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Discussion Forum

shower lights

bigbossman | Posted in General Discussion on March 20, 2007 03:41am

Are the canister ceiling lights that are put in a bathroom different than other areas of the house? I would like a light in my shower area but was wondering what type of canister light would be necessary because of the water area in the bath area?

 

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  1. User avater
    McDesign | Mar 20, 2007 03:48am | #1

    Rather than cannister, I've used the "jelly jar" type of exterior lamp, mounted on the walls around the shower.  Our master shower has (4) of them on a dimmer; one on each side of the skylight shaft.  I've since copied that on several others, with or without a skylight.

    Good things is thery are about $7-8 each.

    I'd think a cannister over a shower would have to be sealed (and expensive)

    Forrest

  2. WNYguy | Mar 20, 2007 03:52am | #2

    A few years ago I had the same question when putting in a new shower.  The answer is, yes, there are special "wet location" recessed light fixtures especially for showers.  Actually, I found that the "trim kit" was what was rated for shower use; the can itself was standard.

    But I installed standard low-voltage halogen cans and trim, as I didn't like the appearance of the "wet location" trim.  There's an 8-foot ceiling, and there's no direct water spray toward the ceiling.  Three years later, and there's been no problems.

    I installed three cans in the shower; one centered, and two that wash light down the "front" wall.

    I'm sure someone with more knowledge will weigh in on this.

    Allen



    Edited 3/19/2007 8:52 pm ET by WNYguy

  3. WNYguy | Mar 20, 2007 04:03am | #3

    I see Forrest has given you some good advice.  That $8 figure especially sounds great!

    Here's a shot of two of the low-voltage halogen fixtures I installed; the third one is centered overhead (3ft x 6ft shower):

    View Image

    Allen

    1. vintage1 | Apr 07, 2007 02:57pm | #13

      WNYguy,

      It looks like your lights are flush mount, correct?

      Do you know who mfg'd them or have an online source for them?

      They might be just what I need for a shower I am working on.

       

      Thanks.

      1. WNYguy | Apr 07, 2007 10:36pm | #17

        I think my fixtures were identical to the ones PaulWaterloo has pictured in post 87392.11 .  Three-inch low-voltage.  I picked mine up at Home Depot, but they didn't stock the shower trim kit.  I looked online for the trim kit, but what I found was really pricey; so I used the standard black baffle with the white plastic ring that's just barely proud of the ceiling.

        The ceiling is 8 ft, there's a fan in the shower that pulls out excess moisture, and the lights are on a GFCI circuit.  Down the road I might install the moisture-proof trim kit, but I prefer the recessed look with the black baffle.

        That white plastic ring, BTW, is the only plastic showing anywhere in that bathroom (except for the light switch toggles and receptacles).  For the fan, I threw out the plastic cover and used a cast iron grate (coated with epoxy and painted flat black).

        Anyway, check the online sources cited in those previous posts.

        Allen

        1. vintage1 | Apr 09, 2007 09:02pm | #18

          WNY,

          Thanks for the reply. 

          I looked at your pics again and it seems they are recessed can lights.  Originally, I thought they were a low profile flush mount. 

          I have a shower situation where we have ductwork above the shower ceiling and so we are unable to do a trad. recessed can light w/ sealed trim.  I am looking for a low profile (2-3" off the ceiling) light fixture that will flush mount to the ceiling.  It also has to be rated for moisture.  

          1. bigbossman | Apr 16, 2007 04:22am | #19

            Since I have to put lights in above my tub/shower area and I live on the 2nd floor with a flat roof above me am I going to have to find a way to insulate the ceiling?

            I currently have a dropped ceiling that is going to be eliminated and new plaster ceiling going in. If i dont put insulation in the ceiling will the lights have a problem with the hot and cold of the Chicago summer and winters? And without insulation is there a proper canister to look for? I know I need the water sealed light cover but I want the housing to be correct. Any ideas?

             

  4. User avater
    DDay | Mar 20, 2007 04:11am | #4

    This is the best brand of recessed lights I've seen. Much better than the Halo's and that crowd. The first link is thier recessed lights and the second is some of the trim, the ones that are available for IC cans. Like the other poster said, the rough in is the same, its just a sealed trim to keep the moisture out.

    http://www.lightolier.com/index.jsp?DCATREL=1941&CATREL_ID=1945&CAT_ID=1499&BLK=N&CAT_NAME=Lytecaster&PARREL_ID=1941&A=254&B=363&C=365

    http://www.lightolier.com/index.jsp?CATREL_ID=2076&CAT_ID=1043&BLK=N&CAT_NAME=Wet+Location+Reflector+Trims&PARREL_ID=2068&A=254&B=363&C=365

    1. RobWes | Mar 20, 2007 05:35am | #5

      The lens is sealed with a rubber gasket to the trim ring.

      They work good and are rated for wet location.

  5. User avater
    Mongo | Mar 20, 2007 05:42am | #6

    While I'd recommend you always install air-tight and IC-rated cans, for wet locations it's pretty much what the other kids have told you.

