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Discussion Forum

Septic back up

ward121 | Posted in General Discussion on April 27, 2006 03:27am

    I have a Septic and leach field, 1000 gal tank 20 ft run from house,  unknown field design, very high water table,  In past years during the rainy spring we get some bubbling in sinks when you flush or unplug a sink.   Neighbors also complain about this. There is a common drainage ditch that is very high this time of year…..

  This year along with the bubbles and burps, when the clothes washer stared to drain it backed up and spilled into the basement (clothes water not sewage)

   I figured I may have a clog. so I ran a snake (25ft) down the line…nothing but some bits of TP.   When I sighted into the pipe (4 inch) I can see standing water.

  Now I am not a plumber (or roofer, but that’s another thread) and don’t spend a lot of time looking into waste pipes. Should there be standing water in the pipe?

  I can see the slope of the pipe. It only takes 6.5 feet for the pipe to be filled (measured with the snake)

  I feel it’s the standing water and high water table near the field that has flooded the system.  Any other ideas????

  I have called three professionals, hoping one will call back.

 

Thanks

Ward

 

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  1. chrispy | Apr 27, 2006 03:46am | #1

    Ward, this sounds like it could be a leach field problem,  I would look at the level in the septic tank there should be some distance between the top of the tank and the water level, (not sure but think this would be bout 12 -18 inches)  if the tank is overflowing or at the very top of the tank then your leach field is saturated and it could be that the water table is high enough to flood it.  I am sure the experts you called will be able to diagnose the problem for you.   It could be a plugged line going from your distribution box to the field or perhaps root clogging in the leach lines themselves.  Best to get the experts advice.  Good luck

     



    Edited 4/26/2006 8:48 pm ET by chrispy

  2. User avater
    MarkH | Apr 27, 2006 04:24am | #2

    Honey dippin time.

  3. DanH | Apr 27, 2006 05:16am | #3

    Either the leach field is clogged or the water table is just that high. Neither possibility is a good one.

    Get the tank pumped, and see if the tank is full of solids. If so then you'll probably need a new leach field. If not then you need to figure out some way to lower the water table, possibly by dredging/clearing the drainage ditch.

    If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
    1. User avater
      Soultrain | Apr 27, 2006 05:26am | #4

      Why would solids in the tank indicate a failed leach field?  Aren't the solids supposed to stay in the tank?

      Regardless, if the leach field HAS failed, it might be worth giving Septic Seep a shot before shelling out big bucks.  It won't help if it's an issue with the water table though.

      1. DanH | Apr 27, 2006 06:17am | #6

        If the tank is FILLED with solids up to the outlet then likely the leach field is clogged.The only semi-reliable way to rejuvenate a leach field is with industrial strength hydrogen peroxide, and that requires excavating each end of each lateral.
        If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison

      2. atrident | Apr 27, 2006 06:59pm | #12

          I had the baffle at the outflow side of my tank(concrete) fall off thereby letting solids flow out to the drainfield. Had to put in a new drainfield.

  4. brownbagg | Apr 27, 2006 06:01am | #5

    high water table

  5. philarenewal | Apr 27, 2006 06:17am | #7

    >>"Should there be standing water in the pipe?

    No.  Flow in the pipe carries away solids.  There should never be standing water in a drain pipe (except a trap, 'course ;-)

    >>"I feel it's the standing water and high water table near the field that has flooded the system.  Any other ideas????

    A high water table at the drain field end can result in standing water in the drain pipe, assuming your septic tank is sealed (else the water would just come up onto the surface of the ground at the tank).  The standing water in the drain pipe as you described doesn't cause a backup, it is the result of a backup.

    If your drainfield is at or below the water table, it can't work properly.  Water seeks its own level.  If that's is the problem, then you have a problem.  Depending on your local regs, the drain field has to be some certain distance above the water table.  That can mean pumps, mounds, $$$, peat digester systems, more $$$, etc.

    If it's just that your drainfield is saturated and can no longer handle the daily flow, there is a process you can try called a terralift where a machine injects high pressure air into the soil to uncompact it and fracture it.  Might be worth a try.

    Other possibilities: the outflow tube at the tank is clogged or broken.  You have roots in a drain pipe.  The tank is so overfull of solids that they have clogged the outflow.  Probably a million more I can't think of right now.

