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We are planning to build a home in a few years. We plan to hire someone and not do any (or not much) of the work ourselves. Problem is that we’ve not had much luck working with contractors–which is why we almost always end up doing the work ourselves. Also, I can be just a little difficult to work with (mostly with male contractors who think that women don’t know anything about construction)–I try not to be, but, there you are.
Anyway, I’ve been trying to come up with some way of finding someone good without wasting a lot of everyone’s time. Would like input on whether the following would work (with modifications?), or whether it’s just a bad idea.
1. Design web site (I like computer stuff) with info on us, what we want in terms of a house, our expectations, etc–everything we can think of that we might discuss in a person-person interview, including as much financial info as we feel we can reasonably put on a web site.
2. Send site address to builders we know/have been recommended, maybe post to a forum–builders can peruse at their leisure, decide if there’s anything worth pursuing, em-ail back a “mini-proposal” of how they would handle the project, recommendations, ball-park estimate.
3. Have an FAQ portion of any questions that get asked and our response so that everyone is acting on the same information.
4. Narrow list down to 2-3 and meet with those in person to determine how well personalities mesh.
Would really appreciate any thoughts anyone has on this. Don’t want to end up being the dreadful clients some of you talk about, but do want to be happy with the house we build.
Thanks.
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nope...i think your quest would be backwards...
you advertsiing for a GC will probably attract the wrong ones..
the one you want is already working... you want to find her / him and set up a plan ... design ...budget..
no short cuts... YOU have to do your homework..
ditch the web site..
b but hey, whadda i no ?
*I agree with Mike. "Ditch" the web site and put your time into talking with a GC (or 2 or 3). There's no easy way to find a Contractor that is going to suit all your expectations. Take a Sunday drive and look for a home similar to what you want built and talk to the homeowner. They are more likely to give you an honest opinion of that contractor. Keep in mind that you and your contractors relationship is based upon the contract. As long as every detail of the job is covered in that contract, the job should go rather smooth. A lot of problems arise from personality conflicts. As a GC myself I can tell you that my job is to perform according to the contract in a professional manner. Not to be everyones friend. I don't want that to sound negative but, too many times that friendship/professional barrier is crossed. Choose your GC by merit not because he tells a good joke. All GCs know a few good jokes!
*KathleenIf you don't plan on building for a few more years, take your time looking for a GC. The biggest complaint I have is having a prospective customer come into the office, wanting to build within the next couple of months and not have a dang thing written down or even a idea of how big a house, what style, etc. Pick out a floor plan, do specifications for everything from flooring right up to the roof shingles.Drive around on weekends looking at homes under construction now. Walk thru the house if you can, looking at eveything. If you like the craftsmanship, quality of materials, etc., then get the builders name and make an appointment with them. Let them know up front what type of GC you are looking for and the how you feel. Be honest with them. We builders/contractors/GC do not intentionally try to be condencending with homeowners but you would be suprised by how many homeowners watch Norm & Bob & the rest of the DIYer shows & really make themselves a pain in the rear. Honesty up front will save a lot of problems down the road.Vince
*Kathleen,I agree that the better contractors are probably not out there looking for work. The work is coming to them. But it won't cost much (other than your time) to try the website approach.I kind of infer that you like to get involved in the details; you ask your contractor a lot of questions, right? Here are a couple of suggestions that may help you find your perfect GC:--With the long lead time you have, gain some real expertise in residential construction. Books are great, also Fine Homebuilding (obviously!) and the Journal of Light Construction. Volunteer with your local Habitat for Humanity; you'll get to see (and participate in) the practical considerations of building a house. You'll also see that there's a lot more to it than is shown on "This Old House" or "Home Time", and that there are many ways to do a task correctly. And not every detail has to be perfect for the house to be perfect.--Find a female GC. That might help with what you take to be the gender issue. Or maybe not...you may be evoking a "jerk" response from some contractors because:1. they're good builders, but they just generally don't like their decisions being questioned, or being asked to explain what they're doing and why. (These guys ought to be building tract or spec houses);2. they feel that you don't trust them (this goes deeper than "they don't like being questioned"), and they respond by trying to shut you down;3. there's just jerks (hey, it happens);4. you're sort of a jerk...do you feel deep down that nothing is good enough? Do you criticize on petty things and fail to praise when someone meets or exceeds reasonable expectations?I've found that to motivate people (and your GC is a person, after all), you have to praise them about 4 times as often as you question them or offer constructive critcism. The praise has to be sincere, and the question or criticism has to be focussed. I don't mind having a homeowner ask questions just out of curiousity, or even (on occasion) fundamentally question what I'm doing or why. But if it's a regular thing, it suggestes that there's no trust in the relationship. That makes it very difficult to work for someone.Good luck with the new house.
