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Sequence for Laying Sheet Vinyl Flooring

WayneL5 | Posted in Construction Techniques on January 9, 2005 10:46am

Soon I’ll try laying my first sheet vinyl.  It’s in a bathroom with a tiny linen closet.  What is the sequence you use — do you completely trim the sheet for a final fit all around then pull it back and apply the adhesive, or get the major portion fitted, apply the adhesive, and do the precise trimming as you lay it into the adhesive?  Or something else?

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  1. Piffin | Jan 10, 2005 01:00am | #1

    I would start with removing the toilet first, and the linen closet if it is a cabinet unit.

    But for the sheet material itself, yes - do the major cuts first and then apply the adhesive. if you try to perfect cut fuirst, it can move or stretch on you while you roll it back and glue then reset, leaving it no longer a perfect fit.

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  2. mightyJIM | Jan 10, 2005 01:01am | #2

    I would use a technique called pattern scribing. take a piece of red rosin paper and cut it to within 1" of walls , tub, shower, or whatever. then take a piece of scrap 2x4 about three inches long and place it against the above mentioned obstacles and mark it out on the rosin paper. you may need to tape a few pieces together for the whole room. then in the paper only cut a few 4" holes to tape the pattern to the sheet vinyl. take the block and mark out the vinyl from the template and cut it out. for your first time i would cut a 1/4" big and trim to fit during install. take into room and place into position. depending if product is full spread or perimieter spread start glueing the big area first.

    armstrong makes a pattern scribing kit that gaurantees a perfect install if you follow the directions or they refund you the money for the vynil and kit. i have seen the armstrnog kit at the depot.

     other advice take your time and sharp blades you cant stretch linol.

    1. Piffin | Jan 10, 2005 01:25am | #3

      We'r talking sheet vinyl, niot linoleum here, and whether it changes size depends on temperatures, quality of product, and experience of installer. 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      1. mightyJIM | Feb 04, 2005 05:38am | #7

        i am an expirienced installer. i am certified for forbo, mannington and spent a week at armstrong school. i assumed the house had a humidifier and the temp will probably never go throgh a freeze and thaw cycle unlike some commercial jobs that i have been on. as for the difference between the terms vynil and linol its an oldschool thing. i have been lucky enough to be trained by some of the best (old timers) who can flash cove with their eyes closed and sleeping with a 12 pack in them to boot. i wasnt going to go into quoting specs from a manual with a home owner just provide some info.

        1. Piffin | Feb 04, 2005 06:59am | #8

          Don't know what specs and manual you mean. I think we just desagree about the stretching thing. I learned early on that you need to have it acclimatized to room temp overnight to stabilize to size first. Too many installers get that small job where they do the whole thing in one day. The roll of vinyl goes in back of the vehicle for a cold ride and colder still carrying it into the hosue where it is given all of twenty minutes to warm before the cutting starts.Or the HO who has the stuff in the cold garage for a week or so and has to cut it out there 'cause his wife doesn't want any mess in the house, and then as it is installed at maybe seventy or eighty degrees friom forty and he is rolling it out and warming all the while - so,it stretchesRather than arguing that point, we should just add to the advice - to let the product acclimatize for 24 hours first before application. 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          1. mightyJIM | Feb 05, 2005 05:57am | #12

            my whole point about the stretching thing (not trying to start anything) was if the h o cuts the piece 3/4" short by the tub i meant you cant stretch the material whatever type of sheetgoods it is like you can with some carpets.

            thats all my point was on the stretching thing. i guess it was a failed attempt at some light humor.

            i agree with you on acclimating the product to the conditions of the house. i figured the h o would hopefully purchase the product from a good flooring store where they have knowledgeable salesman not some 17 year old kid that only knows how to operate the conveyor. plus the bucket of glue says in the instructions to let the product reach the conditions of the house.

          2. Piffin | Feb 06, 2005 03:07am | #15

            I see. I misunderstood the direction of the comment. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        2. User avater
          JeffBuck | Feb 04, 2005 08:37am | #9

          "as for the difference between the terms vynil and linol its an oldschool thing."

           

          Uh ... yeah ... sure ...

          if "old school" is installer code for ... "two totally different materials" ...

          yeah, then ... simply semantics.

          as in ... semantics for .... two totally different materials.

           

          pine ... oak .... same thing right? both wood ....

           

          Jeff

             Buck Construction 

             Artistry in Carpentry

                  Pgh, PA

          1. JamesDuHamel | Feb 04, 2005 09:45am | #10

            http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=53558.34

            This might help some.James DuHamel

            He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!

            "For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36

            http://www.godsfreemusic.com

          2. mightyJIM | Feb 05, 2005 06:06am | #13

            did you leave the wall paper up?

            kinda nice

            nice cut around the supply on the floor and along the tub.

          3. mightyJIM | Feb 05, 2005 05:50am | #11

            why is there always someone that has to make life difficult? any sheet goods(vinyl,linol,etc.)installer that do or have ever worked for us refers to "sheetgoods" as linol. the installation methods are the same for marboleum which is a linol product as they are for any other product such as armstrong medintech,mannington biospec or vinyl corlon. before you have a chance to make this point i will make it. yes there are some products mostly for residential that only have to be perimiter spread. if a h o wants this product i still full spread the floor and roll with a three wheel roller or a 100lb. roller.

            now you have questioned me its my turn. describe to me what heat welding is. i'm not some loud mouth idiot on some computer. i have personally installed over 5000 yds of sheet goods. the company i work for handles most of manningtons repairs. anyone can install a new piece but a real mechanic can make a repair dissapear.

            pine - softwood

            oak - hardwood

            any other questions?

