I just made a mess out of a 1″ Marples chisel on my bench grinder. Admittedly, I don’t have a clue as to what I’m doing. Buying new chisels everytime they get dull or trashed isn’t really working into my business plan anymore. Last set I bought was the Marples set and I promised myself I’d learn how to take care of them.
What’s the best way to sharpen chisels? Any old articles you guys can think of? Can I buy a jig somewhere to hold the chisel at the proper angle? Should I use a bench grinder to remove knicks and then finish on a stone? What’s the best stone? Where can a fella go to learn this crap?
Any and all help is appreciated!
Replies
I use timber framing chisels a lot as well as a couple of slicks. I bought a grinding jig several years ago, from Woodcraft Supply, if I recall. Clamps the chisel so you can move it across the grinding wheel evenly to hollow grind it. The nicks must be ground off too, and can be done evenly with the same jig.
Keep your grind wheel dressed and go easy so you don't overheat the chisel.
Then it's hand grinding time. I start with a carborundum stone if i've got a lot to take off, then to a series of Arkansas stones. A friend of mine does a fine job with the Japanese water stones. I don't use a hand grinding jig anymore...kind of got the knack for the angle I like with practice.
I use WD-40 for a honing oil and have for years. It works well and seems to keep the stones free of gumming up. I buy it in the gallon size (about $12); use it for a lot of things (My well-used handyman jack is 16 years old and gets frequent use between idle time in the bed of my truck. WD-40 keeps it working smoothly).
Some will argue about whether to hollow grind or not; I've done it for years and my chisels get a lot of use and it's never failed me...and it saves some effort on the honing do to the reduced surface area.
Open up all the threads in the forum's photo section, and then go to Bob Smalzer's thread, "Rehabilitating old chisels." It was posted just a few days ago.
His last photo shows him shaving hairs with one.
I read through it, and am green with envy.
dieselpig
There are as many ways to sharpen chisels as there are ways to skin a cat, what ever way works for you is the one you should use.
I prefer to hollow grind mine, then hone on Jappaness wet stones. Going from 800 though 4000.
Make sure that the back side of your chisel is as flat as possible, think about it, if you can see swirl marks in the chisel then its not flat enough. If you were looking at the chisel under a micro. then you would see a serrated edge, that's good for cutting your steak, not worth a sh!t for wood though. I emphasize the flatness of the back because most people over look that. It should look like a mirror on the back side.
I'm not sure that I can explain the proper way to sharpen, I could show you much easier! I'll be home this afternoon if you can stop over!(I think your up in the New England area and I'm down here in TX so it may be a bit of a problem)
There has been several ways to sharpen chisels in FWW, I'm not sure which issues but can look.
I would bet that if you go over to Knots and do a search you would probably find more than you care to.
Just find the method that fits your needs and use it.
When I get done honing my chisels I expect them to be sharp enough to shave with, otherwise there just not sharp. And, I have never seen a chisel out of the package that I would consider sharp!
Doug
Nicks ? I rarely get a nick big enough to require a grinding wheel to remove, I used to when I was regularly using a grinding wheel to sharpen my tools and was probably screwing up the temper on the edges. Small nicks I take out by hand with a course bench stone Big nicks, - "NEW TIP WARNING" - our local butcher shop has a knife sharpening service and will cheerfully grind out a nick for a couple of bucks.
The latest fad in sharpening (I guess technically it's all about honing) is to use ultra-fine grit abrasive paper on either a piece of plate glass or a granit set-up tablet. It works just fine, as does the previous method of preference, Japanese water stones. Both can use the same honing jigs. The Lee Valley catalog should have all the necessary toys for either, or a blended method. If you spend the time, you'll be thrilled with how sharp a chisel can really become.
Suggestion:
- buy a book and/or video from L-V or Taunton (I think they had a pretty good one too) or you will never get it right.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Google for "scary sharp". That's the glass and sandpaper method somebody mentioned. Not just for honing. You'd be surprised how quickly you can remove metal with 180 or 220 grit. And never overheats, unless you're Arnold.
Leonard Lee's Book on sharpening is a must have book. Its a taunton book, covers chisels to scissors to saws and screwdrivers.
