Replies

1. 
   Gene_Davis | Mar 14, 2006 06:12pm | #1

   Cannot tell your location from your profile, Craig.  Take the time to fill it out, so we know when you post in future.

   Location means a lot when it comes to available sources of supply, and design things that are climate and seismic related.

   If you have access to Schluter product through a good tile products distributor, you should consider the use of the Kerdi drain and Kerdi membrane for waterproofing your shower, its pan, and its curb.  Schluter also makes a preform pan for doing a base that can substitute for the mud.

1. 
   custombuilt | Mar 14, 2006 06:53pm | #2

   You can get the pvc membrane at any tile store, and maybe they even have it at HD....but i'm not sure on that

    

    

    When in doubt, get a bigger hammer!

1. 
   Gene_Davis | Mar 14, 2006 07:20pm | #3

   I'm referring to Schluter's Kerdi membrane, not plain old CPVC.

   Where Schluter products are available, most tilesetting contractors are using them, and it makes the CPVC pan liner obsolete.

   It also obsoletes CMU backer on walls, and feltpaper lining.  Kerdi over plain old sheetrock is what is used on everything here, up to the very highest of price levels and expectations.

   The situation is that Schluter products are not available everywhere.

2. 
   berferdt | Mar 14, 2006 08:18pm | #4

   A fast, though not inexpensive, pan system complete with curb is available and can be cut to fit. It's made of strofoam and you do need to use the vynil liner over it. It's available through tile shops. I think I've even seen it in Lowes.

1. 
   Gene_Davis | Mar 14, 2006 11:37pm | #8

   'A fast, though not inexpensive, pan system complete with curb is available and can be cut to fit. It's made of strofoam'

   Also available from Schluter, of course. 

   But watch out with these pre-forms.  Cutting to fit, other that very minor trimming, is a no-no, because by cutting you mess with the high edge.  Any kind of a preformed pan has a high level perimeter, and a pitch, everywhere, to the drain.  Cut in to make it smaller, and you make the cut edge lower, affecting sidewall tile layout.

1. 
   EricPaulson | Mar 15, 2006 12:04am | #9

   Thanks for pointing that out Gene, it's something I was curious about too.

   You can't cut a shower bed to fit because you will end up with one or two side being lower in dimension than the two that were not cut.

   And to the OP............I don't care what you have read or what "seminar" you have been to at HD; floating a mud shower and curb IS NOT a DIY project.

   Eric[email protected]

    

    

   It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been

    

    

    

1. 
   Craigabooey | Mar 15, 2006 03:15am | #10

   Well Im more than just an ambitious homeowner, I've been a carpenter all my life and have done more than a few bathrooms. Those bathrooms had tubs in them though. I just want the best system for a shower floor.  The shower floor is going to be 4 feet wide by 5' 6". I am going to do it myself no matter what anyone says so I was just wondering what everybody else is doing out there. A mud job is the way I'm leaning since that other product doesnt look like the pre made shower pans will fit.

1. 
   Gene_Davis | Mar 15, 2006 03:27am | #11

   Schluter's Kerdi membrane goes atop a mud base, and the Kerdi drain is installed when the base is made.

   Their foam preslope pans are only in fixed sizes, neither of which will work for you.

   You can watch one (shower, from start to finish) get built by downloading the video at Schluter's website.

    

2. 
   jeffwoodwork | Mar 15, 2006 03:28am | #12

   I'm kinda in the same spot.  If I do a mudpan I have a tilesetter that will help me.  I have also kicked around the idea of cultured marble.  Though I don't really care for the CM shower surround the pan can be custom made and the new colors are very close to Corain/Silestone and have a granite look to them.  So you can get your custom pan and drop it in then do whatever up the walls.

   Jeff

3. 
   EricPaulson | Mar 15, 2006 03:46am | #13

   Hey maybe I jumped the gun a bit.

   Just be careful and judicious.

   I know "tile" guys that are still incapable of floating a floor after 20 years of tile work.

   It's not real hard to do if yo study well, but it is REALLY easy to make a big mess out of.

   Good luck and ley us know if you need any more help.

   If you go to 30 ish x 60 ish you can get a preformed pan from Schluter.

