Anyone have any experience with Sherwin Williams Duration paint? The guy at the store said it is the best they have. I am putting it over a coat of 1-2-3 primer, and I am very disappointed at the coverage. The primer and the paint are both fresh cans, and the primer was applied the day before painting, so it’s not old but has fully cured. The coverage is terrible. In fact, in many places the paint seems to be pulling away from the primer. If I want to get one coat coverage, it will have to go on very thick, which I don’t want to do, so as a result the primer shows through in many places.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell’em “Certainly, I can!” Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
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I have experience with it. I like it real well. But I haven't the foggiest what 1 2 3 primer is. I will say that Duration is rather intended to go on thicker. The stuffs pretty thick in the can. But as it dries, it doesn't end up looking any different than any other 2 coat job. The feel of that much coming off the brush though, I can imagine how that might strike you wrong if you hadn't played with the stuff before.
I've done brush, roller, and airless with it. Last time I used it was a dark hunter green over cedar primed with oil. It really did cover about 99% in the first coat. I did spot touchups in a couple of places, but not much.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
Here's a pic of the primer can. Maybe I'm calling it the wrong name, cuz nobody recognizes what I'l talking about.
My Duration didn't cover 99%. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Zinsser Bullseye 1-2-3 is one of the best primers out there.
(I have about 4 empty 5-gallon buckets of 1-2-3 at a house I'm interior renovating.)
I found out about Zinsser products through Breaktime - do a search and you'll see.
A recent FH article on primers also mentions it.
(I am not a professional painter nor am I affiliated with Zinsser.)
What colors are involved? Is it maybe a case of medium to dark top coat over white primer?
Colors, you ask? Well, obviously the primer is stark white. And the paint is, well, as black as we could find. In retrospect, I should have had the primer tinted. See my other thread about painting a front door...there's a pic of the door.Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Duration is self priming. Read the can.
It is also the best h20 base paint in existance.
I read the can and saw the self-priming bit, but that goes against my history, so I applied a separate primer. If you believe the label, it's a fantastic paint.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Ed,
First time I used Duration was on our own house. I do that sorta thing alot. Try stuff out here first. I did a very through prep job including removal of many coats of old paint on this 1875 Vic. I also saw the self-prime info, but like you primed first anyway. Oil-base primer.
Then I got out the gun and started spraying. No backbrushing.
We couldn't be happier. That was about 7 years ago and it's held up better than anything I've ever used. No comparison to Super Paint which would be in need of recoat by now. The paint looks like it was put on a year ago........two years tops.
Taupe over white with no coverage problems at all after the first coat. I added a second coat on the south and west sides as they take the brunt of the weather.
Maybe you've thinned it a bit too much and/or just aren't laying on a "full" wet coat ???
I do know that the formula has changed since I last used it. Was told that by my SW rep about 6 months ago. I haven't used any since then, so maybe the new formula isn't what it used to be.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 6/4/2004 12:35 am ET by GOLDHILLER
I have never used Duration, but I do know a painter that had similiar complaints. He said two+ coats of white Duration were necessary over white primer or pre primed surfaces.
Not sure this was much help, but thought I'd pass it along.
Bullseye 1-2-3 is good stuff. Just wish it went on a bit slicker.
Eric
>>If I want to get one coat coverage, it will have to go on very thick
That's true of any house paint. When you are painting you want to apply paint like you owned the paint factory. Counter intuitional, I know. Applying as thick a first coat as possible, maintain an edge that will stay wet from dip to dip. That is the most economical method to achieve a quality layer and good coverage.
By assiduacely(sp) keeping your applicator full and applying sufficient liquid on the surface, you will get full coverage.
This thick wet edge of filming material shoud extend from Corner/Trim to C/T as it follows the work. The film has a chance to even out eliminating brush strokes and roller marks. Because it is of even thickness and because it has dried evenly, it is a complete film of protection and color.
The other advantage of laying a layer as thick as possible and not run too often, (I try hard enough that I will get a run brushing horizontal every 3 -4 dips,) it is the only way to know that the film is the same thickness evrywhere.
I have found that some paints, not all, maybe a third or two, do much better with a mist or speckle coat between the primer and the first coat.
To speckle coat with a roller, start your initial stroke away from any Cut To (C/T) and the previous stroke. Take a long initial stroke in order to dry your roller. Using the dry roller, roll out the initial stroke so as to get it as dry and thin as possible, spread the excess paint until its leaving droplets with a minimum 30% coverage. A very thin and dry 100% is OK. By coverage here, I mean that liquid has touched the surface.
Repeat as needed.
If you have to leave a wet edge to dry, speckle coat an area in front of you to dry your brush or roller, then taper your wet edge out to a speckle coat. When you come back to work, start your new wet edge on the previous one's speckled edge. Taper it back onto the previous full wet edge. Making a scarf joint, so to speak.
In order to achieve a full, even, continuous dry film, you must first achieve a full, even, continuous wet film.
Paint like you owned the paint factory.
