here are some photos of a house im think’n of lifting…or should i just level it.e.i. mow it down
i plan on changing the roof this summer too..
the foundation is bad…i guess? it has been shimmed over the years in some places 1 1/2 inches …it has a cyinder block style foundation that has not been filled with concrete..
the local lifter says 10 grand if i do the exavating and pour the concrete…seems high?
the house sits on a good piece of land ..is it worth it of should i just dry pack the gaps and troul a “patch over it”..
thanks for the imput
tj
Replies
To say that the foundation is bad is kind-of an understatement!
Let's see, you've got to replace the foundation, you're going to change the roof (as opposed to just reshingling?) which means messing with a lot of the interior walls & ceilings. What's left? I don't know what costs are like where you are but it sounds to me more like a call for a dozer than one for a carpenter. Plus, the end result will be what you want as opposed to some sort of compromise between what exists and what you want.
Good Luck,
BILL
What are the footers like under the block and how deep is the frostline in your area? Do the footers go deep enough? Are the soil conditions such that the footers aren't properly supported? I guess there is defintely a footer problem?
Is the crawlspace lower than, say 18"? Are there moisture problems under the house? Ie - would the house benefit from being higher?
What about realestate values in your area? Are they such that you might easily recoup investments in these major home improvements, or is the housing market such that the house might not be worth much more even with significant improvements? Looks like it might be near the beach?
yea the crawl space is under 18 inches..i dont have a moisture problem ,but the footing is only 7 1/4 wide 3 1/2 thick...not frost line here at the beach..the sand here compacts like concrete..and because of septic setbacks if i was to doze it i would be basicly putting up the same size house..on the same footprint..the only place i can build is out front...which can be tricky because as of now the road sit quite a bit higher than the house..the proptery is worth 320 ..i paid 320 for the house and proptery..it sets in a very desireable area on the north coast of oregon..dead end street 1 block from the beach.so i should lift it? or doze it ...the house was built in 1942 its sound ...
I'm no remodeler, I do new houses, so I'll leave the how-to details to the pros in that area. From your descritions though it sounds like the root of the problems are the footers, and it also sounds like you could easily get back the kind of money you are talking about putting into it. In some economys doing major makeovers could be a waste but that doesn't sound like your case. Here, but more on the cost, depending on the location, a house like you describe could be worth a half mil so doing the work would be a no brainer (I hate that term :-).
10 grand is what I paid to lift my house. I'd pay that again, I'd never lift a house myself. They lifted it high enough for us to walk upright underneath the floor joists and drive a small tractor underneath. It made the concrete work, carpentry repairs, wiring, plumbing very easy. From the look of your place I'm guessing there's a very minimal crawl space, and that doing any work would be miserable. When you're done you probably will not want to lower it all the way, so leave some money for new stairs and whatnot.
One problem: a house on cribs is a curiousity and everyone will stop by and talk to you. Makes it hard to get anything done...
ha yea ....lots of neighbors ive never even talked to (pretty snobby area) wanted to know what i was digging..how big was your house...did they do the foundation? did you have dry wall cracks?could you live in it on cribbing?thanks
tj
They just did the lift, I did everything else. You can probably stay in it while it's up, but you have to do a temporary connect of the water/sewer/power/gas. We got a few drywall cracks, nothing major at all.
how big was your house...how many storys? did it already have a crappy foundation? post and peir?thanks tj
Approx. 30x40, single story, and it was on a post and pier foundation about 18" max above grade. The posts were fir 6x6 and the piers were flat fieldstones. My insurance company gave me a year's policy but told me to get it taken care of, and the roof too. It was the proverbial cheapest house in a good neighborhood. Just be aware of all the exterior carpentry that may become necessary if you strip the house enough to do a lift.
The second set of pics from the crawl indicate pretty marginal consturction to start with - those look like some serioously overspanned 2x6s
I'd take a hard look at the whole house and its detailing in making the decision.
A gem on a crappy foundation might be worth it.
A lifted POS on a strong foundation will still be a POS
The "War on Terrorism" has failed - in part by narrowing our options to only the option of last resort.
I propose we start a worldwide Partnership Against Terror, in which the reasonable people of the world work together to oppose terrorism and the conditions which lead people to that desperate condition.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all people are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
Here's the house I'm about to lift. If the winter is mild we'll do it soon, otherwise this spring. I think it's worth it given it's what I would like to build anyway. I'm sure the majority of people would prefer to tear one like this down. Are you planning on selling the house after the lift?
