug test. They're a
pretty big company now with offices all over the eastern seaboard, Texas, Arizona,
and southern California. Back then they had just two offices. I was surprised
that no one in the office I interviewed recognized my name when I applied for
a job because just a few months earlier I use to talk to them on the phone a
couple of times a week and I signed and approved all of their temp's time cards.
I worked for them for a month or so even though the wage was just a little below
what thought a journey level carpenter should make. And then went on to another
one of my own projects.
Lately I've been thinking it would be interesting to apply for a job with Home
Depot. I really want to get a look at their whole process and see what it all
about but I think I might have a hard time hiding my recent history and they
would question why on earth I was looking for a job with them. Then I thought
and am still thinking that I might apply for a management job with them to see
how that works.
I think the skills test is the way to go. I have
given skills tests on occasion. I ask the applicant to properly lay out a rafter
and or a stair carriage but skills tests can be expensive to administer and
the results are shallow and don't mean much. I think what I learn from the interview
questions I ask is a lot more important. Like the company you are with now
I have had some applicants walk out when confronted with the rafter and or a
stair carriage problem so maybe just that one single problem to separate the
wheat from the chaff might be worthwhile.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
Jerrald:
I guess I will run down my experience at HD. I went in, located the computer kiosk, and began to fill out a prelim application. It asks for your info, prior work experience, areas of intrest, and then you take a very simple test involving some math and reasoning skills. A few days later, I was contacted and asked to come in for an interview. I sat down with the Human Resource Manager, handed him a Resume, and then had an interview for about half an hour. The questions were fairly routine, how did you handle this situation, tell me about a time when you did this, why do you want to work for HD, etc.
A week or two later, they called to set up a second interview. I ended up interviewing with an assistant manager, who asked me a few questions, then began to tell me all about some of the particulars of HD. It was pretty clear that they were going to offer me a posisition after the first 5 minutes or so.
For management posisitions, I don't know how the process differs. Most managers are promoted from within, but recently HD has began programs to bring in people from different backgrounds. For example, We recently hiried a new ASM who previously worked in telecommunications.
HDHomer
Thanks HDHomer, To tell you the truth I probably will never find the time to
pursue it. I always enjoy thinking about it though. So what do they ask you
in the interviews. Were they asking any situational questions like I ask ( click
for my guide to question to ask).
I've read the two books on Home Depot (Inside
Home Depot & Built
from Scratch) so since your an insider you've got me wondering what's your
take on them? I think it's a fascinating story.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
GO- "usually do you use this form in lieu of a resume?"
Not to jump ahead of myself again but most applicants are not as organized or
as professional about their job hunting efforts as Jeff Buck is. In lieu of
a resume? No In addition to or to compliment a resume yes. Either way eventually
I want to have the skill information entered in my database system because it
also becomes part of a employee review process further on down the road.
do the applicants usually fill it out on their own time?
Or in your office? --On their own time I send it to them with a cover
letter usually after they have responded by phone call to an ad or flyer they
have seen .
"...I think how an applicant writes a resume can
tell you a lot about an applicant pre-interview". --It sure can.
An the fact than most applicants don't prepare themselves like that says a lot
too. "perhaps how she writes the application form
can do the same thing."-- It does that too. A lot of people use
the extra space they find to comment more on their skills and or interests in
certain areas.
"I mean, do employers (except for you, ha ha) really
look at that information anyway?"-- I sort of wonder about that
but I sure do and both employees and applicants know it. You could be hired
and maybe a month or two down the road I may start to talk to you about an interest
you indicated where you weren't that skilled or we didn't have project in that
realm about doing it in the future or getting training in that area. That's
a big deal to a lot of people when you can show that kind of interest in their
career development.
Also when a year later you contact someone who once upon a time applied for
a position to talk to them about a project you might have coming up that fits
their skill set they seem to appreciate that recognition too.
Thanks for you comments and criticism, keep'm coming. I appreciate the help.
Profit is like oxygen,
food, water, and blood for the body; they are
not the point of life, but without
them there is no life. —Jim Collins
& Jerry Poras—Built to Last