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Shingle technique question.

blownonfuel | Posted in Construction Techniques on March 26, 2009 08:18am

I have a few questions on laying down asphalt (archy type) of shingles.

1. When doing a hip roof do you start at one of the hip corners? Can you start in the center and work your way our from there?

2. After you lay down your starter course shingles, should you stagger the first layer that goes directly on the stater course? I was watching a video of someone laying the starter course shingles and then laying the next layer right on top but this would leave a small gap at the edges on the first row.

 

Thanks

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Replies

  1. cargin | Mar 26, 2009 08:59pm | #1

    blown

    Lay your starter row.

    For a hip roof I start in the middle. Offset your seams by 6 1/2 "

    Lay full shingle on the 1st row.

    2nd row lay a 26" shingle, centered on the full shingle

    3rd row lay a 13" shingle centered on the 26" shingle

    Now you have a double ladder, work each one up towards the hip.

    Rich

    1. blownonfuel | Mar 26, 2009 10:16pm | #2

      Thanks Rich. Do you offest your first full shingle over the starter course shingle?

      1. User avater
        Sphere | Mar 26, 2009 10:42pm | #3

        Always.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

        Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

         

        They kill Prophets, for Profits.

         

         

      2. seeyou | Mar 26, 2009 10:50pm | #4

        Do you offest your first full shingle over the starter course shingle?

        Yeah. You don't want the joints to line up. Just pick a spot to start where the 1st course shingle straddles a starter shingle joint.

        Rich's starter system is a good one, but involves too much cuttting for my tastes and I'm more comfortable working to my right.

        I typically start at the left hip and install a shingle with the left bottom edge of the shingle touching the hip. I make sure I begin the starter row with a partial shingle so there's no joint line-up.

        The second course shingle gets shifted to the left a minimum of 5", but no more than 8". A portion of the shingle will extend past the hip. Repeat for each course until you run off the hip. Come back to the bottom and repeat. Each rack will get 3-4 courses taller. When you get to the right hip, there will be pieces to fill in. Come back to the left hip and cut the excess. Use those pieces to fill in on the right hip.http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image        

        1. Hazlett | Mar 27, 2009 12:45am | #5

          ditto Grants method---except I generally try to fudge the layout so I am only cutting the top left corner off the top of the left hip shingles---instead of cutting through the double lamination. If it's the least bit cool out- I will usually cut each right hip shingle with a large pair of malco siding snips or old tin snips.
          If it's warm i will just zip down the hip with a hook knife.
          stephen

        2. blownonfuel | Mar 27, 2009 02:40am | #6

          Thanks guys that clears up a lot for me.

          1. Piffin | Mar 27, 2009 09:51pm | #7

            It varies a lot by person - left handed or right
            Work above the shingles on down belowvalleys?
            I want to run my full shingle into the valley so there isn't a but joint there ina bad place, and I don't want any nails in the valley.We just did one this week ( tree fell on it last winter and been waiting for warmish weather) that was hip and valley. started at valleys and worked across out of them. was very lucky in that one of them ran so that when we got to the hip, there was no waste. The other had only a modest amt. If I am going to have a small piece top put in, I want it on the hip, not in the valley. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          2. blownonfuel | Mar 27, 2009 10:21pm | #8

            Thanks Piffin.

        3. blownonfuel | Mar 30, 2009 08:17pm | #9

          Hey Grant once I have worked my way up to the ridge do I then start going accross? If I followed you correctly it should look like a pyramid when I start. Hip on the left, enough courses on the bottom to make sure the shingle is covered by the one above.

           

          Just curious but why not lay the first row of shingles all the way accross the roof and then the next row, etc.? Too much back and forth?

           

          Thanks

          1. User avater
            BossHog | Mar 30, 2009 08:20pm | #10

            I think it's good to run in long lines in order to keep things straight if you're not experienced laying shingles. But other than that it doesn't really matter IMHO.
            When two men in business always agree, one of them is unnecessary. [William Wrigley, Jr.]

          2. blownonfuel | Mar 30, 2009 08:33pm | #11

            Good Point. Thanks Boss.

          3. Piffin | Mar 30, 2009 09:48pm | #14

            better to chaulk lines for straight 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          4. blownonfuel | Mar 30, 2009 10:58pm | #15

            Thanks Guys. I got it now.

