I just started a roof job here at home. I rent and put in a bid to re-roof the house and put a clause in the bid that any work that resulted in underlayment or framing issues would be at a certain rate per man hour.
As I began stripping the main roof I discovered that there are two layers of shingles (no wonder the roof was sagging). Worse still, the original layer are so old they break off into tiny pieces which make stripping the roof really labor intensive.
Do you think that I covered myself with that clause where I can tell the owner (my landlord) that it’s going to cost x dollars/ man hour in addition to the modest bid that he agreed upon?
Thanks, Richard
Replies
Richard, you live there and you didn't bother to investigate the condition of the job before you bid it?
This the first thing you've ever done on your own?
You are saying it's going to take longer than you thought/bid, so someone else should cover your bid screwup?
Is that the question?
The answer is no.
Joe H
After your responses I decided to go out and compare the house (2 layers) and garage (1 layer) gables, they look identical. Here's what the last roofer did. They removed the drip edge and put the new drip edge over the old shingles. This being the case, When I lifted the shingles that are exposed I saw the standard drip edge with a starter coarse along the eve and up the rake of the gable. I did not tear shingles off the roof before I bid it. From all appearances it did and does not look like there are two layers of shingles on the roof.I consider myself to have a very good eye and I could not and still can not see the difference between the two gables. I'm not a roofer but I can tell you that it's not as obvious as you may think.And no, this is not the first thing I've ever done on my own.Richard
What the previous roofer did was pretty much SOP for a second layer. The idea, after all, is to make it look the same despite the fact that it's a double layer.Re your "underlayment" clause, I don't think that will fly. IMO you're gonna have to eat the additional labor and chalk it up to inexperience.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
I just did a layer over a month ago , we cut back the old rake shingles and starters before the new drip and starters. Makes the new layer lay flatter and no one could tell from the ground it was a 2 layer job.
As I understand it, that is SOP here.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
You gotta be kidding me ..Jorge is @ what %? Now?
You're screwed. An experienced roofer can see from the ground whether there is one layer or more on a roof, just by looking at a gable edge. The good news is that now you can see that too. Get a proper roof-stripping shovel and get those things offa there.
>>"Do you think that I covered myself with that clause where I can tell the owner (my landlord) that it's going to cost x dollars/ man hour in addition to the modest bid that he agreed upon?
I'm not a roofer, but looking at it from just a straight contract perspective, do I think you "covered" yourself -- no. There's enough ambiguity to drive a truck through. From a non-roofer's perspective, underlay means you were getting at the condition of the sheathing and framing. What does it really mean in roofing parlance, can't tell you.
Do I think you should make the argument and try to get some headway instead of losing your shirt on this one -- yes. Explain to the guy what happened, no way to know how poor the condition of the old shingles would be 'till you got up there and started ripping them and the extra labor is $X.
He got a cheap bid due to your, don't want to say "inexperience," but he got a cheap bid for the work, right? If you factor in the additional labor you will actually need to do the job, he is still probly getting a bargain, no? If he's a reasonable guy, maybe you'll come out OK. If he's not, well, get to work. ;-)
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
The answer is No! If you can get the owner to buy off that a second course of shingles is underlayment then I've got a dirt floor in a basement that can be considered finished concrete.
Your best bet is tell him straight up "I messed up seems the roof has 2 layers" this is going to take me x amount longer. Maybe see if he would split the extra time.
In your bid/proposal you need to cover all the bases: Examples
1. Removal of more than one layer of shingles will cost $750 extra.
2. Replacing water-damaged underlayment with same OSB or plywood at $20/sheet plus $20 labor.
You try and cover yourself in the contract for everything but you will always miss something, so you need a margin in the bid to cover that a bit of padding.
I agree with most of what you've all graciously posted.I am not one to try to weasel out of something. I accept
responsibility for my mistakes and this is just one of things
I am chalking up to experience. The kicker is that I don't
typically roof and thought it would be a nice project. Since I
live here I wanted to do it. Anyways, I'm going to be up front and try to reason with him and
suggest that he meet me half way. If not...well, I won't make a big deal.Guess what I'm going to be doing tomorrow? :)Again, thanks for your insight.Richard
ive always heard that overlaying would void shingle warranty
This particular job was quick barn cover up, the shingles will still out last the stucture. And as said earlier,in another thread...the warranty is about as good as the wrapper on the bundle in the real world.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Just finished a custom fence job and while I was there the roofer was replacing a 3yr old Owens Corning roof that was bubbling up.OC warranty paid in full for the original roof price but material had gone up enough to drive the price up an extra 1000 bucks.This home owner has to be the most nuerotic person I have ever met, he blows the leaves off the roof everyday.
ANDYSZ2 I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
and the granuals...
and tears the roof up by walking on it...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
and U thought I was anal...
;)
ROAR!!!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
he's anal..
yur anal-litic....
yur secret is safe here...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
maybe a distant relative or sumptin...
no worries either...
I won't tell anyone unless you spit it out first
;)
;)
;)
ok...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I got stuck with tearing off 5-6 layers once when I had bid it for two.
Still cost the customer the same. Like yiou, I agreed to tear off the old and instal the new for a price. extras unsually involve structural rot in sheathing or lumber, niot the tearoff work.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Don't feel too bad. You ain't the first one to do that and you sure won't be the last one. It's called a "tuition payment". Suck it up and do what's right instead of trying twist words around to CYA. Now you know to dig a little deeper while estimating jobs and maybe word your contracts a little better. Welcome to the big time... now git strippin'.
Welcome to contracting. More disturbing is that the roof is sagging with 2 layers. Proper roof framing is set to take 3 layers.
Sometimes you just bid things wrong. You look up at the roof after a few hours and realize that this is going to take 3 or 4 times longer than you thought. It is depressing at first but don't get discouraged, that will only rob you of time. Get mad (at yourself) and attack the roof. You got to get to the next job so you can make some money. Start an hour earlier, work two hours later and eat lunch while you are working.
My first contracting job years ago was a roof job. My brother hurt his back, another guy got thrown in jail on the weekend and this 17 yr old kid was going to help me but I decided not to use him because of legal issues. I lost about 15 pounds in a week.
You already sold your butt as the stunt driver said. Now finishing the job is all thats left.
Tim
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Tim, like your new logo.
I know the guy you're looking for too.
Joe H