     

     

    "Let's get crack-a-lackin"  --- Adam Carolla

    1. ward121 | Apr 27, 2006 01:07pm | #8

      Thanks alot for the info guys!  Thats what I figured. First I need to get some water moving away from the field by geting the ditch cleaned out. When the field is dryer I will get the pro's down there to check it out.

      Thanks again

      Ward 

      1. blue_eyed_devil | Apr 27, 2006 02:21pm | #10

        It's springtime Ward...high water table time!

        Your field is probably built too low and some of it lays lower than the high water mark.

        To fix your field, you are going to have to rebuild it higher.

        blue 

    2. DaveRicheson | Apr 27, 2006 01:15pm | #9

      Sounds like you covered it all.

      Also sounds like a fairly shallow tank. If it needs to be dug up for pumping it won't cost any more to dig out the discharge side of the tank. Pull the plug over the discharge pipe and watch it as the tank is being pumped. Water flowung back into the tank from that side is an indication of a downstream stoppage, a failed field, or a high water table, all of which will cause the system to back up.

       

      Dave

  6. LeeLamb | Apr 27, 2006 02:28pm | #11

    Another opinion...

    Put the washer on a separate line to a dry well.  I dug a four diameter by eight foot deep hole and filled it with goarse gravel. It was only a ten foot run from the house. My little septic system sighed relief.  Mine was only two 250 gallon tanks, home-made out of red brick.  With the laundry water going elsewhere the septic tank was able to handle the waste of a family of four. 

    Another benefit is the tank works better without all the chlorine bleach killing the bacteria. 

    Good luck.

     

    1. TomT226 | Apr 27, 2006 07:09pm | #13

      Ditto on that.  I put my washer and two showers and a BT on a gray water system that I use to water the lawn.  Water is a killer to poor perk... 

      1. experienced | Apr 27, 2006 10:27pm | #14

        There are septic tank outlet filters you can install to protect your leaching field from blockage by solids/grease/oil. In our area, the installed cost from tank pumpers at the time of cleanout is about $125......not bad insurance since redoing a leach field here can cost from $5,000 to $20,000 depending on the local soil drainage characteristics.

        Even if you keep up on maintenance such as regular pumping and be careful of what goes down the drain, there are some items coming to light that the filter can help. We have a lot of synthetic fibers in our clothing now. These do not get broken down by bacteria and flow through the tanks with the blackwater going to the leach field. Over time they can block the drainage holes/crushed stone in the field.

        If you are not careful about regular pumping, the filter catches solids/grease/oil and stops drainage to the field. You now have slow/poor draining fixtures and/or black water seepage on your lawn as the signal that something's amiss.

        1. LeeLamb | Apr 27, 2006 10:36pm | #15

          Another killer besides the synthetic fibers are teenaged daughters and certain hair care products.  Mine used some type of hairspray that "plastic coated" the inside of the tanks and clogged the leach bed. I could peel-off sheets of it from the sides.  It was almost like shellac (probably was shellac). 

          1. LeeLamb | Apr 28, 2006 12:12am | #16

            A funny little (true) septic story...

            Twenty years ago I came home and the Mrs. reported "the drains are all backed up."  I opened up the cover to the septic tank and noticed it was a couple feet low (for the very first time). So I got out my one inch, fifty foot long snake and try to clear the blockage from the septic tank end.

            I tried for ten minutes to start the snake into the tile (about four feet away) but I just couldn't hit it blind. I decided to put my head down there to actually see what I was doing.  I laid on my belly and looked around with a flashlight. 

            Because I needed my arms down there most of my weight was inside the tank and I almost did a gainer into it!  There was no way to start the snake and not fall in, so I recruited my wife to sit on my calves, anchoring me to the topside of terra firma.  Now, I must interject a little extra detail into this story: we live on the edge of a swamp.  My wife and I got our signals worked out and I lowered my upper self down into the tank where a common watersnake about three feet long swam right past my face! I yelled "SNAKE! SNAKE!" and my ever efficient wife fed another 10 or 15 feet of snake into the tank where it coiled up and caused even more trauma to it's reptilian cousin.  I tried to get out and kept yelling "SNAKE!" and my sweetie-kins kept pushing more in.