DOnt use a grinder, youll ruin it before you start... Get some glass, or marble tile and use it as a base for some wet/dry silicon grit sandpaper. Get grits from 250- 1000 or even 2500. Soak down the paper with a little soapy water and get to sharpening, add a bit of water when you can no longer see the paper is wet. Flatten the back (usually you only have to do this once) square up the edge, then sharpen the bevel. Lee valley makes a nice handy little sharpening jig, its worth the 30bucks and its easy to use. start with the 250 to rough in your angle then work up to 1000, or higher.
DONT use a grinder, youll ruin the temper and get a temper yourself. Grinders are for grinding, not sharpening.
You can use a wet wheel to hollow grind, wont loose the temper.
Doug
Thick glass. Marble. Machinists table...
Paugh ! Wasted money.
We're talking chisels here, not critical scientific instruments.
People who talk about scary-sharp, should cut it out with all the big bucks super precision crap.
A piece of countertop material works perfectly as a backer for the sandpaper.
A belt sander, a can of the correct glue, some sandpaper, and some cutoffs from countertops are all you need to get your chisels scary sharp. In a pinch, on the jobsite, just the belt sander will do.
If you can't do the job with these, then you might as well stick your finger up your nose and take your chisels to a sharpening professional.
For the rest of the time that you're given Why walk when you can fly
quittintime
I appreciate everyone's help. As usual, some good advice and multiple methods to achieve the same goal.
For anyone else trying to learn, I found a great step by step demonstration with close-up photos done by Jed Dixon over at Gary Katz's website. Worth a look-see.
If you plan to take out nicks with a grinder ,DO NOT wear gloves . If your fingers start to get slightly warm cool the chisel right away.
"DONT use a grinder, youll ruin the temper and get a temper yourself. Grinders are for grinding, not sharpening."
WmP,
Almost all cutting tools [carbide and steel] are ground. What is key is to match the stone to the alloy you are grinding,...and when appropriate, use a coolant, typically water (but not always)
IMO, if you know what you're doing, you will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, be able to sharpen anything better on a grinder that is properly set up.
FWIW, all these people who use plates of glass and silicone carbide paper, or Japan stones, etc., etc., are really wasting their time. Any edge should only take a minute or two to restore.
Jon
you like tools right...?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/hi/B0000223ZB/qid=1081132029/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-4824339-8572700
now I've never used one, but a guy at work just bought one and sharpened one of my chisels with it....sharpest it's ever been.
on the cheaper end
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004T7PB/qid%3D1081132098/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/104-4824339-8572700
I have one of those Tormek grinders, and think the world of it. I haven't moved it off my workbench since I got it over a year ago.
I actually ENJOY sharpening with it. So does my Son. (Carl) Shortly after we got it, I remember him asking: "Are you SURE there's nothing else in the house we can sharpen?"To conquer the enemy without resorting to war is the most desirable. The highest form of generalship is to conquer the enemy by strategy. [Sun Tzu]
"Are you SURE there's nothing else in the house we can sharpen?" What's your address...I'll send him all my chisels...just make sure you don't send them on to someone else...Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
I think someone could make a living traveling the country and running personal one-on-one sharpening sessions on chisels and chain saw blades. I'd buy. None of the doo-dad gadgets seems to due the trick for me. A tree clearing friend showed me how to use a round file for my chainsaw blades but I'll be d**mned if I can find the right file locally - not sears, a snap-on guy, a specialty Husqy dealer, etc.
Remodeler
Well, there's always Lee Valley - they sell the round files, two different jigs, and diamond rotary burs for sharpening chain-saws.
PS, around here the "rent-all" places all seem to sell the files, but not the jigs..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Baileys is a specialty lumberjack/arborist store. They sell anything chainsaw related.
I think someone could make a living traveling the country and running personal one-on-one sharpening sessions on chisels and chain saw blades.
Sign me up for the chainsaw class. I'm somehow stupid about sharpening chainsaws. Knives, chisels, no problem - I can even get a usable chisel edge on a grinder if I have to freehand. But chainsaws - I've got the tools but apparently not the talent.
There's also some mysticism about it I don't understand. The guy at the equipment shop always gives me a hard time when I bring in chains to be sharpened - "you really can do this yourself". So I ask him to show me (again) and he takes two round files and faster than the eye can see says, "just hit the edge like this (bruce-lee sharpening)." And that's all he'll give. He doesn't like anybody who's not a lumberjack.
I just made a mess out of a 1" Marples chisel on my bench grinder.........What's the best way to sharpen chisels?
