we have a project that will require setting a 3x12x16’+ beam. the trouble is it will be done to 12″ piling, in about 6′ of water (we are marine contractors building a dock, but it’s not that different from a deck).
am wondering what is a safe, simple way to hold this beam in place (one on each side of the pile) until it can be positioned, leveled, drilled and bolted. typical is for us is 2×8 beams (pile caps) that we can nail and then drill & bolt.
appreciate the input.
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Replies
Pray for lots and lots of rain ?
;o)
The world's population has more than doubled in the last 40 years
We have enough youth, already.
What we need is a fountain of common sense.
thanks,
am i at the wrong site?
linked over from mike gruetin's site after attending one of his clinics.
just trying to get some help.
Wrong site? No you're at the right place for anything you want to know. Shoot, you're at the right for anything you didn't want to know, too.Somebody will be along with a good solution for you.This reply, and Luka's for that matter, will bump the thread and someone will see it. Sit back pop a cold one and just watch.Oh, you might want to fill out you profile so folks know your location for better advise.Welcome to Breaktime
TFB (Bill)
will the piling be notched or beam bolted to the face of piling? I assume the beam is manufactured, not 2x nailed together.
design engineer did not call for notch, that would have made it easier, but that's what happens when you have to build to someone else's specs.our typical installation like this (smaller, lighter 2x8) is just bolted to the face of the pile. having to put one on each side complicates things a little, with the length & weight & all.
glen
glenram
Is the water frozen? (northern lake?) do it in the winter.. Ocean? how high above the water will you be working?
sorry, i have been advised to fill in the profile info. thot i did that when signing up. we're in florida, mid way down, west coast. have talked with contractors that build boathouses in the winter cuz they can bore a hole in the ice and it's like working on a concrete floor. no such luck.typical dock about 2.5' from MHWL. this one is 3' above MHWL with about 6' to 7' of water at MHWL. (Mean High Water Line, where mean = average or typical or ordinary. typical tide fluctuation is about 2', but spring and neap tides are lower, sometimes by 18" or more.
thanks, glen
Temporarily put cleats on the side of the posts. You could put some lower and then lift it one side at a time up into position. One side at a time is half as much weight, half as many people needed, and a whole lot more control.
I worked on a seawall. We used really big nails to hold the whalers on temporarily before we drilled and through bolted it. Just be carefull not to hit the nails with the drill. Bad things happen.
Safety wise tell everyone that if you loose control of and it starts to go, get out of the way and let it go. I've had guys try to catch stuff and it is just dumb. Try not to be in a position where you are in harms way if you do lose it. It takes more time but is much safer.
Edited 3/7/2008 7:49 pm ET by popawheelie
yup, agree to all points. pretty much looks like that's what we're gonna have to do. still hoping for that one clever over looked solution.by the by... what does popawheelie stand for? my favorite handle is "cunning stunts" (specially if you mix the syllables). use it for mt.bike, mild-free style. would have named a competitive all female paintball team that if i ever got one started.
I used to do a lot of wheelies on bicycles when I was younger. Just goes to prove that you can do anything if you try hard enough and long enough because I'm not that talented.
I'm in the "ustacould" phase of riding. Sustaining more injuries now cuz "I used to be able to jump that, clear that, etc."
Sticker on my helmet reads: Famous last words: "WATCH THIS!"
Popawheelie is onto something, but pilings are round, so you would need to use 2x4 cleats attached vertically.
yeah, clamps are mentioned most, but it worries me to put the crew in harms way with something that unstable.
preciate, glen
Assuming a wooden pile I would make up a setting block.
First piece is thickness of the beam +1/2" thick , maybe 12" long and 4" wide. Add a piece of 3/4" x 4" x 22" plywood to the 4"x 12" side of the block. That will extend the ply 8" above the block. (You want to leave just a little more then 1/4-1/3 of the beam height to be exposed above the setting block)
Predrill for a couple of lags long enough to get a 4" bite into the pile. Lag setting block with plywood leg upright to your pile as close to the right height as you can but keeping it below the final bottom height of the beam, use wedges to adjust beam for final height.
Lagged to the pile it will make a cradle that will keep the beam from tipping over once slipped into it and still allow easy adjustment in height.
Once the height is set bolt the beam in the exposed top 4" of it and then remove the cradle or block and bolt the bottom.
Same style block can be done using clamps if you are creative about it.
thanks, this sounds like the best yet without overkill. like the way it should be fail safe. can raise the beam with the boom on the barge, but just don't like the unstableness of being on the water. it will be a bit of a reach since the barge won't fit between the piles. will probably rig a jig boom to the pile or just come-a-long it up.
glen
will probably rig a jig boom to the pile or just come-a-long it up
I solo-set larger beams by clamping a timber to my posts. Sheave set into the top of the timber. Come-along to a chain around the post, cable up over the sheave, down to the beam.
Slow and sure. The timbers clamped to the posts make over-shooting the posts impossible. I'm dealing with mortise and tenon joints, but it would be even easier to stop the lift at the correct height for a through bolt. You would plan your clamps at just below your expected spot.
For large beams, I use 3 clamps/post. Never a problem, but I don't spend any time under the beam. Last ones were 6x12x18', oak. Used 4" pvc to roll the beams to position, couldn't get a tractor in there.
