i have been using hole saws in hard woods lately,
i get them stuck and it is slow cuting, even with
a clearence hole for sawdust.
could i improve performance by grinding away every other
tooth or so?
espalier
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Replies
Grinding away alternating teeth. hmm interesting idea, to leave more room for sawdust to be flushed... experiment on a cheaper hole saw. before I'd do that though, try keeping the saw perpendicular to the stock, and pull out often to remove chips...
Title said sharpening hole saws, are you using the better quality bi-metal types? they stay sharp longer.
BTW welcome to BT. There was (still is?) a very expensive french restaurant in Boston called L'Espalier, are you related :-)
put dry lubricant on the saw..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
i have been using lenox saws,
in a drill press.no relation, in western mass thuogh
Lenox HS's have a slightly hooked tooth...
it isn't the tooth set it's the aggresive cutting action that needs to be addressed...
lube the saw, more horse power and a light touch....
the more horse power item makes the need for clamping all the more important............
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
use a slower speed too..
what size holes are you cutting???
no relation, in western mass thuogh
Huh???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Does your mandrel have drive pins? What material are you cutting through? I was thinking about getting a good set of hole saws. These two in particular are raved about although they are quite pricy. I'll probably hold off for a while. I am glad I started with a cheap one as I cut through exterior shelthing and then into concrete stucco... didn't really think about it until I had worn the hole saw down a fair amount... the place where I bought the hole saw has a trade in deal where you bring in the old dull one and they give you 1/2 off or something on the new one... Might want to look into that before you go removing the teeth.Lenox Accessories 11 Piece ONE TOOTH¯ Rough Wood Hole Cutter Kit - 25477
http://www.entirelyhardware.com/sku76615.html
Depth 2"
Width 5"
$534.50 USDHigh Performance Hole Cutter Kits
http://www.prosoftimaging.com/x305.html
Cutting diameter: 1 7/8" (48mm) - 12" (305mm)
Depth of cut: 3/16" (5mm) - 2" (50mm)
$129.95 USD
i know, dumb question, have you had them sharpened???
dull ones have a tendicy to rub and burn...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
1. cuting holes in 4/4 cherry and 7/4 cherry
2. using drill press at slowest speed
3. might be dull, but
4. are new, lenox saws. but
bought at HD
5. is lenox a good hole saw brand?
6. sorry for the fragments: i hate typing
7. sharpend? where?
love to have them sharpened.thankyou to all
espalier
1. cuting holes in 4/4 cherry and 7/4 cherry
what size hole..?
2. using drill press at slowest speed
what HP?
3. might be dull, but
doubt it...
4. are new, lenox saws. but bought at HD
no matter...
5. is lenox a good hole saw brand?
yup..
6. sorry for the fragments: i hate typing
me too..
7. sharpend? where? love to have them sharpened.
do they really need it...
any competent blade sharing service..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
right, i'll respond to most of the relevant points eventually.1. 1.5" and 1.75"2. i suspect the 1/3 rating is generousalso3. i have not been using the pins i bought some extra arbors
and run the saw hard against the washer to try to
eliminate the vibration.4. somehow i never think to use the stuff,
but there is a stick of oldham cut-ease next to my computer.
i should store it somewhere closer to the drillpress.
right, i'll respond to most of the relevant points eventually.
take yur time this place isn't going anywhere's soon.. least I hope not..
1. 1.5" and 1.75"
use a fostner drill bits... at moderate to quick speed..
easier, cleaner and a bunch less work... drill a bit with firm pressure... let up to clear the chips / shavings... repeat often...
Frued makes decent ones... they have that size in carbide.. HSS would be okay but expect to resharp.. sharpening instructions included with the bits..
Bosch has them too.. their M2 steel are very good.. may take some looking to find them...
get them at the big boxes and better wood working supply stores everywhere..
2. i suspect the 1/3 rating is generous
my guess is not enough attitude to push those hole saws..
this may be the (w)hole problem...
3. i have not been using the pins i bought some extra arbors and run the saw hard against the washer to try to eliminate the vibration.
if they are Lenox arbors you've run past the arbor's shank screw and either not engageing it or not enough.. back the saw off and use the pins.. if you are vibrating the chances are the saw isn't tracking straight and adding to the binding problem..