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=69253.9
I can't see enough of the rest of the whole house condition to say whether to doze it or save it at all but I'll comment on jacking.
It is well worth it to the house mover to jack it up fair price - because of site access and insurance concerns. Also,it looks like the floor joists are spread way far apart - maybe four feet, which makes me assume other weaknesses in the framing.
but you could do it your self too. I jacked up a house like that about same size for 4-5 grand a few years ago. Funny thew way I ended up with it. The HO called for advice. He was a sort of a friend so I went by. He was wondering how would be the best way to repair some rotting floor joists at one rear corner because they were actually down in the ground near a bank by about 6-8". The front was up about 18"
I told him that if it were mine, I would just jack the thing up about two feet and replace all the piers. That way he'd have a better view ( this near shore too) and have the house away from the ground water. Remember now, I was just advising him what I'd do if it was mine.
He says, gret idea! When can you do it?
Groan...
but I knew his money was good and the site was a cool setting and it was August...so I spemnt a couple weeks there
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
driftwood,
Cheapest house in a good neighborhood? Excellant prospect for gain! Do a quick and dirty cost estimate.. tear down and haul away would cost?
new first floor (the only thing you could possibly save) add those two costs and compare building new to remodeling costs. Some savings there..
Now and this is critical, compare the selling price of that place with a new home to the selling price of it remodeled.. There ususally is a significant differance in what people are willing to pay fro an all new house compared to a remodel..
My gut tells me that you will be money ahead doing a tear down.. That way the stuff you don't see rotted or undersized stuff, load bearing walls in an awkward spot, weak plumbing or electrical etc.. won't jump out and surprise you..
Costs should all be known up front on new, rebuild you won't know untill you get much further into it..
i agree with the tear down scenario, i may well be proven wrong depending on circumstances but my gut also tells me tear down...especially 1 block from the beach in coastal oregon. its only a matter of time (and probably not much) before the tear down was well worth it!
those are 4x6 firs running the leangth of the house.. the floor is real 2"x12s laid flat..the house seems real solid..and like i said because of septic there aint much i can do to change the foot print...ive got 60k to work with thats it..the neighbors house was on the market for 800K its nice but not that nice ..i paid 320 for this house.its my first home if ever bought and the payments are scary..but ..and then theres that but..plus i have no where to live if i tear it down..and im on the waste not side of things ..thanks for alll your iput..im still freeked out
Well then, there's your answer. No way can you tear down your abode. I thought this was pure investment stock.Did you post photos of this when considering purcchase a ouple months ago? Either they are familiar or I'm having a deja vue moment
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
i posted phots of then inside ....how to take care of this trail home look.. i purchased the house bucause i had lived in it (rented) for 3 years and fell inlove with the location..many of the local builder were salivating at the mouth over this proptery..
but because i lived there i got the first dibs..and i thanked a local millionire for giv'n me a chance here..get a foot in the door.here are some photos of the roof line inside..(reason for a new roof) thanks
t
o here are the photos
try again
Normally I'd agree on thaat but my thinking from here is that many restricted properties in shorelands lose grandfathering when torn down. I don't know whaat he faces there.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Driftwood;
Are you in Cannon Beach?
Regardless of seaside location you Dozing it is not as simple as Dozing a little house on the prairie somewhere. Coastal Dozing can be fraught with peril, do your research, knock on some local doors that look like they have done the same thing, find out if you can just leave one wall up and doze the rest. Get to know your immediate neighbors and do some serious A** kissing, lift or doze, you will want to do it without lawsuits or nastiness from the neighbors.
Coastal foundations were typically mixed with beach sand, without the benefit of a fresh water rinse, the salt content over time weakens the foundation, and salt draws more moisture. Your existing foundation could fail under the additional weight of a lift and reno.
The good news? you are at the beach, no matter how much you spend, over time you will reap a substantial reward. Resort properties done well are always a good investment, whether in the Mountains or on the Coast.
Good luck, and post the result.
WW ( Been there, done that, got sued, still made $)
even better ...i live in gearhart...sorry for the slow responce i just learned how to find old post..i got the bid 9300 bucks ...to lift and set back down..
i figured the guy who is going to lift the house(only one i could find) is driving a hummer i can do this job myself... so going to try to rent the pumps and steel and i found a huge pile of RR ties for cribbing...it can be that hardthe neighbor are never home EVER a couple times a year so they can piss off..i actually only meet 2 of them and there totally cool ,,never seen anyone else..i wont doze it the house is solid and flat..i will keep ya posted with pics when i find the gear...i.e. beems/and pumps..anybody know where to get these in portland oregon?