            Now the snake (steel) was all coiled up in there. The other snake kept swimming by in a frenzy and I was half worn out trying to get myself out. My wife was sitting on my legs and I just could not twist myself around to exit. That's when I started to laugh at the absurdity of the situation. Now if you don't already know this, pay heed; when you laugh you lose muscle control as in "YOU CAN NO LONGER KEEP YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE EFFLUENT!"  When my face went under for the second time my dear sweet wife grabbed the back of my shirt and yanked me out and laughingly asked "What is the matter with you anyway?  Why did you duck your face into that?" 

            I explained to her what had occurred.  She said "You really know how to treat a girl to a fun night out."

            Ten minutes later I got down in there again and started the snake into the tile and cleared the blockage. The wiggly snake was gone (probably to tell his friends about my face dunking.)  

            When sanitary sewers were installed in our little village we were the first ones to tie-in!  

             

  7. JimB | Apr 28, 2006 02:52am | #17

    Wastewater standing in the sewer line is either due to a clog somewhere downstream or from saturated soil (high seasonal water table).  Look for clogs at these places:  sewer line, septic tank inlet, septic tank outlet, distribution box (if the system is designed with a distribution box).  This involves uncovering parts of the system, obviously.  If sewage in the tank is below the inlet, then the clog is in the sewer line, or the inlet. 

    If sewage is above the inlet of the tank, then the clog is at the outlet of the tank, the distribution box or the drainfield.  If sewage is above the outlets of the distribution box, then the problem is the absorption field.

    If the elevation of the water in the drainage ditch is higher in elevation than the pipe in the drainfield, then there is a very good chance that the problem is ground water.  Your message implies that this problem occurs this time of year, but the system functions properly most of the year.  That is a good sign of a high seasonal water table.  In that case, the only thing that is likely to work is installing a new absorption system, shallower or at a higher elevation. 

    I don't recommend separating your graywater into a separate system without contacting the health department or whatever agency permits septic systems in your community.  Gray water is generally considered sewage, and an illegal drainfield alteration may get you into trouble, and if not properly designed, could be either a source of pollution to the groundwater, a waste of money, or both. 

    If you can't get a drainfield contractor to call, try the local health department.  They should be able to help (but will also likely follow up to ensure that you get the problem fixed).

     

     

    1. ward121 | Apr 28, 2006 03:32am | #18

      Again thanks Very much!  It stoped raining and all ready it has gotten better.

        Last fall I redid the sump that was runing into the septic, and it runs alot. It now goes to daylight away from the field.  thats why this years sink "gurgle" and the back up of the washer was a surprise.  

        Next I get that ditch cleaned!!!!! 

      1. JimB | Apr 28, 2006 02:32pm | #20

        You probably would have said, but it's worth asking anyway:  Is there anything on the property that directs run-off toward the drainfield?   If the property slopes toward the drainfield the surface and very shallow groundwater can sometimes flood the trenches during rainfalls.  Even gutters or a paved driveway can add an amazing amount of water to drainfield and cause the system to fail.  Sometimes that can be fixed by using swales or "french drains" to divert the water away from or around the drainfield.

        And very good move to change the sump!  I've seen more than one system fail for that reason.

        1. ward121 | Apr 29, 2006 04:22am | #21

          Jim,  I have a drainage ditch that follows one side and the back of the property. Almost 1 acre.  The "ditch is maintained by the county. As of Late they have been reluctente to clean it because last time they had equipment problems and were almosst sued by the ajsant land owners.  You have to clean up your hydrolic oil spills.

            Anyway, I think the problem is sillt build up. Over the years the ditch has gotten wider and slower, with a lot of cattails growing. 

            One neighbor has taken it upon himself to dig it out and has had great sucsess. He is in the excuvating buiness and is willing to help. He just isn't around much. He works in Boston and lives here at the top of NY.  And enjoys his time off. Can't  blame him.

          Back to the point...I will get the water moving again.  I just needed a.....second opinon that it was the standing water.  I also think the field neeeds some work. But first I just need to keep it working untill the $$'s get in....

           

          Thanks again

          Ward 

          1. JimB | Apr 29, 2006 03:33pm | #25

            Sounds like the drainage ditches need to be addressed regardless of the septic system problem!  And it's likely to improve the septic system situation also.