Diesel,
Here are some pics of the set-up I made to sharpen chisels at home. It is a grinder dedicated to only chisels. Basically a block of wood at a fixed angle to a bench grinder attached to a piece of plywood. Works really well. I use a wide wheel so it hangs past the guard a tad, to allow dressing the back side of the chisel.
Also, it is VERY IMPORTANT indicate your grinding wheels in. Too many people just bolt them in,
Jon
Edited 4/5/2004 11:21 am ET by WorkshopJon
Edited 4/5/2004 11:22 am ET by WorkshopJon
"Also, it is VERY IMPORTANT indicate your grinding wheels in. Too many people just bolt them in,"
What do you mean by "indicate"?
Edit to add: I use a grinder for the rough stuff, then place the chisel in a honing fixture (or is it a jig?) and work my way through the sandpaper on glass method. I can move through the grits pretty quickly, especially if I'm just touching up a chisel with no nicks.
Jon Blakemore
Edited 4/5/2004 1:01 pm ET by Jon Blakemore
"What do you mean by "indicate"?
Jon,
To put a dial indicater to the side of the wheel and tap lightly with a hammer on the side of the stone prior to the final torquing of the lock nut to minimize runout and insure a true running stone.
Jon
Jon,
Forgot to add this. Wife walked in and.....lost track of what I was doing.
Jon
Jon, No offense here but, In over 20 yrs. of woodworking...I NEVER would dream of "dressing" the back of any chisel,plane iron on a grinder..unless it's a surface grinder and then only for removeing the ruffest of ruff stuff.
A new chisel may take some work to remove the factory initial grind..but I do take pains to get the backs as polished and FLAT as possible (japanese chisels are an exception, they may be tweaked with a hammer to get back to a flat EDGE)..I start with a diamond hone to get some of the deeper grind swirls out and proceed with ever is open or laying around...I have done SC sandpaper on my jointer bed, water stones, Hard and soft ark oil stones, india (carborundum) stones and ceramic..
latly, I just have to do a few swipes with a small diamond hone and strop on my boot or palm..some of my chisels havetaken YEARS to get as polished as I like on the back side..
different strokes and all that..yes I have resorted to a beltsander many times as well, the trick is to have the belt scratches perp to the edge and do the WHOLE length of the blade until the handle is in the way.
nice jig..I use my index finger as a depth guide and eyeball the bevel...but I have been doing that way a long time, too set to change.<G>
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"Jon, No offense here but, In over 20 yrs. of woodworking...I NEVER would dream of "dressing" the back of any chisel,plane iron on a grinder..unless it's a surface grinder and then only for removing the ruffest of ruff stuff."
Sphere,
It's a common practice with pattern makers, and is done to remove the flash and burr on the flat side of the chisel. I guess for someone that doesn't have the feel for it, it's probably a bad idea. A surface grinder would remove way more material, as their range of tolerance is only .0001"
Jon
It's all well and good to true up your chisels on a wheel the first time it's sharpened, but don't you still have to spend nearly as much time on the hand honing to get the chisel sharp enough to use ? And 99.9% of the time you'd never chip a chisel badly enough to require a regrind.
And why would you want to ruin a good chisel by putting the back to a grind-stone ?.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
"And why would you want to ruin a good chisel by putting the back to a grind-stone ?"
Phill,
With the proper grit stone, and a properly set up grinder, you wouldn't ruin it, if you know what you're doing.
Jon
Edited 4/5/2004 7:56 pm ET by WorkshopJon
Two strokes on the strope and the back is perfect.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
"Two strokes on the strope and the back is perfect"
Phill,
My point was that in the real world, where time is money, the guy's who have the talent do it the way I said. Think about it. Grinder is still running, chisel is in you hand right by the wheel, light touch on the backside and your done.
I've seen chisels that have seen decades of nearly daily use sharpened the way I describe and have held up quite well. Now if you have a poorly set-up grinder, the wrong stones, and no "feel" in your hands, sure go the sandpaper on glass, or hand honing method.
Jon
But you still have to hone the chisel after the grind-stone or it's not sharp enough..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Phill,
I never "hone" my chisels, I can guarantee to you that they are razor sharp.
Think about it. Virtually all perishable cutting tools used in manufacturing are machine ground, rotary ones typically on a 5-axis CNC grinder. There is no reason, using the proper stone on a properly set-up grinder you can't replicate that by hand if you're good.
