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Sewer Gas/Basement

cmconrad99 | Posted in General Discussion on March 12, 2009 03:24am

Most likely been answered many times before as sounds common when searching.

I live in Northern Ohio, Lorain/Elyria area west of Cleveland.

I have lived in my home now for 5 years. Have not had any sewer gas issues at all.

I had a basement waterproof job done in October. Dug around perimeter placed an outside drain, cut around interior placed an interior drain and crock.

Installed a bathroom in basement in November.

January started smelling sewer gas smell. Dumped water down floor drains. Worked for an hour to a day.

February had main line to street auged out, two large front yard trees. Line was full, pulled about half a cans worth of roots. Flushed lines, and dumped gallons of water down the floor drains.

The guy that came out mentioned that with the full lines foul water could of back flowed into the traps. Flushing should work, which it hasn’t. Also mentioned that if the basement waterproofers tied into my old clay tile footers, could be an issue. Don’t know have not contacted them yet.

The smell is strongest from a floor drain. I can see water in the drain when using a flashlight. Appears to be murky. There also appears to be a hole above the water, like a T. When I attempt to flush with a hose, or bucket doesn’t appear to affect the water sitting in the drain… Also with the water there, I can feel air, and the odor coming from the drain.

Any suggestions please.

When it rains smell is non existent for a short duration.

Thank you

Chris Conrad

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Replies

  1. rdesigns | Mar 12, 2009 04:39pm | #1

    The floor drain where you see a hole like a T is a likely culprit. That hole is supposed to be plugged with a 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" threaded plug (brass or plastic). It's there as a cleanout opening that bypasses the trap. People often break out the plug in trying to get it loose because it's siezed up so tightly. But what they have done is create a bypass for sewer gas.

    If you have an old cast-iron floor drain, then the threads for the plug will probably be so corroded that you can't screw in a new plug. If so, 2 options: 1) use an expandable plug; 2) from a plumber, borrow a tap of the correct size to run thru the threads and clean them out enough to thread in a new plug.

    1. cmconrad99 | Mar 13, 2009 04:04am | #4

      The floor drain has never been opened in the 5 years I have lived here and this is the first time the odor has come from this area.

      The two times I have had it augered for tree roots I have always had it augered from my clean out from the front of the house, old coal room. The drain that is smelly is in the back of the house laundry area.

      The furnace used to drain into this drain before I installed a pump had routed it over to the sink. I now put some water down the drain about quarterly. Lately I been doing it every other day. Yet there is water at the bottom. I notice a brief relief when water is added.

       

      1. rdesigns | Mar 13, 2009 04:54pm | #8

        If the smell is strongest at the floor drain, and you feel air moving from it, it is the most likely source. Regardless of any other source of the smell, the hole (cleanout opening) in the side of the bowl of the floor drain should still be plugged. The previous owner probably took out the original plug  to snake the drain line.

        Also, you mention that your furnace drained into that floor drain for a time. I assume you mean the condensate from a high-efficiency gas furnace. If the floor drain is cast iron, not plastic, there is a chance that the acidic condensate produced by the furnace has eaten thru the bottom of the floor drain. If so, the water in the trap will seep into the ground and allow sewer gas to get past the trap. So, you could still get sewer gas coming from that floor drain even after you replace the missing cleanout plug.

        Furnace manufacturers sell what they call a "neutralizer kit" to neutralize the acid in the condensate line before it gets to the drain system; it is simply a small pocket with pieces of limestone or some other alkaline mineral that neutralizes the acid--you can do the same by dropping a few marble-size pieces into the trap of the floor drain every year. The trap is really the main concern, since the acidic condensate lays there constantly if there is nothing else that regularly drains into it.

        You can test the soundness of the floor drain by probing the dip of the trap with a long-bladed screwdriver or something similar to see if the bottom surface is solid.

        If you still are having sewer gas odors, a simple test can help you locate the source. Buy a small bottle of peppermint oil from the drug store. Find the lowest cleanout opening in your drain system and pour the entire bottle into the drain and replace the cleanout plug. Make sure no one in the house uses any plumbing during your test. Now, de-pressurize the house by first closing all windows and doors, and then running all exhaust fans in the house, including the dryer since it exhausts 200 CFM, or more. The negative pressure in the house will draw the peppermint odor from any unsealed trap or other opening in the vent system, and its unmisakable odor will lead you to its source.

        1. cmconrad99 | Mar 15, 2009 02:15pm | #9

          You gave me an idea about the negative pressure.

          When they did the basement waterproofing they sold me a Ez-Breathe ventilation system. Which according to their literature is supposed to cause a Slightly negative pressure on the lower level to pull the warm air down in the house, instead of allowing as much to escae from the top. Anyways I had this thing running more and more as the smell increased, I actually can remember the smell was strongest after I let this run most constant.

          I have shut down the ez-breathe for now. Opened a basement window. Smell is now slight, not overpowering as was. Air flow from drain vent is non-existant.

          The Ez-Breathe is in a room outside the room were the drain is. Approximately 15 feet from each other. Door to other room has been removed for rehab.

          Thought maybe the Ez-Breathe caused too much of a negative pressure and maybe caused much of the smell to come from the vent...

          Will close the windows after this weekend. See how things go. Also if anyone knows a reliable plumber to further look into this situation in the Lorain/Elyria Ohio area. Please respond. or if have any other ideas.

           

          I still need to pull the drain cover, not looking forward too, built into floor appears.

          Thank you for help soo far.

           

          Also anyone else have any issues with an Ez-Breathe system. A HVAC friend mentioned that some have been known to blow out,  suck out, the pilot lights on some furnaces or hot water tanks...