*Forget the Web Site, It'd be too much of a shotgun effect for the effort. I'd suggest a much more personal approach. I would spend time interviewing Contractors instead. If you say you're difficult to work with, than expect to interview more than 2 or 3 people. Start with your friend's Contractors and than do as the others suggest, go around town and see the projects that are similar to your own project and talk to the owner as well as the contractor. Almost anyone can do an okay job on a project, but how the project is done is important. Was the contractor on time? Neat? Did the AC solve problems or create them? How was the communication between the AC and the Owner? You'd be surprised how open an Owner is expressing their views on their General. If you find that alot of male Contractors don't address your needs, look up some female Contractors and look into their track record. Good Luck! ay
*Hi Kathleen, If you're not going to embark on this project for a few years then you'll have plenty of time to find some one good. What's good? The question should be who is good for you in terms of performing the work to the specs. Certainlythe contractor has to deliver the job according to the plan and specifications. So in following this train of thought and at the risk of repeating what others have said-do your home work! Get a well drawn and carefully articulated plan to start with. This will help enormously. The more input you infuse here, the better. No skimping on the details either! With a well conceived plan in hand you're ready to shop your project. So you are a little difficult.Who isn't? Are you honest and fair in presenting yourself? Are you decisive or do you hem and haw?Do you maintain an even temper in trying situations?These are questions you may want to ask yourself and also in the context of hiring some one. What are the kinds of people you relate well with? Do you prefer an older and experienced person? Do you prefer working with and being around people your own age?Think of those people in your life's experience that were positive and remember their attributes. Seek those that are like that. And good luck!Hope this is of a little help,Dan-O
*Thanks to everyone for the responses. Guess we'll do the looking the "normal" way.Have done a fair amount of remodeling--substantial, not just painting. Latest project is redoing the roof on our current house--tear-off of 4 layers of shingles (3 asphalt, 1 cedar), new sheathing, new architectural shingles--so I'm intimately familiar with the labor and time involved. What I'm trying to learn on this house is what several of you alluded to --when is it "good enough"? I repeat regularly to myself as I'm nailing the shingles that slight gaps between shingles is good, that the shingles will look straight even if they are a little off here and there, etc. This is very hard for someone who was trained in mathematics, but the new roof actually looks pretty good.Will continue to work on house specs (started last year) and level of knowledge (next major effort will be to redo all existing plumbing). Got a subscription to Journal of Light Construction for Christmas.Appreciate your time and comments!
*Kathleen,I direct potential clients to my web site all the time to give them a better idea of what I'm all about. I wouldn't mind a short contact with a URL added from a potential client. This is a new way of communicating, but it's growing daily. Like e-mail and the fax, things are changing. I remember when you had to do all your calls in the morning, and then along came a cell phone. .. and pretty soon everybody had one hung on their ear as they drove down the highway. I think the web thing will be a common business practice in the future, but for now you'll be plowing fresh earth. I'd say do it, just another tool. http://www.jjwalters.com
*Hi KathleenJust from reading your post, it's obvious that you are leaps and bounds ahead of most people in the way that you are approaching this.As long as you are planning a couple years in advance, I would just recommend getting on a waiting list for the most sought after homebuilder in your area (there's a reason they will be the most sought after, and it won't be because they are cheap!)I applaud you for understanding that the contractor you choose is in business to make money (and hopefully doing something that is fulfilling) and NOT in business to give his talents and expertise away to do free work.As the old, worn out say goes...."you get what you pay for"....Most of the time, it's actually true. You come across as already knowing that; and that will save you many of the frustrations that most people end up dealing with by trying to JUST get something done as inexpensively (believe me, I know we all like to save money) as possible.I know this did'nt really have a whole lot to do with your question, and I apologize for the rambling, but it is refreshing and reassuring to know that prospective clients do actually think about why a contractor is in business and how the personal relationship will affect the job.With your understanding and willingness to do your homework on this, I don't think you are going to have any problem.Again, sorry for the rambling and thank you for your refeshing viewpoint on finding a contractor.Jay
*Kathleen,All good points.What makes a job? Three things:1. The program. Define what you want.This includes not only the plans and specs, but expectations of the G.C. The more info, the better.Write it all down and make that part of the bidding documents2. The budget. Be clear and define this on the first meeting with the above. I require a Owner to define the budget so as not to waste time.3. Quality. Again, define your expectations. The G.C.'s previous work will act as the story stick on this one. As stated before, your miles ahead of the ordinary.By the way, my best clients are picky. Don't be ashamed to admit to being picky or a pain. Be clear and require the G.C. to be clear. And make it clear that you want this to be a pleasurable experence for both parties. Luck
*mark... you said .. (( 2. The budget. Be clear and define this on the first meeting with the above. I require a Owner to define the budget so as not to waste time. )).. i always discuss budget.. but when i get done putting all their needs and desires on paper .. the budget looks stupid..how do you get them to ""define the budget""this has always been a major problem with me...
*Ditto, what Mike said....Getting a budget figure is like pulling teeth. Most don't have a clue as to what their money buys these days. Sometimes, as has also been mentioned by others, the final figure even surprises me and I begin second guessing my sorry estimating skills.