Jon
>> There is no reason ... you can't replicate that by hand if you're good.
I can think of one reason. It doesn't matter how good you are, you can't match the rigidity of the work holder in an industrial grinder setup. Any tool you hold in your hand or hold with hand pressure against a grinder table or a tool rest is going to move around.
1) Machine tools are no-where near as sharp as hand-tools
2) The grinding machines and wheels for HSS tooling are very expensive, you cannot duplicate this by hand (BTW, I've sharpened machine tools, it is very rare to find one with a knife or chisel edge; it's more like the edge of a block).
3) Thin-edge tools in commercial settings are hand-sharpened and/or hand-honed all the time. Have you never seen a barber stropping a razor or a butcher whetting a knife ? Ever been to a cabinet shop ? Go watch the timber-framers some day, you could shave with their slicks.
So, I guess we just agree to disagree over this.
.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Edited 4/6/2004 5:20 pm ET by Phill Giles
"1) Machine tools are no-where near as sharp as hand-tools"
Phill,
On that one you are dead wrong, many are in fact sharper.
"The grinding machines and wheels for HSS tooling are very expensive, you cannot duplicate this by hand (BTW, I've sharpened machine tools, it is very rare to find one with a knife or chisel edge; it's more like the edge of a block)."
Doing stuff like that is my day job, and they are not that pricey at all except for diamonds @ ~$100 for a small wheel, And you wouldn't want to use one on HSS anyway.
"Thin-edge tools in commercial settings are hand-sharpened and/or hand-honed all the time."
I agree with you on that one, but again, with the proper tools and technique, quicker the way I do it with similar results.
Jon
The simple truth of sharpening, 90% of us or more dont have the time to learn how to hand grind tools. People here are in the trades, not professional machinists. Most of us here will use Drill doctors, sandpaper, beltgrinders, tormeks or other easier methods. I dont have thousands of dollars for proper grinding wheels, grinders, CNC machines, surface grinders etc.
Sharpening by hand has the fastest learning curve and cheapest setup. The equipment needed, and time needed just to setup a grinding station on-site is silly. By the time i could break out the grinder, dress the wheel, check for runout and calibrate i could have sharpened all my chisels and probably even a few plane irons to match.
If many of us here wanted machine shop accuracy we;d probably drop them off with the sawblades for sharpening.
"The equipment needed, and time needed just to setup a grinding station on-site is silly."
WmP,
Since apparently we're all still just having fun here.......That dedicated grinding station I put together requires no set-up at all, other than plugging in the cord, is completely portable. And once properly set-up, will positively not go out of adjustment since the grind angle is fixed (and the bed surface is long, and will get your tool good enough to use in 30 seconds to 2 minutes if your chisel is that bad.
Now, will it be as good an edge as someone's, who has spent many, many minutes (hours?) hand honing? probably not, but we are (well most of us) on the clock. Get it done, go back to work.
Jon
Jon,
Phill mentioned my point. Can you shave your arm hairs with your method? If so, then I will probably attempt your method. So, can you trim your hair without drawing blood?
Jon Blakemore
"Can you shave your arm hairs with your method?"
Jon,
Sure can. See attached pics. Just for $hits and giggles, I measured the shavings and they were 0.0003" and that was hard maple. took me about 30 seconds on a grinder to put that edge on.
Jon
Thanks for posting the pictures. The verdict is clear. Your chisel is not sharp. Sharp chisels don't make raggedy a$$, skanky shavings like that.
"Sharp chisels don't make raggedy a$$, skanky shavings like that."
Dunc,
They are only 0.0003" thick. That's 1/10 the thickness of a piece of paper. What the heck are you guys looking for?
Jon
I don't doubt that your technique will quickly get your chisels as sharp as you need them to be. For you, maybe it would be a waste of time to get them any sharper, although I think you might be surprised at how much longer they'd stay sharp if you got them really sharp.
When my chisels are sharp, it takes noticeably less effort to push them through the wood. I have better control of the thickness of the shaving. The shavings are closer to being continuous in both length and width, like the shavings from a sharp plane. The workpiece doesn't show little ridges from rough spots on the edge. I can pare end grain on soft woods like pine or coarse grain douglas fir without crushing the early wood. When I'm paring end grain into a corner, like on the end of a hinge mortise, I don't have to push as hard to get the fibers in the corner cut off.