I love your enthusiasm man, but for heaven's sake think this through. I've attended the school of no fear on several occasions and the tuition almost cost me my life. Some tasks are better left to those who do them day in and day out.
If you're that determined, maybe your local lifter will let you pull some weekends or vacation time w/ his crew to get a better feel for what an enormous undertaking this actually is.
Good Luck.
driftwood,
I live over the hills east of you in the valley.
Done several lifts myself and hired several. Don't know who you contacted but try "RainBow" out of the Salem area, great guy, reasonable pricing. Stay away from the big company out of Clackamas.
Yes you can live in it while the work is being done, temporary hookups for everything.
I would say the 10 g. is pretty good price. You can certainly do it cheaper but I gotta say that having someone else do the lift (assuming they do know what they are doing) is worth it. Those pros can lift it without any sign inside of it ever have been done as long as it started out reasonably level and true. Just having them have the liability is a huge issue. Leaves you 50 g. to do what you are good at and experienced at. Foundation shouldn't cost more than 3 g. even hired out.
Was the place built in one piece or added onto ? Easiest if all the same building from the start.
I know one of the county inspectors out there quite well, I will ask him to give me any info on good guys for the lift if he knows of any.
May take a few days though.
driftwood,
Do Not Use the RR ties without careful thought and inspection.!!
If you found a pile of them it is because they were pulled from use because they needed to be replaced because they wouldn't take the weight.
The pros use the best grade lumber they can find for good reason, they want to live thru the experience.
Try asking the lifter if there is anything you could do to help out that would reduce the price. (Prep work , disconnection , re-connects any thing at all.) I saved several thou. on one lift doing that .
There was a thread here some years ago where a guy was doing an "extreme house makeover" and it ended up being a poster child of how NOT to do your lift. Actually it wasn't a lift, just a complete foundation removal from under part of an existing house so a basement could be but in. The house was supported by 20 or 30 vertical 2x4s!!! That poor guy got so much major verbal abuse from us here at BT that I was surprised he stuck around. I think his project came out OK though, and as it turned out he was a pretty good sport about the whole thing. Last of his threads that I remember I think he wanted to run his plumbing vent stacks out the side of the gable end!!! Anyway, you at least have the word cribbing in your vocabulary so I'd say you are worlds ahead.
Good luck with your project...
hello,well you know there's no logic in love and I know what you mean by saying you love the location.So,since you will need a proper footing,say 6" thick,18" wide,why not brace the joists 2 ft.in from the perimeter along one wall and pour a new one.Have you considered a pressure treated foundation.That way you can do one side at a time.Or is there room to build a foundation beside the house,then slide it over.If it's built on loose soil/sand,I would avoid going much deeper than the existing footing depth.Building brand new would be great but it's money upfront and all at once.Sweat equity and time spent with a shovel gives you a chance to figure out the next step.If the roof isn't leaking or about to fly away with the next major storm,leave it alone for now and get with the foundation.Also if the cinder blocks are plumb you could look into fibrated cement parging,but if I understood correctly,those footings are way scant.Good luck and if worse comes to worst,paint the thing in dayglo colours and your neighbours will buy you out just to improve their views.
....ii actually have a real good friend that lifted 2 houses in alaska...and put new foundations under them...and he is willing to give a hand ,if i help him with his house..really how hard can it be ...its not a huge house at all..i just have to find the steel ..i have the mini excavator and a electric winch for pulling them under.....yea those ties were replaced with concrete in portland i bet i can find 150 good ones thanks for the advise..one thing i know i have to worry about is drift when lifting(keeping is going strait up) ( so you set a couple corner plum pins)..having the right jacks to lift all at once is also a good thing power is supplied from above... septic and water those are real simple..im working on the hardest sand ...the kind you drive on .i will compact the new footing area..if those guys can do it ..i certainly can IF i can find the jack rental....or i bet i could just buy the bottle jacks (airpowered hydraulic)...and still be ahead of the game..i will keep you all posted
thanks for the insite
tj
Try Oregon Steel for beams...
The house movers control "drift" as you call it by having balancing valves and gauges off a central pumping system. They also have quick disconnect hydraulics and check valves at each lift point.The operator watches the pressure to each line and jack that way they get the even lift and don't break things up.
