Just installed a pull down attic ladder. Had to level the ladder to make it function correctly, however it accentuates the fact that the ceiling is noticeably sloped ( 90 year old house). The slope is about 1 1/2 inch over the five foot width of the hall.
How do I shim the ceiling level for new drywall?
Fortunately the area is a hallway and not too large 13’ x 5’. The ceiling is currently plaster and lath. The ceiling joists are 2×4’s.
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Replies
If you're taking the plaster off anyway (I know, I'm assuming facts not in evidence) perhaps the easiest to get away with is snapping a straight and level line around the area (got a laser?) and scabbing 2x4s on to the old ones.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
If you have enough height from floor to ceiling I would use metal studs and track. Find the low point and level from there. If you use 2 1/2" metal studs there is no need to support the middle in a five foot span. Nail or screw track around perimeter, cut studs and fasten them to each side with panhead screws or pop rivets.
You could use 1 1/2" studs but then a means of support in the middle is neccessary.Furring strips would give you the most height but a lot of shimming is required.
mike
I run into this all the time - here is my long winded answer for you.
Go with the laser level and steel. I use steel every where I can now. I am currently working on a master bedroom suite in a 70+ y/o house. As in this situation, I will usually remove the old ceiling for two main reasons (this one happened to be rock lathe and plaster, which surprised me for the age of the house - I expected lathe and plaster until I saw the cracks running in a nice 2'x4' pattern from the rock lathe joints). The first reason for removing the old ceiling is deadload. In many of these old houses, the joists may only be 2x6's over long spans with a full attic load on top (the fake christmas tree, the tires off that old K-car you forgot you put up there, Johnny's old bunk beds, the concrete blocks and 1x12's you used for your very first modular shelving system, etc.). Adding the weight of a layer of 5/8" (or 1/2") DW just can't be good. The second reason for removing the ceiling is it is a great time to update things like electrical, coax, cat5e, ductwork, insulation and all that other hidden stuff. Once all the infrastructure is up to par, there are several ways to go about leveling the ceiling. The easiest is if headroom is not an issue (the ceilings are already 10', loosing a few inches won't matter). Use a laser level (trust me, rent one if you have to, the job will go much quicker and the results much better) to set track on two opposite walls (usually the longer walls) and then simply infill with the appropriate size steel studs or joists (your steel supplier should be able to determine the size and gauge of material you will need). The downside to this method is that you may need to use larger and heavier gauge material to freespan long distances (increased cost) or shim and support the joists midspan. If you do not want to loose any headroom, and there is no bridging or utilities in the way, simply scab the steel to the side of the existing joists. I first temporarily attach a steel stud or track along the wall perpenducular to the joists as a ledger (set this stud with the top edge even or just below the lowest point on the existing ceiling using the laser level). Then it is simply a matter of dropping some 25ga 3-5/8" studs on top of the two ledgers and securing them to the existing joists with some #10 x 1" self-taping crews every 16". Once the two ledgers are set, the process is very fast. Using staging to "walk and screw" instead of climbing up and down a ladder is even faster. If there are too many obstacles to sister steel to wood, then I use 7/8" steel furring channels. The process is basically the same except the furring channels are run perpendicular to the existing joists. I secure the steel to the wood at every crossing point. As I work across the ceiling, I slide two tapered shims from opposite directions to take up any gap between steel and wood, then drive two self-drilling DW screws through furring channel and shims into the existing joist. Leave your laser level on and check as you tighten each screw. It is easy to overdrive a screw and pull things out of level. Just tighten the screws until the laser hits the mark.
By the way, I also use these methods for walls and floors where necessary. I just finished a bathroom where one wall was 2-1/2" longer than the other with nothing plumb or square. I furred everything out with steel (on floors, I sister steel to both sides of the joist - probably overkill but better to overkill something than have it come back and bite you in the --s). When it came time to install the floor to ceiling tile and frameless glass walk in shower, all cut tiles where the same size and my glass installer finished the job so quickly he took me out to lunch and gave me a discount on the job.
Hope that long winded reply helps you out.
Edited 5/24/2004 9:53 pm ET by 127
Edited 5/24/2004 9:57 pm ET by 127
I think I would use furring strips. Use different sizes of wood. 2x on the high side, 1/4" ply close to the low side, 3/4" in the middle, etc.