Rule 1: nobody gets hurt. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
If you have enough piling height to use a come along that would work instead of wedges. Childhood Memory: When I was a kid my Dad and some neighbors were putting docks in using small pilings.
Hand driven using a large (maybe 8" diam. head,42" handle) wooden maul my Dad made. Hot day , beer being passed around as they work and the one very large man took up the maul stood up in the small dinghy they were using as a work platform.
He took a mighty swing, missed and didn't let go of the handle. He went right over the end of th edinghy following the maul towards the bottom of the lagoon. Funny sight for an 8 year old !!
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
My neighbor had a bunch of his buddies over to install a chain link fence in his back yard as a weekend project & put a keg of beer in the middle of the yard.
You can tell by looking at the job that as the day progressed and the keg started to float, the quality fell.
It starts out nice & straight, even spacing, tight wire. By the time they got around to the end, the gate was nailed to the house with 16d nails and the link sagged along the whole side. It was still that way 8 years after.
After the dock pilings were finished my dad ( who loved practical jokes) made up a sign and took the maul and the sign down to a large Cottonwood tree that stood at the edge of the parking area by the docking area and hung both on the tree He named the maul "Earl's Maul" after the guy who swung and missed, and gave the dates of the construction. For years afterwards new comers to the location would ask about the naming of maul and the story would be repeated, poor Earl never escaped that fateful day .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Or if you're handy with a welder you could weld up a couple of brackets based on the same scheme.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
true enough
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
great idea, thanks. can see where the brackets would get plenty of use.
Another approach is to run a 2x at right angles to the beam, reaching over to the adjacent pier.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
thanks, we do this when setting boatlift top beams. scaffold out the lift piling & the 2x4 is set higher to add a bit of security & safety to lugging the 300#+/- beam when setting to the outside piling. Boatlift top beams are easier because they sit on top of the piling after cutting to height. Looks like a combination of scaffolding and brackets are the way to go.
Gutter spikes? Predrill the hole though the 3x12, then pound them into the pile.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
good option, thanks. hoping to find someone who's done it with a really clever method (short of levitating, marine labor not too bright)
glen
The beam itself doesnt seem so heavy. I'm guessing the "problem" lies in your footing. I'd spend five minutes nailing up a temporary place to stand. Then, while standing comfortably, I'd nail up a temporary support to hold the beam. Then, when I comfortably slid the beam onto the temporary support, I'd drill and bolt it...well...comfortably. In my many years, I've seen many guys struggle for hours on jobs that would have been very easy and done in minutes, if they had spent a few minutes building their footing in the right location. Foresight is a wonderful thing. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
That is my general impression of our crews too. They don't want to spend the extra time prepping, feel that scaffolding is too much work, but will take a day to a day & a half to do what my crew of three used to do in 3 hours (including setting & removing the scaffolding).
Edited 3/9/2008 9:39 am ET by glenram
Don't know if this is the right solution, but how about building a tripod out of 4 x 4's at least 12 feet long, and using a come-a-long to lift the beam into place.
We set up two towers of three sections of scaffolding and positioned a couple of 2 x 12 syp planks between the two towers, and then used a come-a-long to lift a 1 3/4" x 16" x 40' long lvl into place. Worked great. We sandwiched three of them together, lifting them one at a time into position, and then bolting them together.
Hope this helps.
Bryan
"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio - just south of the Glass City
yeah, thanks. we actually have a light weight tri-pod we made from 2" aluminum pipe to assist in hand setting piles. it helps to get that much weight up to a manageable height. will have to check the bay bottom for firmness, silt can be a real problem around here.
glen
seeing you still haven't filled in yur profile...
so lets guess...
Tampa area give or take a bit....
a few Q's first...
are yur pilings to be proud of the finish deck???
are they apposing???
can you float yur timber???
is this timber a cross beam or will it be perimeter???
what's the projected lay out of construction members???
the A frame may get stuck or sink... you planning on end lifting or full lift withe the frame???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I guess I don't know where that part of the profile is. When I go to "edit profile", it's still the same info & only allows email, etc. changes. I really want to add some clever & witty quote to each post.but, yeah. standard dock construction, pile on each side, beam between supporting stringers, decking on top. Pile will support guardrail, intermediate 4x4 post between.One of the guys at our mt.bike forum uses the same "What a ride" quote. What do you "ride"?
click on yur name to get to yur profile...
1st thing you need is footing....
stern of a stable boat...
erect a temporary fixed deck at the high water mark......
several framed together 55 gallon drums for a floating platform...
2nd...
tie a large dia rope around the perimeter to huse as a grab or to scoot the boat or floating deck around or to use as a way to easily tie off...
3rd ...
to lift yur timber install HD screw eyes at the top of yur piers and hook a come along to these and yur timber.. winch the timber into place... fasten according to plan...
winch from both ends, center or one pier in from the end...
or timber hitch / choker one end of the come along to the top of the pier instead of the screw eye......
ride a horse once in awhile..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
How far out is the 12" piling?
If close enough build a temp box. What are the joist your going to use? 2x12 ?
Use them to make a 2x12x 20' and place the rim on top of the post and temp ancor.
Stake at terra firma to hold in place.
Walk the beam out on top ot the box and roll off the top with strap/rope/come along and lower to hight and attach.