          5. User avater
            BossHog | Mar 30, 2009 11:20pm | #16

            Chalking lines takes time too.
            A pun is the lowest form of humor - When you don't think of it first. [Oscar Levant]

          6. Piffin | Mar 31, 2009 12:48am | #17

            believe me, after laying a few square miles of shingles, I know - I lay shingles three times faster stepping UP the roof than wasting time going across, and the line snapping for the whole roof takes only twenty minutes. For every minute spent on lines, I save twenty on body movements. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          7. User avater
            BossHog | Mar 31, 2009 12:56am | #18

            I agree with you, but - I suggested going across for inexperienced rofers. And it appears that the OP is fairly inexperienced.Even if he snaps lines, he can get a better idea if he's high or low by running all the way across so he's matching up with a chalked line. BTW - I don't see a problem with running 2 to 4 rows across as a time - I didn't mean just one row. That way you can see how your lines are running before it gets hard to correct.
            It takes many nails to make a crib, but just one screw to fill it.

          8. Piffin | Mar 31, 2009 01:04am | #19

            Good compromise.You are getting as mellow as a cuddly teddy bear lately. Must be the company you are keeping! My compliments. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          9. User avater
            BossHog | Mar 31, 2009 01:31am | #21

            I'm not mellow - I'm just taking it easy on you because you're so danged old.(-:
            9 out of 10 doctors say the 10th doctor should mellow out.

          10. Hazlett | Apr 02, 2009 02:30pm | #25

            boss-- doing it your way is VERY bad for the shingles--especially if it gets the least bit warm out---- constant foot traffic back and forth across hot shingles damages them and reduces their life YEARS down the road.
            Stair stepping or racking up the roof means that you can sit/walk on COOL shingles- not hot ones
            stephen

          11. seeyou | Mar 30, 2009 08:54pm | #12

            Too much back and forth?

            Exactly.

            I like to sit on my left hip. If the roof is too steep for loose shingles to stay on without sliding, I hold a bundle in my lap. I nail on 3-4 shingles and then I can grab the foam cushion under my hip with my left hand and hold the bundle and the nail gun with the right and push up the roof with my right foot to get in position for the next four courses. If you go side to side, you have to move every shingle.

            Snap lines before you start. For dimensionals, we use 11's. As a beginner, you might want to snap lines every eleven inches (5 1/2" per course). If we use chalk at all, we typically snap them every 44".

            My guys take a little extra time getting the underlayment on straight so they can use the lines on it and forgo the chalk.

            Get your starter and 1st course on all the way across and rest your tape against the top of the 1st course to start your layout. You'll have to work off of a ladder or upside down until you get 5 or 6 courses on. I usually finish the 1st 6 courses on the bottom all the way across. Then you can work on up from below. Some people work from above, but I'm tall and it's uncomfortable.

            Stop 5 or 6 courses from the top and recheck  for parallel to the ridge if there is one. You might need to cheat a couple of courses if you've gotten off a little or if the eave and ridge aren't parallel. Always cheat down, not up. http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image        

          12. rez | Mar 31, 2009 01:18am | #20

            I hold a bundle in my lap. I nail on 3-4 shingles and then I can grab the foam cushion under my hip with my left hand and hold the bundle and the nail gun with the right and push up the roof with my right foot to get in position for the next four courses.

            Man, doesn't that get your pants dirty tho'?

          13. User avater
            Sphere | Mar 31, 2009 01:32am | #22

            Who said he had pants on?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

             

            They kill Prophets, for Profits.

             

             

          14. bowquack | Mar 31, 2009 07:39pm | #23

            I am in the process, and did just like suggested working left to right.  Instead of putting the shingles on my lap tho, I bought a handful of the cheap metal garage hangups ( L shaped, with the little lip) and set them up ahead of my work to set the shingles on.  Worked great, easy to use and move.  Bout the time I was done, I'd figured out how many to put on the hook!  Worst part was not having some young guy to haul the shingles up 16' of ladder for me.

            And of course I wore pants.  It was too cold this time not to.

            Edited 3/31/2009 12:40 pm ET by bowquack

          15. Hazlett | Apr 02, 2009 02:27pm | #24

            Get 2 cushions grant-one for you--one for the shinglesI put a cushion about 5-6 feet above me on the roof-- put the bundle on that----put MY cushion in position---grab about half the bundle pull it down untill the loose shingles are wedged against the top of MY cushion-and have at it. on a long run of roof- i might have 2-3 cushions for the shingles--and then I can climb up the roof cushion to cushion
            stephen

          16. seeyou | Apr 02, 2009 02:56pm | #26

             

            Get 2 cushions grant-one for you--one for the shingles

             

            I got a better Idea. I'll stay in the shop and bend metal and let guys half my age get a 2nd cushion.

            Seriously, I use that method to hold half the bundle and I only carry half the bundle with me. Makes for less motion. But I can't say I used the exact same method on every roof. Pitch, layout and size of crew always alter my method. I think a 2nd person packing and throwing can double my output in most cases.