          1. DanH | Mar 15, 2009 04:09pm | #10

            Well the fan was obviously exacerbating the smell, but not the root cause. You need to get that drain open.Soak the cover screws with penetrating oil (Liquid Wrench) a couple of times a day for several days. Then get yourself a hand impact driver to pull the screws: http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product?storeId=10101&Pr=p_Product.CATENTRY_ID%3A2007859&productId=2007859&catalogId=10101Sears may carry this locally, or one of your local auto parts places.
            The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith

          2. semipro | Mar 15, 2009 04:37pm | #11

            Hey Dan thanks for that link.  I just happen to need a new one of those.  I've broken mine working on motorcycles.  Its a must-have when working with steel screws in aluminum cases. 

            I knew there was a reason I read this thread.

          3. cmconrad99 | Mar 17, 2009 04:19am | #14

            My floor Drain is cemeted into the floor. Started to break some of the concrete around it. Will finish later this week, check the hole above my water.... the water appears to be very murky, and stinky. Ran water down all adjacent lines to see if any drained through did not notice.

            Think I am also gonna run water down my downspouts just to see if they did happen to tie them in as was suggested by someone who was out that snaked my main line for roots.

          4. DanH | Mar 17, 2009 04:26am | #15

            The cover (grate) of the drain should be removable, with two or three screws. Of course, someone may have run concrete over the edges to conceal the screws.
            The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith

          5. rdesigns | Mar 16, 2009 06:46pm | #12

             

            Put this under the heading of "One More Thing to Worry About":

            If you have a gravity-vent gas water heater in the basement (most gas water heaters are gravity-vent, meaning their vent action is created by the bouyancy of the hot flue gases), then there is potential danger in de-pressurizing the house for any extended period of time--like with your EZ-breathe setup. It doesn't take much of a negative pressure to draw flue gas back down the water heater vent, with the possible risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. Low-level CO poisoning will give symptoms of headaches, dizziness, upset stomach, similar to flu.

            When you test for possible backdrafting of the water heater, do it on a day when the atmospheric pressure is high. That is the most likely time it will not draft properly. Close all windows and doors, and run the EZ-breathe along with other exhaust fans, and then turn up the WH t'stat enough to make it fire the main burner. If it backdrafts, you'll be able to feel warm, moist air flowing out around the draft hood on the top of the heater.

             

            Edited 3/16/2009 11:51 am ET by rdesigns

          6. cmconrad99 | Mar 17, 2009 04:16am | #13

            Thank you going to look into and attempt it.

          7. rdesigns | Mar 17, 2009 04:41am | #16

            DanH is right about the screws that hold down the lid. Save yourself some work and use a hammer to lightly tap all around the perimeter of the lid to dislodge any crud and expose the screw heads. They're usually made of brass. If you break the heads off in trying to loosen them, not to worry. The lid will just sit there in place doing its job of screening any inflow water. Gravity will keep it there, just like the grate on a gutter drain.

    2. Deleted | Aug 17, 2021 06:27pm | #18

      “[Deleted]”

    3. mcree | Aug 17, 2021 06:31pm | #19

      Every time my daughter walked in my house (rental unit), she said it smells in here. My basement always smelled musty, as the floor looks like there is moisture. The landlord was here today and said there are no leaks, but went into the basement with a pitcher of water. He poured it down the hole in my floor. The hole is about 5”, with an about 3” hole next to it. I always see water in the larger hole (This side by side rental duplex was built in 1969. Was that common back then? It wasn’t for a sump pump). He said that it needs water in it or it emits gas. I told him I’ve always seen water in there and wondered about that hole, but always forgot to ask. I rarely see him. Now I just always have to make sure there’s water in it. I thought I solved the problem with bags of Damp Rid (which worked) hanging in my kitchen and living room. I’m going to take those away and see if my daughter starts to complain again.
      Thank you for the info. If we smell it again, I’m going to show this to my landlord.

      1. mcree | Aug 17, 2021 06:33pm | #20

        I forgot to click on Please send emails of any replies.

  2. DanH | Mar 12, 2009 05:46pm | #2

    Could it be that someone augered out the lines from that floor drain and didn't replace the cleanout plug in the side of the drain bowl afterwards?

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
    1. zzzzz | Mar 12, 2009 06:59pm | #3

      It could be a venting issue, did whoever put the bathroom in vent it. What will happen is when the toilet is flushed if it's not vented it will suck he water out of other traps causing the odor.

      1. cmconrad99 | Mar 13, 2009 04:06am | #5

        Bathroom is now placed into the old coal room. Bathroom has not been fully finished yet. But the toilet will have a vent added to the sink drain which drain behind into the same line.

        But it will be vented and completed. Smell is from a back floor drain. Like air pushing up through.

        I think it has to do with the hole above the water, which may/appears to be a T tie in.

        1. DanH | Mar 13, 2009 04:54am | #6

          You mentioned this "hole above water" again. In many floor drains there is a cleanout that is accessed by removing a threaded plug from the side of the drain "bowl". It sounds like your "hole" could be such a cleanout (absent the threaded plug).I'd suggest removing the grate (if possible) and investigating the "hole" -- if you can run a piece of wire through it several inches then it's such a cleanout and needs a plug.
          The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith

        2. kneetwoods | Mar 13, 2009 06:16am | #7

          Like others....I think the hole is worth investigating. Are your drains/vents cast iron?? Maybe you have a hole in a vent pipe behind the wall. Do you have a catch basin?bob

  3. Paul_Z | Mar 18, 2009 08:06pm | #17

    After you find and repair the source of the sewer gas leak, and repair the hole above the water line in the trap, you might want to install a trap primer.  It sound like this drain will only be used if there is a flood.  When a trap does not get periodic use, the water will evaporate out of the trap and allow sewer gases to escape.

    Paul

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