It depends on the situation, but in larger areas that need a fair amount of adjustment I like to use 1x3's either under each joist or run crosswise to the joists and screwed into each joist. I setup the laser level and shim beneath the 1x3's at each joist or every 16" along each joist. You'll find that 5/8" drywall is much stiffer than 1/2" and tends help in getting a nice crisp flat surface. 5/8" DW also provides some security in case a little plaster should ever fall. Scabbing 2x4's or 2x3's is much easier where you can work with open joists .... but pulling down the plaster is a LOTTA WORK. I wouldn't do it unless there is a very good reason (like you gotta have every one of those inches up there).
Hi Asennad,
127 gave some really good info on the subject...so did alot of others...here's my 2 cents:
1. don't rent a laser level for such a small job...5 foot width hardly justifies the $60 rental fee when a 4 foot level will do nicely.
2. Tearing down the plaster does have benefits, but is really messy ( black soot-like dust will go everywhere!) tear it out only if you want to. if losing a few inches in existing height is not a factor, then leave in place. If wiring is an issue, then definately tear out.
3. One thing no one mentioned is an alternative...install a drop ceiling in your hallway. There are many decorative ceiling panels to choose from today. Going this route would save you from tearing out existing ceiling, and could easily be installed in a day and requires no drywall finishing skills...just a thought to consider.
4. Metal studs have their place, and this is one place where they work really well, but if you feel more comfortable with wood, use no2, 1X4 for furring...regular furring strips tend to split too much for my taste. Remember to start on the low side first, and then bring everything down to that level. An easy way to keep things in line is to install furring strips at opposite ends and then attach a few stringlines between the two. Stretch the string lines taut and use this as your guide for setting the other furring in place.
Just my 2 cents.
LOL
Davo
My problem with the scenario is that you`ve already installed the stairs. Hindsight being 20/20, you should have attentioned the problem prior to the installation of the stairs.
My personal opinion? Pull out the stairs and tear down the ceiling. Start from scratch and use any of the several previously mentioned methods, then go back and install the stairs to a level plane.
A quick fix which might work....I say might as I don`t know where the stairs fall in the ceiling (high point? low point? somewhere in the middle?)......begin by finding the low point of the ceiling. Level a line around the perimeter of the hallway. Using 1 x 3 wood firring strips, @ 16" OC, screw up through the plaster and into the ceiling joists. Use shims to level firring strips as necessary. Check each firring strip with a masons line to ensure you`re not only level, but straight as well. Install SR and extend stair frame to accept trim.
Best of luck.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
is the floor sloped the same as the ceiling?
No I don't think the floor is sloped. Why do you ask?
I have not used metal studs. So I think I will stick to wood for now.
I may have to put off this project for a while. Mother in Law comes in less than two weeks and all my other projects have to be finished before she arrives. There is also a crappy closet in one corner of the hall I wish to rebuild before I redo the ceiling.
The smart thing for me to do now is to patch the ceiling temporarily and redo it later.
My question is, why even bother? If the stairs are up and secure, who cares that the ceiling slopes? If it is in good shape, just leave the thing alone, pick your battles, in 90yrs someone will have to straighten out your fix.
"My question is, why even bother? If the stairs are up and secure, who cares that the ceiling slopes?"
I agree. If the slope of the cieling is only noticeable now that you have a contrast between the stair and the cieling, why not install the stairs on the same plane as the existing cieling.
Pull down stairs have plenty of leeway. cut one leg of the ladder shorter than the other. Its not exactly finish carpentry to begin with. make it work
why do you say that this is not finish capentry?
why do you say that this is not finish capentry?
Its a utility access into the attic. When it is folded up you don't see anything but a flat panel on the cieling. As a matter of fact the cieling would look better without it! Finish carpentry should compliment the architecture the house.
Fold down stairs are regarded as an eye-sore but are neccesary because of their functionality. The trick is to put it somewhere in the house where it is out of sight and try to blend it into the existing surroundings.
its a door right? just like any door it is finish work. siding is finish work. roofing is finish work. concrete is finish work
Yeah, I need to hire some finish carpenters to put a roof on my garage! Then maybe a few more to put up that concrete retaining wall. LOL
cool
Not only is the ceiling sloped but there is this god awfull patern in the plaster. It must be covered.
You are probably the first and last person to ever notice that pattern, whatever it is. Leave it alone, use that energy to come over to my house to help me fix some real problems!! You will see ceilings that wave, slope, and one with an indentation as a result of peeled calcimite paint that looks remarkably like the island of Manhattan. But it is solid, and it will look like that as long as I live there.
remodeling is a challenge. not well suited for most people
Shim the house back up to where it was 90 years ago.