One of the best features of Leonard Lee's book, The Complete Guide to Sharpening, is the collection of closeup photos of cutting edges sharpened with various abrasives to various degrees of fineness. The pictures in the book and the pictures you just posted both tell me that your technique won't get a chisel as sharp as I can get it with sandpaper and waterstones and chrome oxide polishing compound. And I can tell the difference when I'm using the chisel.
Another thing I noticed was that your technique appears to leave the edge somewhat curved. Again, that might be OK for your application, but there are other applications where I would prefer a straight, square edge.
I think you two should exchange chisels to see what each really has going.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
Oh fine. Why didn't suggest that when he was arguing with Phill?
First I'd have to find my chisels, then my sharpening stuff. Then I'd have to clear a work space in the kitchen, because there's no water for the waterstones in the shop. Actually there's no cleared work space in the shop, either. Actually, I'm not sure I can even get to my bench.
Nah, I'm going to have to pass this time.
This is good because it allows me to remain perfectly confident that I'm right.
Thank you..you are right.
If that's what a "pattern maker" calls sharpening, I am glad I shied away from that oppertunity when I had the chance.
Many of my chisels have not seen a grinder for a very long time..and with a moments notice and my haphazard shop setting at the moment..I can CLEANLY shave my forearm..no blood, just stubble a day later that my wife always comments on.." you been sharpening again,I can tell" I hear that alot...
I refuse to get the flat of an iron or chisel ever against a grinder. I like to see it mirror smooth.
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Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
"I refuse to get the flat of an iron or chisel ever against a grinder. I like to see it mirror smooth."
Sphere,
Apparently, to you, time is not money. We were after all talking about chisels that retail for about $8.00 a piece. If you are spending more than a minute sharpening them......perhaps it's time to stop spending so much time here.
If I can get ten years of less than paper thin cuts out of an $8.00 chisel, works for me. Apparently you have a better more cost effective way. TELL US!!!!!!!
Jon
Jon
Jon,
while I used to have spent enough time w/ edged tools on my dad's shop grinder to have a good touch for doing it free hand on a motorized grinder, I don't anymore. I started out using Scary-Sharp to flatten and smooth all the machining marks from the backs and bevels of my $40, 7-chisel set of Stanley's from Lowes. And it has taken *forever*. They are, however, mirror smooth. For my home hobbyist piddling, that is more than sufficient, but right about how I want them.
I'd say there isn't anyting wrong w/ hollow grinding, but I think if it were me I'd still Scary-Sharp the micro-bevel if you intend to use one. A minute or two on some paper set up on some MDF whenever the chisels start to get dull should work fine.
If you are happy w/ the sharpness of your chisels w/ just freehanding on a grinder, more power to ya. Mine would look like someone was trying to serrate them ;)
Monte
I believe I have posted this method..I carry a 1x3 in. dia. hone in my wallet..30 seconds of that at most, with a dollop of spit..a quick swipe or two along the side of whatever is laced to foot at the time..a few more across the heel of my hand...and shave away.
I have some chisels that never leave the shop, and some that never leave a tool pouch or site box..mostly they all get the same treatments AFTER spending some time un-factory-ing them..i.e, removing the grinding marks, that keep the backs from being TRULY polished enough to leave a glass smooth cut across end grain soft wood..
I don't employ your techniques because we are not after the same results..as I said in another post, I have beltsanded on site, those are not the same chisels I would reach for when doing dovetails in cabinetry, or paring in lutherie..differnt tools for different applications..
FWIW..time is money to me, I also have in my collection of old stuff, a Winchester Arms, New Haven..Conn. 3/8th paring chisel made from gun steel..not an "8.00" chisel..so with that one I may treat it to a proper waterstone or ceramic polishing..that is "Time" well "Spent"..
If you ground the back of a quality Japanese chisel like you demonstrated, in Japan they would hand you a sword for your own Hari-kari..it's just not done to those tools..I studied in Tokyo and respect the methods and yes ,Zen of their ways..that's all.
As someone else said here..we agree to disagree..about this particular subject. Not being disrespectful, just enlightened differently.
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Looks good, but the true test of a chisel's sharpness is to cut pine end grain. If it leaves a shiny smooth cut, then it's sharp. If it tears and rips, then back to the hone.