            If you still have problems after addressing the ditches, you can always return to this forum for additional advice.  : )

          2. DanH | Apr 29, 2006 08:09pm | #26

            Yeah, if there's one thing we've got plenty of here it's "advice" -- enough to float a dozen hot air balloons.
            If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison

  8. justinbearing | Apr 28, 2006 03:38am | #19

    Here's what caused mine to back up.

  9. curley | Apr 29, 2006 06:31am | #22

    If you decide that its because of the high water table and not a clog, there is another option. You could put an ejection pit between the tank and distribution box. Put a terd grinder pump in the pit with a check valve preventing back flow.

    for years we had the same problem with a high water table. Got tired and installed a  mound system with a pump up to the drain field.

    1. philarenewal | Apr 29, 2006 06:59am | #23

      >>"installed a  mound system with a pump

      Hey Curley, how much green did that set you back? 

      "Let's get crack-a-lackin"  --- Adam Carolla

      1. curley | Apr 29, 2006 09:31pm | #28

        I can't give you an exact amount...........

        $1500 for 130 yards of dirt for the cover

        $600 for the  1" gravel

        $$2000 for all the plumbing

        Total something like another $1000 for the pump and other stuff.(permit and soil engineer, rental stuff)  around $5000 total.

        1. philarenewal | Apr 29, 2006 10:21pm | #31

          Wow.  $5k.  Around these parts (out in the counties -- the city has sewers), that will basically get you perc test, approved design by SEO and permit.  Lots of clay and shelf rock -- so mostly sand mound and peat systems.  I had a place out in rural paradise a few years back (hmm, actually more than a few, time flies) and had to get a permit for a new system before I could sell it.

          I figured there had to be huge regional variations in price by the way folks were talking about the different systems and problems in a couple different threads.  Round here, somebody says septic problems and it's like RUN! 

          "Let's get crack-a-lackin"  --- Adam Carolla

          1. Piffin | Apr 29, 2006 11:04pm | #32

            A mound with infiltrators here can run you $15-20,000. No gravel on the island so ferry transport adds to cost, and clean ground water is a precious commodity on an island 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          2. philarenewal | Apr 29, 2006 11:47pm | #34

            >>"A mound with infiltrators here can run you $15-20,000.

            That's about what a system goes for here too (average price).  A tough pill to swallow if it comes as a surprise.  If the systems were closer to the $5k mentioned in another region, there'd be much less angst about it.

            The townships require pumping the tank every 2 years (or was it 3?) anyway every 2 to 3 years, and the pump guy is supposed to inspect and tell the townships if he sees a problem.  Some townships also have guys that do a surface inspection every couple of years and send you a letter of compliance or non-compliance.  Keeps the water clean(er).  ;-)

            In my case, when I bought the place the SEO I used to inspect the system found the water was basically running underground to a nearby creek instead of percing into the drain field, so I knew when I bought it I was in for a new system.  The township had a sewer line across a street, so I planned to hook into that.  Then things changed and I decided to sell.  Buyers required only that I get a system permitted so they knew either way they'd either hook into the line or if that turned out to be impossible for some reason they could worst case build a new on-lot.  Anyway, more useless trivia.  ;-) 

            "Let's get crack-a-lackin"  --- Adam Carolla

    2. DanH | Apr 29, 2006 03:22pm | #24

      Illegal in some areas.
      If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison

      1. Piffin | Apr 29, 2006 09:07pm | #27

        and required in others 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      2. curley | Apr 29, 2006 09:33pm | #29

        Actually I was told to put a mound system in by my county sanitation guy if I wanted to build my addition.

        1. DanH | Apr 29, 2006 10:16pm | #30

          The problem with a mound system is that it will continue to "operate" even if the leach field has failed, effectively dumping raw sewage onto the ground, into creeks, etc.
          If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison

          1. curley | Apr 29, 2006 11:10pm | #33

            I guess your right based on the orginal post. (Supossing his problem is ground water). But..........it depends how much your pumping, If he got a small family ......say three people flushing the toilet...........the guy's got to flush the toilet. I didn't say it was the best way.

            another thread might be what my neighbors do in my neighborhood, It would raise some eyebrows.

            an ejection pit might be a short term solution. I can sympathize with an overflowing toilet, especially when you have small kids. "I thought I told you not to flush the toilet!!!!!!!

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