4. somehow i never think to use the stuff, but there is a stick of oldham cut-ease next to my computer. i should store it somewhere closer to the drillpress.
if that is a modified wax like I think it is.. come time to stain or what ever it is yur gonna do you may become a very unhappy camper...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
i started with the hole saws because i guessed(mistakenly)
it would take less power to turn than a forstner.some consideration also went to living
about the same distance from starrett and lennox
about 30 miles , so it is not just buying u.s. but buying from
companies that employ neighbors.
i went to starrett's factory 2nds sale last week.
wish i had reason to buy more.espalier
i started with the hole saws because i guessed(mistakenly) it would take less power to turn than a forstner.
changing to fostners now???
some consideration also went to living about the same distance from starrett and lennox about 30 miles , so it is not just buying u.s. but buying from companies that employ neighbors.
good attitude..
you live that close to either..
talk about envy..i went to starrett's factory 2nds sale last week. wish i had reason to buy more.
got that covered...
As any woodworker/carpenter/construction guy knows. You can't use "do I need it?" as a criteria for buying a new tool. Whether or not you'll even ever use it is besides the point! For all you confused people out there, I will give you the listed reasons for buying a new tool straight from "The Man Bible" Chapter 35 Section 72 Subsection D Paragraph 23 states:
You simply buy a new tool because:
a) It's there
b) You can
I hope this has cleared up any questions any of you may have for buying new tools,
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
You been counseling Diesel?
no .. can't...
I'm not a licensed accredited practicing member of the psychiatric community..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
for information purposes only, american saw in e longmeadow the manufacturer of lenox line of blades is now making blades,, saws etc for irwin, just painted a different color. all this happened since their buyout by neull rubbermaid
Ditto IMERC's recommendation of carbide-tipped Forstner bits. The steel ones work well, but you don't have to be as careful with heat on the carbide ones. Carbide for sure if you are drilling 100's of holes. They cut way faster and smoother in a drill press than a holesaw of that same diameter.Bill
I second your motion for the forstner bits... That's what I'd do.
Much easier to work with than hole saws.
http://www.petedraganic.com/
You should get them professionally sharpened and you might try this stuff...
http://www.lenoxsaw.com/wfluids.htm
Drill a 3/16 hole on the cut line all the way through. This gives somewhere for the saw dust to go.
USAnigel has the right answer. Just be sure to drill the hole on the inside edge of the cut. Besides providing an exhaust for the sawdust, it also makes it easier to remove the plug when you are through. Good luck!
Definitely try a forstner bit, but go slow in hardwoods or you might fry the outer portion from overheating.
The problem with holesaws in the drillpress or any verticle cutting application is removing the sawdust to let the teeth get a good cut. Removing the holesaw often helps, but it's hard to beat having a constant shot of compressed air. Messy.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
up here in canadaworld i am using forstner bits of two varieties a smooth outside diameter for cleanest work and a serrated outside for more rough. i use a company called dimar (german) their " famag bormax" line is the best. or on the other hand if you want to keep it local, sharpen those hole saws yourself. its not hard i think a reference would be leonard lee's "sharpening" book from lee valley tools. good luck and i am very jealous of your proximity to starrett tools. across the border here they are pricey and the selection is slim. oh yeah greenlee hole saws: best set on the teeth, and longest lasting for me.(hardwood, softwood, mdf and other fakewoods)
I've had good results with this bit of guidance:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32991&cat=1,46096,46109&ap=2
I can't remember if he deals directly with hole saws, but the principles of shaping wood cutting teeth are explained.
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
Edited 11/4/2006 12:55 am by Scott
That's probably a hardened, bi-metal tool - I'll guess that resharpen isn't part of its repertoire
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
espalier,
I am building a timberframe and using hardwoods like white oak and black walnut. for smaller holes I always start out with a Forsner bit make a tiny cut just enough so that I don't tear out the wood with the self feeding auger. (I buy 'em from Milwaukee, they come up to 2 5/16ths)
above that I use a regular hole saw only I only drill about an inch at a time and then attack the hole with self feeding augers they are like forsner bits in that you can overlap the holes without a problem so it's quick to remove most of the waste..
