I am in the painting stage of finishing a kitchen & dining room remodel. The floor is 30 year old ten inch wide yellow pine stained with Minwax Ipswich Pine. The base moulding is standard Lowes 5 inch colonial and is painted with Benjamin Moore November Rain semi-gloss. What are the rules for finishing shoe moulding? Should I paint it the same as the base or stain it the same as the flooring. Thanks in advance. Jim B.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
From durability to energy efficiency, continuous exterior insulation is an accessbile approach to a high-performance wall.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
it's a personal choice.
imo, it's part of the base, so it gets finished the same as the base.
carpenter in transition
that's right - paint it like the base.
I agree with Tim. It's not part of the floor - treat it as part of the base. I'm sure that somewhere someone did both, I've never seen it treated as floor.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Thanks guys - appreciate the feedback. Paint it, I will.
There's really no right or wrong, I've seen both but I always paint mine, it's by far the typical way and I think it looks better... Buic
the real 100% professional way to re-finish a floor is to remove the shoe and re-install after finishing, so I have to think it should be treated as base not floor.
I agree with most here...finish to match base.
I have see some horrendous floor/wall junctions where the shoe matched the floor. Does not look good in my opinion.
Just my two cents :)
I went through the same decision process when I had my living room and dining room floors refinished. From the informal poll I took, it seems to be a regional thing. A friend who's from Boston stains the shoe to match the floor. She said that way you don't have to worry about caulking the crack between the shoe and the base moulding.
I asked my floor refinisher what his experience was and he said that around here (New Jersey) usually the shoe matches the base moulding. The only time he had seen it done to match the floor was for a client who was from Boston.
I painted mine to match the base moulding because that's the way it was in the rest of the house.
I've spent most of my life in New England, & you are right - we usually do it to match the floor. But you should do it whatever way looks better to you, as you will be living with it.
It's always been part of the base board, but them Bostonians are differenbt in lotsa ways.There should not ever be a crack between shoe and base anyway, so I do't know what that comment refers to.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"She said that way you don't have to worry about caulking the crack between the shoe and the base moulding. "
but that's what the shoe is there for in the first place ... to hide the crack between the base and the floor.
what she really needs is another piece of smaller trim ... shoe for the shoe ... to hide that crack ...
'cept now ya have yet another ... smaller crack to deal with.
so ... now we need yet one more layer of mini trim ... shoe shoe for the shoe ...
U know ... to hide that small crack ...
uh oh.
I can see where this is going ...
btw ... tell yer friend she's nuts!
caulking the shoe to the floor ...
freaking people ....
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
My wife is from Rhode Island, I'm from Ohio and we live in Virginia. Most of the rhode island homes I have been in have the shoe stained and in the Toledo area where I grew up, most homes had the shoe painted. The old plantation homes in Virginia have it painted and the new homes in Northern Va just have unfinished oak shoe on top of oak hardwood floors. Hence my confusion.
I ended up purchasing the composite shoe moulding from Home Depot and have it installed and painted to match the base moulding. First time I have used the composite or plastic wood and I am sold on it. Only needed one coat of paint to match and no sanding was needed. Looks great. Thanks to all.
Posted the Q at 11 AM today and is done later the same day. That's what I like - people who don't screw around and get the job done...
She wasn't talking about the crack between the shoe moulding and the floor. It was the crack between the shoe and the baseboard. Maybe a really good carpenter can get that quarter-round shoe moulding tight against the baseboard, but in my house (old house with uneven floors and walls) there was sometimes a tiny crack that showed if the base and the shoe moulding were painted white. That crack had to be caulked before the moulding and the quarter round could be painted. If the quarter round was the same dark stain as the floor, no one would have noticed that tiny crack between the quarter round and the baseboard.Does that make more sense? No, she was not talking about caulking the crack between the quarter round and the floor...that would be silly.:)
No, it still doesn't make sense. I would have to go way out of my way and try hard to create a crack there that needs caulk - and I knew which crack you were talking about.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Is it possible that shoe mold is often painted in older homes as it has probably gotten boogered by previous paint jobs?