Pete Duffy, Handyman
You guys spend almost as much time arguing about sharpening as you do sharpening!!!
:)Mr T
Happiness is a cold wet nose
Life is is never to busy to stop and pet the Doggies!!
sharpening our sharpening argueing skills..
grinders are for lawn mower blades..lol
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Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Sphere,
"grinders are for lawn mower blades"
Do you honestly think that planer and jointer blades are sharpened by hand honing? Clearly we live in different worlds.
"If that's what a "pattern maker" calls sharpening, I am glad I shied away from that oppertunity when I had the chance."
BTW, on average, good wood patternmakers earn double to triple what woodworkers earn in this part of the country 'cause they have such refined skills.
We work to tolerances of +/- 0.002" in wood. Using my method and set-up, a chisel will last 10 years, can be sharpened the way I described in 30 seconds, and cut shavings 0.0003" thick.
Clearly you imply work to closer standards than me.
BTW, Anything you helped to build ever get launched into space?
Jon
Edited 4/7/2004 8:58 am ET by WorkshopJon
Ok Jon..gloves off.
I usually advise against getting into a pissing contest with a skunk..
MY planer knives are ground, but not freehand..they are in a fixture. They also do not use a home shop grinding wheel. They ALSO DO NOT GRIND THE BACK..that is my sharpener..he's been at it only 60 yrs.
I can easily touch up between grindings my self by HONING..the bevel and back..I check for straight with a Starrett straight edge or a surface plate.
.BTW, on average, good wood patternmakers earn double to triple what woodworkers earn in this part of the country 'cause they have such refined skills
that's ok by me..
We work to tolerances of +/- 0.002" in wood. Using my method and set-up, a chisel will last 10 years, can be sharpened the way I described in 30 seconds, and cut shavings 0.0003" thick
I do too..a .009 guitar string at pitch is a STRAIGHT LINE...002 is average for setting bridges and saddles..not bad so far. I've had all of my chisels for over 20 yrs..whats yer point? I don't care how thick or thin the shaving is, I don't sell shavings, I sell the work. The surface that the shaving was a part of, is glass smooth..the chip load is immaterial.unless a router needs to clear the chips for heat dissapation..
Clearly you imply work to closer standards than me.
No, but my grammer is a helluva lot better..<G> My standards are to achive the smoothest ( with out large scratches) arris at the cutting edge, have enough meat behind it so as to not "roll" and dull itself under force, and not be too blunt to preclude a deep penetrating "stopping" cut..say at the end of a mortice..different bevels for different applications..I don't use just one sharpening angle on all of my irons and blades..they vary, a paring chisel for soft wood is a flatter angle than a heavy chopping chisel..just common sense. Look at any chip carving chisel...mirrror smooth..why's that? Less friction, cleaner surface left behind..the "CHIP" removed may be A 1/4" THICK..not 3 tentousandths..
Let's see did anything I helped build get launched into space...?
Yup..all the time..the CNC I ran had a Carter Vacuum Pod let go, the whole thing it was cutting got launched into space..c'mon now..does that make you think other people are inferior? Has anything you ever helped build provide music for hunderds of churchgoers every Sunday..I built PipeOrgans too..not new electric solid state..tracker organs, the old style..
What we have here is a basic approach by you, to sell me that your way is somehow better..and I am telling you that if the arris is ragged from a grinder with the back all scratched to hell..especially if the grinding grooves are not perpendicular to the egde...the optimun cut surface will suffer..
Post this in Knots and watch the fire works..you know as well as I do, that you know better than to eschew honing totally..I KNOW Patternmakers...retired but that was what they did..for the BIG war as they call it..they hone.
Respectfully, Duane
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Ok Jon..gloves off............
..whats yer point?
Sphere,
Referring to the originator of this thread.
41880.1
"I just made a mess out of a 1" Marples chisel on my bench grinder. Admittedly, I don't have a clue as to what I'm doing. Buying new chisels everytime they get dull or trashed isn't really working into my business plan anymore. Last set I bought was the Marples set and I promised myself I'd learn how to take care of them."
That an $8.00 Marples chisel can be effectively be resharpened on a properly set-up $50.00 dedicated grinder with the right stone, adjustment, and technique, to better than it was purchased standards.
That's all.
Sorry if I got you upset.
Jon
upset? nah..friendly sparring...valid points from both perspectives..