            Good point about the cool vs warm shingles. http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image        

          17. Don | Apr 02, 2009 04:34pm | #27

            A quick question, slightly off the beaten path.Back when I was a teenager, I was given the job of putting the tin caps in the 30 lb felt. Ten thousand caps later, I had tennis elbow, but the roof never came off. Now I cannot find a tin cap to save myself. All i can find are those plastic thingys.Don't they give you a lumpy roof when used for the felt? i noticed that the existing roof has short roofing nails for holding down the felt.Are the plastic thingys any good?DonDon Reinhard
            The Glass Masterworks
            "If it scratches, I etch it!"

          18. User avater
            BossHog | Apr 02, 2009 04:38pm | #28

            We used 'em on the roof I did down in Louisiana - That was a first for me. Once the shingles were down I couldn't tell where they were.
            The game of catch has never been so much fun. [inventor of the hand grenade]

          19. blownonfuel | Apr 02, 2009 05:56pm | #29

            I had a rain strom pass through this morning so now my newly applied/ not completed shingles got wet. How long do I have to wait for any water that got under them to dry out before I keep laying up more? When it's not one thing it's another.

             

            Man those bundles of shingles are heavy. I threw one oever my shoulder and climbed up the ladder, I'll never do that again. The next time up I took half the bundle with me. Now I know why they do roof top deliveries.

          20. davidmeiland | Apr 02, 2009 06:00pm | #30

            Keep going!

          21. blownonfuel | Apr 02, 2009 06:18pm | #31

            I guess there is really nothing I can do about any moisture underneath anyway.

             

            Thanks David.

          22. blownonfuel | Apr 07, 2009 08:05pm | #32

            Hey guys I have another question. Where should my last row of shingles that goes right next to the ridge fall? I know the ridge cap shingles will cover the top of the last row but do I just run the top edge of the last row of shingles even with the ridge?

             

            Thanks

          23. seeyou | Apr 07, 2009 11:23pm | #33

            Your ridge cap is 12" wide. The nailing area of the top course has to fall within 6" of the ridge so the ridge cap covers the nails in the top course.http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image        

          24. blownonfuel | Apr 08, 2009 07:57pm | #38

            Thanks Grant. Do you cut any of the top off of the shingle or just let it fall over to the other side of the ridge?

          25. Piffin | Apr 08, 2009 08:07pm | #39

            fold over 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          26. blownonfuel | Apr 08, 2009 08:11pm | #40

            Should I nail the folded over part Piffin? Folded over as in the other side of the ridge correct?

            Edited 4/8/2009 1:12 pm ET by blownonfuel

          27. Piffin | Apr 08, 2009 08:27pm | #41

            usually not when it is warm, it lays down by itself by time I get the next course run. But if the wind is blowing that day or it is cold, yes, I nail it over. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          28. blownonfuel | Apr 08, 2009 08:29pm | #42

            Thank you sir.

          29. Piffin | Apr 08, 2009 12:38am | #34

            Using any ridge vent? 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          30. blownonfuel | Apr 08, 2009 07:55pm | #37

            No ridge vent Piffin. I ended up figuring it out when I got home yesterday.

          31. cargin | Apr 08, 2009 09:22pm | #43

            blown

            Do you have any venting?

            IMO ridge venting is the best way to go.

            Rich

          32. blownonfuel | Apr 08, 2009 09:52pm | #44

            Hello Rich. Yes I do have some roof top vents. I thought I read somewhere that ridge vents were actually not that effective.

          33. frammer52 | Apr 08, 2009 09:57pm | #45

            Not hear, unless you have been listening to the wrong crowd!>G<

          34. blownonfuel | Apr 08, 2009 10:06pm | #46

            Well then now is the time to do it.  Which do you recommend? How much room do I need between the sheathing and ridge for proper ventilation?

          35. frammer52 | Apr 08, 2009 10:29pm | #49

            Cut the plywood about 1.5" on either side of the ridge.

          36. blownonfuel | Apr 08, 2009 10:32pm | #51

            Thanks. I'm looking at the Corba Rigid Vent II from Gaf Elk.

          37. cargin | Apr 08, 2009 10:08pm | #47

            blown

            We do alot of reroofing.

            We throw away the regular can vents and replace with rdge vents as standard practice.

            Here is a picture of a the attic whirlybird.

            View Image

            I realize you don't have snow much down in TX, but you do have wind driven rain. I have seen wet spots under most roof cans.

            My opinion for what it's worth.

            Rich

          38. blownonfuel | Apr 08, 2009 10:17pm | #48

            You are correct Rich. We do have lots of wind driven rain. Well now is the time to add a ridge vent. What do you suggest?