Just caught this comment of yours..
""really how hard can it be ""
Actually Da** hard and dangerous, go very slow, crib often , Every yr somebody dies from thinking just what your comment says about this type work. Last year in Portland is one instance I remember .
Edited 1/8/2007 12:09 am ET by dovetail97128
Driftwood;
Good for you, I admire your enthusiasm, 99% of the time when I went ahead with a project that 80% were against I was right and made money, that money went ahead to make more money, but the more you have the more risk averse you get. Post some pics and let us all know how this turns out. Good luck.WW
ok here it is.... its done,and it totally turned out bitch'n and was easy at that...just took a little planning ,time , and patentsall in all it took me 4 weeks to complete by myself..
were are your friends when you need them to use the D-1 or or what i call a shovel..
driftwood, Nicely done! Bravo!"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Man, that's just a super success.
Congratulations and everything!
Forrest
I remember when you posted before. Thanks for the update. When it's all done give us a before and after pic, and if you don't mind me getting personal - give us the final expensed total.
Nice Job! It's very satisfying seeing the house recycled rather than being hauled off to the landfill.
Thanks for the update!
i will break down the total cost ...no problemexcavation was free, for i traded work with a buddyconcrete 19 yards total @ 100/yrd.....1900.00
cribbing i got on creigs list .....................30.00
form panles i traded work for and ended up taking it in the rear on that deal.......
pump truck for the crete .......................700.00
87 cubic yards sand ................................66.00(the rock place screwed up on a saturday)
footer materials ...rebar, panel clips, green plate
holdowns,nails sill seal ................. 1000.00
paid a friend for his 2 days of work. 400.00 im guessing the total all said in done.......$4600.00 not counting my time ..
i havent got the bill for the rented steel beams ...maybe thay forgot about it?a lot cheeper than the 20000 dollar bit i got from the local house lifter
ddriftwood,
Very tidy , and nice savings. Do have a question, how the heck did you get away with a single anchor bolt at the corner of the foundation in "done" pic.? Within 12" of ends of sill plates by code. I want to know the secret ;-)"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
What an incredible job you did. I missed the original comments, but why you wanted to raise the house i the first place? My wife would like us to raise the house for two reasons, (1) is lower than the sidewalt and when it rains, it is a mess. Secondly, she would love to have a wrap around polch patio. The house foundation is inched from the ground. The proble is our house has a cement slab. Can it be lifted? It is one story house.
If you were to give an idea, what would be the cost a a work like this done by professional?
Thanks, and congratulation for a job well done. Sam
Driftwood, This is for you I believe. Here is the message you are replying to:
From: handy@home 1:19 pm
To: dovetail97128
What an incredible job you did. I missed the original comments, but why you wanted to raise the house i the first place? My wife would like us to raise the house for two reasons, (1) is lower than the sidewalt and when it rains, it is a mess. Secondly, she would love to have a wrap around polch patio. The house foundation is inched from the ground. The proble is our house has a cement slab. Can it be lifted? It is one story house.If you were to give an idea, what would be the cost a a work like this done by professional?Thanks, and congratulation for a job well done. Sam
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
the first reason was that the house was 18 inches lower than the street...causing a huge puddle in my drive with the oregon coastal rains...even though the ground is pure lovly sand it would take hours up to 10 before the puddle sank in the ground..remember the yard is sand making for very easy digging...which i did alot of by hand
if it were any other type of soil i would not be into it 1 bittotal cost for a pro to do this work was 20K pretty standard...just the lift was 14K
those house lifter can only do a few jobs a year because of insurance reasons
if they do more than i think 7 there insurance goes way through the roof..
yeah, the one day my framing buddy who has built many homes comes over to give a hand (after the cement was poured)...he says " i'll set the anchor bolts"..i sas O.k.and i go in polishing up ...after cleanup and a couple beers i walk around and F#&K im screwed ...that wasnt the only corner that was screwed up...2 of the plate butt joints had anchors no where near them...o i was pissed.. so i say lets seter down ..i didnt need a underdeck inspection as long as its better than it was its good to go for a remodel..the seceret to getting away without anchor bolts...talk fishing to the inspector..haha JKhope the inspector isnt reading
I built the chimney after my hoeing in the fall, before a fire became necessary for warmth, doing my cooking in the meanwhile out of doors on the ground, early in the morning: which mode I still think is in some respects more convenient and agreeable than the usual one. -Thoreau's Walden