Hey, let's discuss scrapers..hook on both edges? or one?
or lathe tools...is scraper use acceptable, or only tools that make shearing cuts?..(clairfy..wood lathe tools)
Have fun, it's been real.
(actually, I like glass for scraping.)
later
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Uuuhhhhhh,
Is it safe to come out now?
Been ducking the punches for a couple of days now. Did I mention that I wrecked the edge on my 1" Marples by using it to split baseboard that was set 1 1/2" into tile/old flooring? Hit a nail.
Just want to get an edge on these things again. Maybe mortise for a hinge or two. That's about as refined as my chiseling skills are.
It amazes me. I knew that I didn't know anything about sharpening chisels. But I had no idea HOW MUCH I didn't know about sharpening chisels.......
I appreciate everyone's efforts. Think I'll drop my chisels off with my blades on Friday. At my sharpening service. I'll let him figure it out. When I get 'em back I'll give it a shot with the glass and paper.....see if I can get those backs flat for a start.
Much obliged gang :)
Ah...they're just having fun, and because they are so am I. Read the book on sharpening, I have it and it's a great reference. I found Japanese stones to sharpen with over 15 years ago and have stuck with them, I have a few diamond stones as well. The point is is to practice practice practice. I do the same thing as Sphere by carrying a little diamond card around, zip zop and away I go. I too have day after stubble.
Hey Dies...most people PAY fer the education ya just got..<G>
The boxwood handle marples are a bit better steel alloy than the Blue Chip..with the blue handles..BTDT.
play with them, you can do it. A flat back is a happy back..thats what we ranted over.
have fun
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Hey Dies...most people PAY fer the education ya just got..<G>
Don't get me wrong Sphere.....I do appreciate the help. Left to my own devices I'm a disaster!
I think one of the best things you can do to improve your grinding is to throw away those grey wheels and get either the white or pink wheels for your grinder. They are designed for sharpening steel and wear more quickly, but don't load up so there's a MUCH less chance of burning your tool. Its still a good idea to use a light touch, but they make grinding much less stressful.
After grinding, just hone the chisel by whatever means you prefer. I happen to like waterstones because its easy to clean up after sharpening and they cut pretty quickly, but ( as you have found out) there are a number of methods for honing.
Bottom line is, whatever works for you is the right technique.
"I think one of the best things you can do to improve your grinding is to throw away those grey wheels and get either the white or pink wheels for your grinder."
Shep,
I completely agree, those grey stones have no place near a chisel, though on the other hand, the white ones wear out pretty fast.
The one I run is pink/brown fine grit aluminum oxide. (hard to tell from the pics) The set-up I run cost less than $50. and has been working great for close to 7 years with minimal adjustment. (Just an occasional truing of the stone with a diamond.
Jon
Don't grind the chisels, unless you're really good at it and have a light touch. Grinding is only the forst step anyway, and only needs to be done when the edge is really chewed up.
I like the glass/sandpaper approach. Nothing is cheaper or flatter.
First flatten the back and polish to a mirror finish by working up through the grits. All the sharpening in the world will be a waste of sweat without a flat back
Use a honing guide ($10-15) to keep a consistent edge when honing the bevel.
Get a piece of glass and spray mount some strips of 150, 180, 220, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1200, grit sandpapers (can go to 2400 grit for really sharp).
Set the honing guide to the proper angle, and work through the grits. Use Aluminum oxide for the coarser grits and silicon carbide wet-or-dry for the 320 & higher grits. Use water or WD40 for lubricant. The first grit takes the longest. After that, successive grits just take out the scratched from previous grits.
I have a set of Marples that are razor sharp, which was very helpful when I ran the 3/4" chisel through my wrist, leaving a 3" long gash. Sliced CLEANLY through the median nerve, and CLEANLY nicked 3 tendons. The surgeon had an easy time fixing that, instead of the usual carpenter's chisels that resemble a rusty coffee can lid.
Let me know if you want to see a picture!
Pete Duffy, Handyman
Try this one, pig.
http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp/index.html
As well, here's another link.
http://www.planemaker.com/articles/grinding2.html
These two articles summarise the way in which I was trained.
I'm a trade cabinetmaker. We hone. (link 1)
For carpentry, the chippies here are happy with an edge off a bench grinder. (link 2)
Horses for courses.
Cheers,
eddie