Lenox has a new hole saw where the "Plug" doesn't get stuck and if I had a lot of holes left to do that's what I'd use.. It's kinda like a one tooth saw only round..
I've had great luck sharpening hole saws with a coarse diamond file. A black sharpie helps to darken the teeth to show file contact. The first few are awkward, but after that it becomes second nature.
If you have too much time on your hands even a new holesaw will cut much better with a minor touchup. If you have a large number of difficult cuts (like chewing through 30 I joist webs with a 6") keeping the teeth as sharp as possible really helps.
I've also been known to wipe a bit of wax inside the holesaw to make removing the wood ring easier.
View Image
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Most of my hole saw uses are pretty crude. Frequently used to cut thin metal. If one is familiar with basic sharpening principles I agree sharpening is easy. I just use a bench grinder. Admittedly it isn't as good as new but it probably quadruples the life of the saw. I recommend anyone with a trashed holesaw read up on sharpening principles and go at it with a grinder or, as you recommend, a diamond file.You don't have anything to lose. For me it isn't a cost cutting measure, it is more to save a trip to the hardware store when my holesaw stops cutting efficiently.Karl
Once you have the sharpening method down how long does it take you to sharpen a hole saw?
20 minuets..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
lenox makes some fine fostner bits..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
No more than five minutes to sharpen even a 4" holsaw when you have it off the mandrel and are standing in front of the grinder.A basic knowledge of the principles of sharpening drill bits and chainsaw chains seems to cover most of the relevant aspects of sharpening a holsaw (from my somewhat crude, utiitarian approach)Like I said before, start with a trashed holsaw and practice. You have nothing to lose if it was garbage when you started.I would be surprised if I got more than four sharpenings from a holsaw before it was beyond sharpening.The most difficult part for me is getting all the teeth the same height. I get them close to the same height at best. Give it a tryKarl
I think my problem is knowing when I've succeeded in sharpening it. If I drill though a stud how long should it take to get through? Should the hole saw cause the wood to scortch? I used a hole saw to put a handle into a new door and it scortched the inside of the hole. The hole saw was brand new. I have been leary about setting the sawdust on fire within a wall while using a holesaw or recipricating blade, is there any danger of that happening? I have used HSS spade bits to drill holes though very old double plates that were at the petrified stage of their life and the spade bit would get hot enough that pulling it out and putting it into a cup of water would emmit the cooling sound. I switched to a self feeding auger and a 1/2" right angle milwaukee drill after that - which once stared worked magic on those petrified double plates. The hole saws I still seem to have the same issue where they heat up a lot and don't go through wood like butter. I've bought a set of forstner bits but they don't go up in size very far - or at least the set I bought don't.
Learner,
I think part of the problem might be an expectation that the holsaw will make rapid progress through a 2x. I only use a holsaw to drill holes where I can't tolerate splintering, I don't have the right size auger bit (but do have the right size holsaw), or the material is too hard to drill with an auger.I find holsaw's painfully slow but there are a lot of tasks where they are better suited than other alternatives and they are cheap (bi metal ones at least are cheap).I consider a holsaw dull when it just won't cut anymore. I fully expect them to get hot even brand new.Good Luck,
Karl
Burning when caused using a new saw is sometimes due to the drill being tilted away from perpendicular, causing the side/body of the hole saw to rub and overheat.
I gave up on bi-metal blades 'bout 10 years ago and haven't had to buy a holesaw since ( once i got my set filled out as needed) carbide tipped wood and metal cutting holesaws can be found. Look in a catalog that sells stuff for racecars, you''ll find the co. (s) that sell carbide tipped blades. not cheap but as near permanent as I've found. Jim (these things love concrete-fiber siding))
Would you cut through brick or stucco with them? Do they size up to 4"?
There is an Australian company called Sutton Tools that makes a single tooth carbide tooth hole saw that in wood and manufactured board is excellent I haVE NO Idea if this is exported or you may have your own version most bi metal hole saws are designed for drilling metal.In wood this one tooth saw works very well all depending on your tolerances required.
Regards from Melbourne OZ
You can make it fool proof but not idiot proof