          39. cargin | Apr 08, 2009 10:31pm | #50

            Blown

            We use Lomanco omni roll. 20' rolls They also have an omni roll in a slim line.

            You are going to have to hand nail your cap pieces on to with 2 1/2" nails.

            You should leave 1 1/2" gap at the top if you have trusses and 3/4" gap on either side of a ridge board if you hand framed.

            to be correct you should talk to your lumberyard about your ventilation and have them figure your soffit vents and your ridge vent so that they are balanced.

            Or go to Lomanco's website. I don't have the link right now.

            Rich

          40. blownonfuel | Apr 08, 2009 10:34pm | #52

            Thanks Rich. I'm looking at the Gaf Elk ridge vent right now since that is who the new shingles are from. The tech. notes online give you a formula to follow for the correct intake/exhaust ratio.

          41. cargin | Apr 08, 2009 10:49pm | #53

            I have no experience with Cobra vents from GAF

            Sorry I can't give an OP.

            Rich

          42. blownonfuel | Apr 08, 2009 11:33pm | #54

            Thanks for the info. anyway Rich.

          43. seeyou | Apr 09, 2009 12:24am | #55

            I prefer the Cobra product over all others. It's the only thing GAF makes that I like.http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image        

          44. blownonfuel | Apr 09, 2009 06:01pm | #56

            You don't even like the shingles?

          45. frammer52 | Apr 09, 2009 09:42pm | #57

            Don't worry, your shingles probably come from a different factory.

            GAF in the NE is a fine product.  I have heard of others in the south like grant that feal it is garbage. 

            I really think it is a matter of different manufactoring facilities.

          46. seeyou | Apr 09, 2009 10:36pm | #58

            I really think it is a matter of different manufactoring facilities.

            I'm sure Texas and KY shingles don't come out of the same plant and they are of lesser quality here. Also, I'm still waiting for the GAF rep to show up and look at a warranty problem. Been waiting for 15 years. And, probably 9 out of 10 blow offs we see are GAFs.http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image        

          47. frammer52 | Apr 09, 2009 10:50pm | #59

            this is like the arguement about Pella windows.  Their representation sucks around here, but others have had a favorable opinion of them.

            Our local representation of GAF has always been fine , at least until 3 yrs ago, but you obviously have a different representative!>G<

          48. seeyou | Apr 09, 2009 11:01pm | #60

            but you obviously have a different representative!>

            Maybe I have the same one and he never leaves NY state.http://www.quittintime.com/      View Image        

          49. frammer52 | Apr 09, 2009 11:06pm | #61

            He has a good think going and he knows it!

          50. Piffin | Apr 12, 2009 11:36pm | #65

            A little different - All the Pellas come from one plant for the most part but GAF has several regional manuf locations. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          51. blownonfuel | Apr 09, 2009 11:06pm | #62

            Well they do have a sticker on the bundles that say, "Dallas, Do not mix". They look good but what do I know.

          52. frammer52 | Apr 09, 2009 11:17pm | #63

            can't tell by looking, unfortuneatly. 

            Get back and nail some more on, you are slackin'!!!!!

          53. blownonfuel | Apr 10, 2009 12:05am | #64

            Will do.

          54. Piffin | Apr 12, 2009 11:36pm | #66

            If my name is not Dallas, can I mix them?;) 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          55. blownonfuel | Apr 14, 2009 03:34pm | #67

            Maybe it is okay to mix them if you are not in Dallas or named Dallas. I think it is okay to mix them once you get out of Dallas or are not named Dallas. I'm in San Marcos and my name is not Dallas so I think i'm okay.

          56. jimAKAblue | Apr 08, 2009 07:15am | #35

            Them shingles are heavy Lol! I'm so weak and old now I have to split the bundles into three packs.

            I just finished a 2 square roof and it took me 6 hours! I have always been slow at shingles but this is a new record for me. I guess it wouldn't be too bad if the shingles were straight but....the first side was perfect but I was really, really bored by the time I got to the other side.

            My hats are off to you guys who know how to shingle and can do more than two square in a day on a walkable roof LOL! I'll refrain from making any more derogatory comments about roofers.

            Blownonfuel, what city is your house in? Are you in San Marco?

          57. blownonfuel | Apr 08, 2009 07:54pm | #36

            Blue, i'm in San Marcos just down the road from you. 2 squares in 6 hours? That's still faster than me.

          58. Piffin | Mar 30, 2009 09:38pm | #13

            going all the way across te roof means you have to move your body 39" for each shingle. Racking them up the roof means you move your body about 8" for each shingle average and don't have to move for each and every one.So the question is, do you want to spend your day productively laying shingles or getting a workout moving around? 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

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