SamT
Our last home (100yr old cedar siding vic) was scraped and sanded (removed loose paint and scuffed up the remaining). (Prior to this, old aluminum siding was removed, so the new paint went on over yellow 50+ year old lead paint.)
Painter brushed on two coats of medium green Duration; no primer. He called it glue; said it was the thickest stuff he had ever worked with and he loved it. And he is a very good painter. Only one I know who can afford a $950K house.
Later, I did the detached garage in one coat. also looked great and went on with no problems. 3 years later and it still looks great....for the new owner. :)
Did the second coat today...looks much better. The paint is a l;ittle thick, but not any more than other quality brands. I paid $41.99 for the gallon. But then I only need one can, so it's not bad considering the projected life.Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
$42 a gal? Methinks you need to hook yourself up with a charge account. Discounts are a good thing."If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
Applied Duration to our home 5 years ago and it looks as good today as it did when applied. SW recommends two coats for new wood. I went with a primer for the first coat because of cost.
There are two types of primers: Stain killers like 1-2-3, and "bonding" primers. The problem with 1-2-3 is that it dries semi-gloss to gloss. It's a good primer but I always tint it to the color of the finish paint. Personally, I prefer a bonding primer that dries flat. One coat covers bonding primers easily.
Sonny, give me a brand name of a bonding primer you like please.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
For the absolute best combination, use XIM. Believe it or not, it will also allow you to paint over laminate and ceramic tile and other non-porous substrates.
http://www.ximbonder.com/
and Flood's E.B. Emulsa-Bond primer that is mixed in with the finish paint:
http://www.floodco.com/Products/eb.cfm
Most paint stores carry both products, but call them first just to make sure. On high gloss trim and doors, I wipe them down with a deglosser first, which not only cleans the surfaces, but slightly softens the existing paint, even alkyd paint, and in which case you can even apply a latex enamel over that alkyd paint.
RE: Deglossers - Some are applied and about a 10 wait time is needed and then you must apply the finish paint within about an hour. Others have about a one hour wait time but you can then paint up to several days later, but only if additional airborne contaminants have not attached themselves to the surfaces.
I don't know your locale or temp., but if you're in a hot area, slightly mist the surface before painting so that moisture "pulls" the paint into the substrate. If possible do not paint on direct sunlight on hot days otherwise the paint will dry so fast it will instantly become only a surface film, and possibly not having had enough wet time to fully disperse prior to drying. It will be like brushing latex paint on a hot car's hood - instant dry with almost no adhesion.
Finally if the surface is wood or stucco, you can increase the paint film's life time by as much as 50% if every 2 years you pressure clean the surfaces (low pressure) just to remove contaminants that eat into the film.
Good luck,
Sonny
Sonny, I have been looking at that stuff for about a year now. It comes in both a green/gray can (xim) and a black can (uma). Which one do you prefer? Is there a difference? thanks, Steve
UMA is a water bourne acrylic. I only use the #400 white, and solvent based, in the gray/green can.
I also periodically experiment with it. For example, last year I got called to investigate some concrete stairways for a condo association. 60 of them with 8 steps to a platform that contained the entry door to the 2nd floor. Then once inside was another short stairway opening into the ijnterior entry way. Anyway, these steps had been painted about 8 months earlier, I was told with H & C concrete stain (Pearl gray). The paint was both blistering that became brittle and popped upon stepping on them, while other areas/stairways had flaking both on the treads and risers. The painter would not return.
After much difficulty of trying this and that procedure, I finally figured out that the H & C stain was applied over an existing coat of a latex stain - a no-no. The blistering was a separate issue from the falking - having two separate causes, which I finally conquered Anyway, during one of my experiemental tries, I washed a few flaking areas with TSP and rinsed, (flaking was caused by non-compatible paint/stain), litely sanded them and applied a coat of XIM 400, but made the mistake of using their spray can, which during the heat here, dried almost instantly. Repainting over those areas with new stain resulted in flaking again within abut a month or two. But applying the XIM with a brush from a quart, and waiting until the next day to apply the stain, solved the problem.
Also had a problem getting any stain to stay even when the raw concrete was exposed and I first cleaned it and etched it with muriatic, Using the XIM on that raw concrete solved that problem as well. The new stain stuck to it like glue.
So any additional stairways with only flaking was solved with the above procedure.
Incidentally, the blistering was caused by applying the H & C in either too heavy of a coat or while moisture existed in the concrete.
BTW, I've also used XIM as the primer before painting ceramic wall tile in a bathroom, and a two part epoxy as the finish coat. Beautiful finish that looked like it was sprayed on.
So don't be afraid to try using the #400 in different scenarios. It's a great product.
Thanks for the great info. I went to look at a ceiling in Hawaii which is out of cedar tongue and grove. First of all there is no air conditioning, so the humidity is the same inside as outside. The cedar is all splotty looking. This xim looks like the answer.
Ed,
Zinsser makes one called Cover Stain- Bond Coat. Excellen adhesion, oil-based, flat finish. Paint adheres to it much better than it does to 1-2-3.
Duey