After shooting the foundation last night I unfortunately found it was out 3/4 at it’s worst. The worst I’d ever fixed and framed on was 1″, it’s great that my own house holds a close second. Anyhow the way I’m goint to fix it to rip P.Treated shims at all the bolts and do my best to fill in between each. I’ll also have to somehow caulk or seal it everywhere to make it tight. The mason laughed when I said months ago” I won’t have to shim or bring it back into square will I? It’s a block foundation.
Any suggestions on other fixes for this?
Thanks
R.R.
Replies
Assuming it's out of level and pretty square I'd probably lay the sill plate tight to the sill seal, bolt it down out of level......recheck and shim the rim board......also the joists that attach in the raised area. It's always IMO easier working things out wood to wood rather than dealing with block.
Any way you look at it is a lot of extra work that shouldn't have to be done.
FHB had an article on this topic years ago that I thought was really well written if you can dig up the old issue.
Here's a technique I have used if one or to walls are bad. I'll scribe and rip a rim joist that is one size up so it is level and in contact with the sill. Then you can shim inividual joist to meet the top of the rim. You may be able to notch if its a section where the joist are oversized for the span, and the notches are small.
Tom
How did the mason get a block wall 3/4" out of level? Were the footings level? That almost sounds intentional. Maybe your joke piffed him off.
Hi Rupert
I would shim level at the bolts or every other one, and then lift the plate and throw in some stiff cement mix with a little plaster adhesive or bonding agent in it. Then put on the plate and snug down to the shims and you have continuous bearing and it is sealed at the same time.Clean the excess cement and frame away.
Another question would be how to prevent this or at least get paid for the extra time. Do any of you have a "standard" you hold concrete contractors to? Do you , for example, write into the contract a squareness and levelness spec and charge $ for every 1/4" the foundation is out of this spec?
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect top of foundation wall to be AT LEAST within 1/4" and 1/8" is certainly achievable, at least for me and I do foundations only when I have to. The mason who usually does block foundations for me is a pleasure to work behind because his tolerances are so close to perfect that framing on top of his work is totally straight forward.
And the concrete sub who just finished a 50' tetrahedon dome basement foundation with 10' walls for me was within 1/8" all around and within 1/4" on the sides and corners. I put down the subfloor without a hitch and the pre-fabbed dome components went up beautifully.
I might add that both of these guys and their crews work quickly and efficiently. It doesn't take but just a little more time and attention to detail to do a job right.
I would blow a gasket if I found a foundation to be 3/4" out along the top! How is it for square or to dimension?
Earlier posts offered some good remedies, but you shouldn't have to be dealing with this.
I wouldn't get excited about a poured foundation being out 3/4" if a large one but for laid block? I suppose I'd laugh back at the masdon when he asked for his final payment.
Excellence is its own reward!
Not to be contrary, but 3/4" out over how long a span? This doesn't sound all that awful to me. I've certainly framed off worse, and out of square measured in multiple inches. Ideal, NO, real world...yes. Will you chase it all the way to the ridge? Not hardly.
I would tend to agree with Keith 3/4" is not really going to hurt you unless its a short wall and your window/door RO are plumb & square. My house has 23 steps in the footings and somehow mostly luck it shot with in a inch all the way around. JMHO Roger
I agree with Keith. I've built on a lot worse......inches worse, especially on the square (where they screw up the most)....even on a simple retangular foundation.
When the block guys gone, you shoot the corners/adjust and move on........that's the way it is. Only once did I have one so bad I couldn't fix it by minipulating the wood. It was a prow front and there was absolutely no way to cover the mega inches ....so I pulled off the job. The house got built by someone else though.
Only once, as a GC did I have to take a sledge hammer to a block guys work and he was over four and heading for more by the time I caught up to him.
Like I said before, I rarely, if ever see anything perfect in the roughing of houses, especially in cookie cutter tract houses. Everybody screams quality while thinking TIME and MONEY. Even the 2x10's vary in width upwards of 3/8 of an inch. You do the best you can.There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
Thanks everyone for you ideas and stories. I fixed it by shimming the sill plate at every bolt and halfway in between. Used P.T. shims. I plan on using a cement grout bag to fill the outside gap and foam inside. The deck came out right on. Haven't forgot how to fix mistakes just don't have time for it.
Thanks again
Roy
There was a string a few days ago where somebody (don't rember who) was making the case for being involved in all phases of a project. This is a good example.
I agree that 3/4" out on a long wall is not a huge deal but if the forms are checked prior to the pour to ensure the strike boards are level IMO 3/4" out is poor worksmanship unless a form blows or an air pocket causes a sag. Thing is, out of level/out of square just follows you all the way to the top unless it's caught early. Either way, it costs time, not to mention aggravation.
And I totally agree that a block wall that far out is inexcusable.
I've put a few things together over the years but picked up a technique from reading "Precision Framing" by Mike Guertin and Rick Arnold. (Taunton Press, of course) Never used it before and have never seen it done but it looks like just the ticket to make up for really bad foundations.
Double mud sill.
Bolt down the PT sill tight over the sill sealer and shim the second plate level. So what if it takes a little longer and a few more sticks. Much easier and eventually faster than chasing plumb and level all the way to the ridge or scribing rims and joists.
And, if you are good - or lucky - the rest of the dimensional lumber will cooperate, too.<G>
Rupert741:
In the early 70's, when I was framing houses, I framed one that in places had a 6 to 9 inches diveations throughtout the block foundation. It was also 22" out of square. The GC lived about 40 miles away and did little supervising. What I did was anchor the sill plates, set the end rim boards level. I then pulled string lines and worked to those lines. After the joist were in placed I added the rim board. I had a 16 inch counterlever on one corner and a 6 inch counterlever on the other corner.3/4" is nothing; I'm sure you can fix it.
Charlie
PS. I drive by this house, it is a 2 story,in an upscale neighborhood. It still looks fine.