    It's all in the trim kit.

    1. User avater
      DDay | Mar 20, 2007 05:45am | #7

      Most people don't know about the AirSeal can's, and its a shame. Those cans on cold ceilings are a major loss of heating and cooling. That should make it into the codes at some point, I mean what the point of insulation R values when you put in dozens of leaky cans in the ceiling.

      1. bigbossman | Apr 07, 2007 03:20am | #8

        You bring up an excellent point. What type of insulation should be used when remodeling a bathroom? Is there something different in the shower area than in the rest of the walls? I know we are supposed to insulate under the tub as well but not sure what to use there either. Do I need to Insulate the ceiling as well? What R value do I look for or type?

        When I do the green board and plasterboard in the bath is there a standard thickness that is installed?

        Thanks again for all the help.

        1. User avater
          DDay | Apr 07, 2007 03:34am | #9

          The best type of insulation is spray foam like icynene but if your just doing a small area like a bathroom, that could be very expensive vs. fiberglass batts. Use the maxium R value insulation for your framing material. The higher the R value, the better it insulates, so use the highest you can without it being crushed down. Where you insulate depends on where the bathroom is. If it is on the second floor and you have a properly vented attic that is cold in the winter and warm in the summer then the ceiling needs to be insulated to keep in the heat and a/c, the floor would be optional since the space underneath is heated and cooled. If you did put it in, its just there as a sound blanket. You get the point.For the board questions, check out schluter, i.e. kerdi membrane. Do a search here and google it and check out johnbride.com The board question depending what you are doing for a shower, fiberglass, tile, etc.

  6. paulwaterloo1 | Apr 07, 2007 03:38am | #10

    The lighting in a shower must be GFI protected also.

    I just put some really nice 3" low voltage can lights in my shower.....with "wet space" trim kits.

     

    View Image

    They have the transformers built into the assembly. They were about $35 or $40 each from http://www.lightology.com, a really cool lighting store in Chicago.

    Here is the link to the product, scroll down and you'll see the trim kit, R3-409C (click on it), http://www.lightology.com/index.cfm/method-light.store_profile/sku-1220RS-R3499AT-003H1-00R3/dept-Recessed/szdept_label-

    Here they are installed......

     

    View Image

    I am done with cheap can lights. The extra $60 spent on each fixture and trim kit was really worth it....the 3" is very nice and I have dimmers on them, they are on their own circuit.

    1. User avater
      BillHartmann | Apr 07, 2007 02:49pm | #12

      "The lighting in a shower must be GFI protected also."The NEC does not require shower or tub lights to be GFCI protected. But they don't prohibit it either.Howewver, they do require you to follow the manufactures instructions.I know some fans do require GFCI protection. And it might be that some lights that do..
      .
      A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

      1. paulwaterloo1 | Apr 07, 2007 03:40pm | #14

        "The lighting in a shower must be GFI protected also."

        The NEC does not require shower or tub lights to be GFCI protected. But they don't prohibit it either.

         

        I looked at my code check book and it appears you are right. All bathroom receticles must be GFI and under Pool, Spa & Hydromassage Tub GFCI Requirements it states:

        Light fixtures <10 feet horiz unless > 5 feet vert from water (680.22B4)

        Existing fixtures okay <5 feet horizontal if > 5 feet vertical from water (680.22B3)

        So I made my shower lights GFI protected.....this way if I ever touch the ceiling when wet (maybe during an earthquake?) I won't die.

        :-)

        BTW, I don't do this for a living, so my advice is worth what you pay for it....nothing.

    2. DougU | Apr 07, 2007 05:15pm | #15

      Paul

      I like that shower ceiling that you got there - anymore pics of the whole room?

      Your fairly new here and you've posted some nice stuff, fill out your profile so that we at least have an idea of where you are, dont need your address or anything like that, CC # wont hurt though!

      Doug

      Edited 4/7/2007 10:16 am ET by DougU

      1. paulwaterloo1 | Apr 07, 2007 06:19pm | #16

        Thanks on the bathroom, I have just about finished everything.....got the 1/2" glass door in last week, took my first shower this week, it is heavenly!

        I am hanging towel racks today, I will post pics of everything when I am done.

        It's got all the bells and whistles.....including warmboard flooring (of course now I have to install a radiant floor heat system in my house), 4 lighting circuits, thermostatic controls for the shower, etc. Here's a teaser:

         

        View Image

        I am just a DIY'r that spends a lot of time on design and research and find it nice to do things the right way.

  7. cliffy | Apr 07, 2007 05:56am | #11

    We don't know where you are from so what I tell you may be meaningless.

    Pretty much every shower I've done in the last five years has included a pot light with a shower trim. The rubber gasket cover that the others have mentioned.

    The Electrical Safety Authority (electrical inspectors for the provice of Ontario) inspector checks to ensure that this light is powered by a GFCI.  My inspector has a story about some guy singing in the shower.

    Have a good day

    Cliffy

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