*Mike, Rather, the question is "How much do you want to spend"This almost always makes folk gasp because they are conditioned to the practice of getting 3 bids. Unless your building something of complete, and I mean complete plans and specs, bids are a waste of time.So, a first conversation, (I call it the Interveiw)goes like this.......What do you want to do?How much do you want to spend?I no longer bid jobs, I work with you (the client) to define your wishes, discover if your budget is realistic, (it never is!) and the quality of materials you wish to use.Clients sometimes have no idea what thing cost so I'll help them by sharing with them average costs.Remember, your asking them to define how much money they want to spend. There is always a limit.You must be assertive and get that answer on the first meet.This is a sure way to eliminate "tire kickers" and by using this method, I get 98% of the jobs I look at.I learned this method from an old, respected, Architech, who I had the pleasure of having lunch with once a week, for about a year. He later had a stroke and declined slowly, he died last year. I miss him.Luck
*And of course, what client's will never admit to is their fear that if they state a budget of say $150,000, the contractor will quote them a price of $150,000 for a job he would normally do for $135,000. The fear of being take advantage of. It's a problem for the client and every legit contractor, yet, a subject that must be discussed on the table.
*mark...i always get that.... then when we do the list of their "needs"we talk about it again..... i always get a budget from them...when i go back and design the "prototype" (which is what every job is) the budget gets exceeded..rick ritavoy (from what little i know of him) builds and prices the remodel off his laptop right in front of them..short of doing that .. i never know what the job will cost until i design it and price it..if i include all of their wish list..the budget is bye-bye.. then they won't give up their wishes.. so they either change their budget or change their contractor... on the theory that they can get what they want someplace else for less... though i know they can't ... they don't find out until later..anyways mark.. i was hoping you had discovered the holy grail...and would share....
*Thanks for your point Sonny, I run into that sometimes. I usually cure it by saying "Oh, $150,000?I think a budget of $175.000.00 is more realistic and remember to have a slush fund of 20% to cover additional desires."After definitions are written, the job is budgeted for $135.000.00 and everyone is happy.Mike, you must go to your drawing board with that defined budget as the paramiter of the outcome of your design. Do not return to the client with a design that is over budget. Design with-in the budget and let the client raise the budget. Everytime the client says, "Oh, how bout a french door here?" You say "Sure, but that will add $2,500.00 to the existing budget.Let them raise the budget. The other thing I now do is to get a design deposit. On the first meet. This does two things. It protects and pays for my investment in the hours I spend and it dedicates the client to me. It also give me some objectivity. It also gives you and the client a back door to get out of further dealings if things go sour. Just keep good records.I guess if there is a holy grail in this, it's all in that first meeting. (the Interveiw) Sorry I'm not as articulate as some.Luck
*By the way, it's my bithday and I quit smoking today.Luck
*congrats, mark.... quit 14 or so years ago... for a bout the 100th time.. but no regrets now.....i always get a design deposit and design contract....marrying the budget to the project is a whole 'nother ball game...god is in the details .. but the devil is in the numbers....
*Cost is probably the weakest area in my planning. Can figure out all the materials, but then I'm using retail prices on individual items. Or are retail prices close enough, and by using them I build in the conservatism needed to ensure that we don't go over budget? Is doubling the cost of materials still considered the rule of thumb for getting an installed cost? Since we usually end up doing the work ourselves I have no feel for installation costs.Thanks
*Kathleen,Use the retail price and set them up on a spread-sheet. Make this part of the bid package and/or lay it out for your builder and ask him/her how they want to handle it. Do they want to mark them up? or have each sub provide fitures?The deal I give my clients is I'll provide all fixtures at my cost, if they are doing all the work of chasing down the selecton and #'s. The drawback is I or my subs will not warrant the labor if it fails. Faucets and tile, ect. rarly fail so I think it's a good deal for the Owner. It makes my life easier because I'm charging only for my labor/subs and I don't have to fool around with allowances.Kathleen, if your not sure of labor costs, consider hiring someone as a consultant. I've provided that service to both working clients as a preliminary to arrive at that budget # and as an independant, not involved with the actual job. Check around, builders love to answer questions, and if you offer to pay them for it, heaven!Luck
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We are planning to build a home in a few years. We plan to hire someone and not do any (or not much) of the work ourselves. Problem is that we've not had much luck working with contractors--which is why we almost always end up doing the work ourselves. Also, I can be just a little difficult to work with (mostly with male contractors who think that women don't know anything about construction)--I try not to be, but, there you are.
Anyway, I've been trying to come up with some way of finding someone good without wasting a lot of everyone's time. Would like input on whether the following would work (with modifications?), or whether it's just a bad idea.
1. Design web site (I like computer stuff) with info on us, what we want in terms of a house, our expectations, etc--everything we can think of that we might discuss in a person-person interview, including as much financial info as we feel we can reasonably put on a web site.
2. Send site address to builders we know/have been recommended, maybe post to a forum--builders can peruse at their leisure, decide if there's anything worth pursuing, em-ail back a "mini-proposal" of how they would handle the project, recommendations, ball-park estimate.
3. Have an FAQ portion of any questions that get asked and our response so that everyone is acting on the same information.
4. Narrow list down to 2-3 and meet with those in person to determine how well personalities mesh.
Would really appreciate any thoughts anyone has on this. Don't want to end up being the dreadful clients some of you talk about, but do want to be happy with the house we build.
Thanks.