            Edited 2/4/2005 10:04 pm ET by mightyJIM

          4. User avater
            JeffBuck | Feb 05, 2005 07:44am | #14

            I don't care how many floors ya laid.

            Vinyl is not linoleum

            and linoleum is not vinyl.

             

            they are different products .. with different installations.

            Your average home owner could pick up some vinyl from HD and install it themselves.

            Your average home owner couldn't pick up some linoleum and install it themselves.

             

            and you are not doing any customers any favors by saying the terms vinyl and linoleum and interchangable and mean the same thing.

            I'm guessing you are a commercial mechanic that doesn't deal directly with the customer.

            I'd hate to see you sell the "linoleum" job and show up with a van load of vinyl.

             

            and for what it's worth ... if U know how to heat weld U know Piffin was right that the stuff should be acclimated first.

             

            Jeff  Buck Construction 

               Artistry in Carpentry

                    Pgh, PA

          5. Piffin | Feb 06, 2005 03:13am | #16

            I can't say that I know what the differences in installation are between lino and vinyl, but I know they exist. the outfit I buy all my sheet flooring from have two crews that specialize in the lino , and four that stay with the vinyl. They tell me that the lino crews had to take a few days of special schooling, and that it would not be wise for me to attempt it on my own. could be just sales talk, but I listen to advice I get from subs I trust. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  3. User avater
    NickNukeEm | Jan 10, 2005 02:20am | #4

    I cut a template to match the floor footprint to be just about perfect, then place the template on the sheet (ensure the floor is face up; obvious, I know, but...) mark and remove and cut, or you can cut with the template taped to the sheet.  some templates (depending on floor footprint) can be a little complex and require multiple pieces of paper taped to mimic the floor.  I like the tape and trace method as it gives me a great idea of what the floor will look like when installed. 

    As Piffin suggested, remove everything that can be moved, even heaters if possible.  When cut, lay out on the flooring to where you want it.  I then roll back half and apply adhesive (1/16" square notched trowel), lay down the sheet, and roll out that half to eliminate air bubbles.  (I took a trowel to about 3x5", that lets me scoop the adhesive out and also it is small enough to get behind pipes, etc, tho I've also cut them down to about an inch.)  You can rent a heavy roller, but I have several lighter weight rollers that work well, and a laminate J-roller will work for a small footprint.  If you oversized the sheeting, you might have trouble pulling back the flooring; don't let it crease or tear if possible; heavier (thicker) floors are more forgiving.)

    Once one half is done, roll back and do the same for the second.  I usually don't have any problems with placement, sometimes I'll have to 'skid' the floor into place if it's out by much, but oftent he rolling method is pretty relaible.  Often I'll staple the perimeter with NC staples if a baseboard is to be installed just to keep the edges in place while the adhesive cures.

    I've watched a flooring contractor install the stuff and they don't cut templates, just rough size it, lay it down and cut it to fit perfectly afterwards, but I could never get the hang of it.  Anything larger than a bathroom and I sub it out anyway; seams are a call-back waiting to happen if I tried it.

    Good luck.

     

    I never met a tool I didn't like!
  4. ClaysWorld | Jan 10, 2005 02:35am | #5

    First time I would not hesitate to make a pattern, big deal like and extra 1/2 hour or so . Takes a while to get the hang of working with it. Also if you have some off cut, practice making inside corner and out side corners. On outside corners I like to reinforce with duct tape while ruffing it in to prevent a tear.

    I also like to use a framing square to trim/fit. Use and old one and you can force it tight up against finish base or case etc..

    trim long 3 times slow = happy,  trim once fast and short= not to happy

  5. user-45343 | Jan 10, 2005 05:05am | #6

    Wayne, The fitting first with a template works great if you have a lot of obstacles and not a lot of room to work in, or the material is not flexible. I would definitely try to get the toilet out if possible so you don't have a seam around the toilet. I would not worry about the shrinking with sheet vinyl. Linoleum on the other hand is another issue, you definitely have to take shrinking into consideration. I would also use a 3/32 notch trowel for sheet vinyl. Sheet vinyl is not as thick as the vinyl tile which calls for the 1/16 square notch. The glue will also require some open time to gas-off maybe about 10 min or so, but you don't want your glue to flash over so be careful. All glues will tell you about the open time. Also definitely roll the goods immediately after install. The reason, you want 100% transfer of glue to the material, and flatten the ridges of glue the trowel notch will leave. If this is your first time I would install like this. Cut your goods so it rides up the walls about 2" on all walls and let it fall pass the door way to the closet so you can double cut the seam later. Make 2 relief cuts about 5" long opposite each other along the wall (cut net to the wall) to allow the material to fold over, or it will crease and break or tear if the material is cold or just not very flexible. It's generally a good idea to glue the bigger easier area first, this will lock the material in place. Then do your trimming in 2 passes and take your time. Since this a bathroom don't forget to caulk around the tub. Tip, if your door casing has a lot of detail take a flexible saw to the bottom of it and slide the sheet vinyl under it instead of trying to cut to the detail. Flooring is what I do and can't count how many sheet vinyl jobs I've done. You'll probably get tons of ideas and different techniques, just take your time with the cuts and the seam in the closet door, make sure you seal it withe the appropriate seam sealer.

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