   Eric[email protected]

    

    

   It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been

    

    

    

4. 
   McDesign | Mar 15, 2006 04:10am | #14

   70987.15 in reply to 70987.11 

   I have only done six mud bed, but they were for family or long-time clients, all still fine back to ten years.  It's straightforward, just tedious.

   Usually -  $25-$40 of PVC sheet from Lowes, $5 for the solvent cement, $40 for (8) bags of fiber-reinforced Sakrete, a $16 sub-drain assembly, and four 2x ripped to the diagonal taper, then some scrap to form a curb - or none, and drop the whole pan down.

   Piece o' cake!

   View Image

   Forrest

   Edited 3/14/2006 9:13 pm by McDesign

   
5. 
   custombuilt | Mar 15, 2006 06:26am | #16

   If you're determened to float it, then go to John Bridge's site and check out his how to stuff....its pretty good

    http://www.johnbridge.com

    

6. 
   notascrename | Mar 15, 2006 06:36am | #17

   Hey a' I gotta side with you. Been a gc for 30 plus years and have seen many a shower put in. Surely you've met a plumber you can ask what the foo about shower drains for thickset applications. My plumbers always get the drain and membrane at the plunbing supply where they buy all the rest of their supplies.I see the better tile installers remove any drywall up about 2 ft and replace w/durock, the durock the whole inside again. then they f/glass tape in thinset all the seams. I've seen them build curbs w/ styrofoam covered with the same f/glass-thi9nset system. they use 'bout 3 layers to make it nice and strong, then use straight thinset to tru up the lines. also seen seats done the same way. Have seen recessed soap/shampoo shelves done the same way. Can't say I've ever had a callback or problem related to any of these things. Go for it! Jim

7. 
   Shep | Mar 16, 2006 03:47am | #20

   It might be a regional thing, but the house at the Jersey shore I've been trimming has custom fiberglass pans. They also used fiberglass to waterproof some decks.

   I guess it's like building a boat- use glass cloth and epoxy, and form it in place.

   A standard mud bed is set over the fiberglass.

3. 
   ROBK92 | Mar 14, 2006 08:47pm | #5

   I would agree with Gene Davis about Schlutter system. I was involved in making a shower/steam room that was very odd shapped and benches. We used the Kari membrain they also have a really neat drain that can be used with thier system, that we were to late to use this, but we did use the membrain with a mud base for the tile. So it would pay you to check into using thier system.

   Have fun.

4. 
   ROBK92 | Mar 14, 2006 08:51pm | #6

   I should have checked the sight first before posting the last, but I did now so if you would like to check further check this. http://www.schluter.com/english/products/2002/sectionh/overview-h/section-h.html

   Everything you always wanted to know about the system.

   Remember always have fun.

5. 
   tenfinger | Mar 14, 2006 10:51pm | #7

   If you're going to do a mud pan, you need sufficient framing to hold it up. Over the years, I've done several bathroom tear-outs where we had to replace joists and all because an upgrade, heavy tile shower settled, cracked and leaked on framing meant to support a fiberglass unit.

   And plumbers are notorious for hacking up the framing in bathrooms.

   I've also told several irate clients that they couldn't have a mortar pan on their existing framing.

   Couple years back I needed a 42" x 84" mortar pan installed.
   I provided the membrane and drain and I paid a licensed tile guy $250 for labor and mud to set the pan.

6. 
   seb | Mar 15, 2006 04:40am | #15

   Go to the John Bridge forums and spend $10 for his book download and it has everything you need to know about a kerdi mud shower pan..
   Bud

7. 
   neilpuck | Mar 15, 2006 08:26pm | #18

   Ditto on the John Bridge link.  I'm a smart guy good with my hands.  Using their guides I made my own pan, 36"x72".  Did preslope, membrane, and final floated surface, 1" mosaic pool tile all by my lonesome and am very happy with the results.   Another recommendation I followed was using a cast iron drain instead of PVC.  And I like the idea a few posts up of using the tapered 2x4's to get the slope perfect, then lift out the wood and fill in the mortar.   Do it yourself.  Its actually a lot of fun, and I take an enormous amount of pride in the fact that I did it myself. 

   Neil

1. 
   McDesign | Mar 16, 2006 02:14am | #19

   Absolootly! 

   Did I really have three drinks with dinner?

   I caN'T FEEL MY LIPS

   fORREEZSE

   T