No - it is because by definition and placement it is a part of the trim.Study the history and orientation of all trim parts and see for yourself. Gary Katz book doesa good job of explaining The only thing I have seen booger cove is a vacumn head
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
regardless of the origin, I feel the shoe hels "plant" the wall and gives it a more solid look. I paint my shoes seprately, shoot it on tight , then fill the tiny holes and final paint it without need for cutting in or tape.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
I don't know how to explain it. Since there are two pieces of wood, the base-board and the quarter-round shoe moulding, there's sometimes a teeny-tiny gap along the top seam where the quarter round meets the baseboard. It's not a big crack, and it might get filled in when you paint it without caulking the seam. If the two pieces were not both painted white you'd probably never notice it. But if it's there, it looks like a dark line on the white trim. So I think it looks better if that seam is caulked before it's painted so the whole baseboard looks seamless. I caulked the seam where the top of the baseboard meets the wall too. Maybe because I have old plaster walls, I had to caulk any seam where any trim was nailed to the wall...the crown moulding, door and window moulding...everything.Maybe I'm too fussy? Doesn't everyone do this? How come when I run spell check, it gives me a choice of "molding" or "mouldings". Why is there a "u" in the plural but not the singular?
I see. paint would fill that small shadiow line on my jobs.I use many olde world spellings, thus the u in mouldings. you can see it when I talk about colour too.
I think this comes from a parochial school clessical base for my education re-infiorced by having read many historical documents - you know, the kind where s's and f's are nearly indistinguishable and thees and thous trip all over one another. People notice the influence when I write them lettres too.take a dictionary and flip through it and see the origins/etimology of the words and how many had lettres dropped and transposed as the english language stabilised and standardized
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I understand your question. I've run a mile or two of shoe, and have yet to ever see all of it lay perfectly flat to anything.. .lot of reasons: base and flooring aren't perpendicular, some shoe is milled with an oblique back, the walls are wavy, the floor is wavy, the floor wasn't sanded fight up to the base, the shoe looks like a meandering brook...whatever. So you've got a choice, run the shoe as tightly as possible to the base, or, as tightly as possible to the floor. With painted base and shoe, we always leave the gap to the base. Every painter I know expects to, and does, caulks the shoe to the base. Most jobs, even if we could get the joint tight, it would take a nail every 6". That's a lotta fun when it's time to refinish the floor, eh? Not to mention puttying...So, don't worry, you're not being too picky...and, don't forget to shoe shoe sheeboogie<G> "what's in a name?" d'oh!
Rough guess - What percentage of the shoe you install is destined to be painted?
100% on painted base. Brightwork gets brightwork shoe. I've probably done 5 whole house jobs in the past 10 years. Usually the floor finishers poly it, then we get to put it in. Whoo whoo! Last house, the floor guys were supposed to put it in. We skeedaddled before they changed their minds. Cabinetry gets shoe to match, with the painted coped in, or vicee vercee if the painted is taller.Now, when's the shoe going down on that tile in your pic...don't make me come over there <G> "what's in a name?" d'oh!
>> Brightwork gets brightwork shoe. << Sorry - not sure what you mean by that... when you say brightwork you mean stain grade work?
>> I've probably done 5 whole house jobs in the past 10 years. << You mean 5 houses of "britework" or just 5 whole house trim-outs in general? I thought you were (among other things) a new construction trim guy...
well i was keeping quiet, but now that the cat's out of the bag, i have to agree with sharpeblade- no offense intended here also, but the shoe stopping midway in the door is awkward to me. regardless of color, when an architectural, 3-D element suddenly stops like that, it is aesthetically illogical, IMO. if you are going to change in the middle like that, i'd have at least continued painted shoe over the tile. better yet, i'd have had painted shoe all around.
OK - I agree that the transition from the marble to the wood didn't look so good. So, I went ahead and ripped out the marble, cased the arched opening, installed a new wood floor and repainted everything. Here is the after pic.
c'mon now Matt, I didn't get to see the original already. Leave it up. Maybe somebody will like it
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Can I have the marble? What in the gosh darn golly have you done to Rez?
Yup - I have old, wavy plaster walls too, & yup, I caulk everything, too -
And no, I don't think it's too picky, I think it's just right!
i have never seen shoe stained to match floor, and i can't imagine it would "look right".
it'd be, like, "whoa! the floor is crawling up the walls to eat us!"i agree that the floor is on one and only one plane, and structurally, the shoe is part of the molding on another plane and visually should sit ontop of the floor, and not appear to "sink" into it.i know what some of you are talking about, that shoe is in cheap homes to cover mistakes. but here in memphis, it's standard in all older homes, definitely the nicer ones. the 2 small houses we own are ca. 1925 and 1935 craftsman style, and there's shoe on the base in every room. i have removed all the shoe in the house where i am currently refinishing the floors (i will paint it to match base before reinstalling it, then attach and touch-up paint as needed. IMO, this is quicker than having to be careful where it meets the floor, and always looks crisper). i have noticed sinc removing the shoe that there are big ol' gaps -- the floor stops well short of the walls (though the shoe hides it). were many older homes built cutting it so close? i mean, the gaps are big enough in some places where i can glimpse under the house, i'm considering shooting some canned foam in there.
Edited 11/11/2005 1:17 am ET by msm
Must be a regional thing - I did some checking around. There is a lot of new construction around here. All site finish hardwood floor I found had stained molding. One prefinished had painted. See attached pic from my house.
Edited 11/12/2005 3:26 pm ET by Matt
No offense, but looks a bit weird ending there at the tile line.
Was there no way to avoid the shoe there?
So what would be normal to you ? Hardwood with no shoe or tile with shoe?(regardless of wheather it is painted or not). Or, how would you have done it? - ended the shoe at the base corner with a butt cutt? ;-)
To tell you the truth though, I did it 5 years ago when I built the house and had about 100 things on my plate and probably didn't think twide about it. I'd say it was fine then and it's fine now.
I am a proponent of no shoe, except in the most out of whack situations, like old saggy houses or very difficult remodels. In most cases I've seen it used it was the easy way out.
I was wondering why in this case you chose to add one over the HW? Seems like newer construction and the floor is pretty flat. Floor looks great, but my candor comes out and I couldn't help notice that detail.
Not trying to be difficult, just wanted to see your perspective. I'll be quiet next time
:->)
No prob - here, shoe molding is standard for new construction for hardwood, laminate, and vinyl floors. Not in carpeted or tile areas though.
Edited 11/11/2005 10:48 pm ET by Matt
I was going to get on the painted shoe bandwagon until I saw the picture below:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a54/hannah8/Rush01.jpg
View Image
Edited 11/11/2005 10:48 pm ET by IdahoDon
anytime i think i'm getting too anal, i'm going to look at that pic. awesome."the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. one should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless and yet be determined to make them otherwise."- f. scott fitzgerald
so U gonna fix that piece that's cut backwards and missing the return?
I'd have to move ... little things like that drive me nuts.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Its part of the moulding....treat it as such.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
As true master carpenter, I abhor any base boarding job that is not scribed so tightly to the flooring that it would ever even need shoe moulding. Shoe moulding is only making up for corners cut in the rest of the building process...nahhhh, to hell with shoe, on our jobs, we just cut the end off a tube of Big Stretch and run with it, looks just like shoe if it's done right... ha. Sorry, just wrapped a long job, last 3 days (yeah thee) running three different flavors (maple, cherry, painted pine) and six different sizes of shoe (2 different runs of maple, 3 different runs of pine, and then the cherry, of course)...what ever happened to wall to wall shag carpet? "what's in a name?" d'oh!
As far as I know.... shoe mold is pretty much required around cabs...
BTW - what was a "master carpenter" doing installing all that shoe anyway... ;-) If you even allowed it on your job, I woulda thought hat would be a helpers task ;-)
Also, BTW: different kinds of shoe mold shouldn't be a problem anyway... It was all painted anyway... Right?
Edited 11/9/2005 6:21 pm ET by Matt
The way some of these cabinets were installed, it was lucky the shoe covered the gap;-0Got two new helpers, they manage to get the work done of minus 1, third time's the charm though, right, ha.Nah, different kinds of shoe shouldn't be a problem, insert my stage name here, buddy. LOLPainted pine on all the base, brightwork at all the cabinets, and every one had a different profile and height. Then try running it where tile meets maple floor at wall corners (some at 45°), and the Schulter transition strip bevels down 1/4" inch Eiiii Yiiii Freakin' Yiiii...I know I ain't no master carp, they have no idea where their kneepads are, %-)At least the weather was great to cut out on the garage apron I:< wahhh, wahhh, wahhh "what's in a name?" d'oh!
LOL - You are too funny!!! It has been beautifl lately hasen't it? Yesterday I was putting some numbers on 2 houses and thinking how sweeeeet it is... House numbers is always a celebration for me anyway...
you are right of course - the only times I've seen shoe molding is on economy or midprice houses or DIY
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Doode, I was kidding, wasn't I? "what's in a name?" d'oh!
Ah yes... the joy of BT - diversity... :-)
STAIN IT TO MATCH THE WOOD FLOOR!!!! Here is why: When you paint shoe molding it gets all banged up in 3 or 4 years - looks like cr@p. I think a lot of the wear and tear happens during cleaning of the floor. Plus it shows what ever dirt accumilates. Stain it and it wears much better and doesn't show the dings and dirt. Stain, then install, then putty and clearcoat at same time as floor. The only time I paint shoe mold is on really cheap houses where I don't want to buy the stain grade, or if the cabinets are white and the floor is a light color too. Also, on really cheap houses with brown cabinets I'll sometimes have the painters stain pine shoe for up next to the cabinets. I will say though that it is much easier to go the paint route.
Edited 11/9/2005 6:02 pm ET by Matt