I was talking to soemone about this the other day, and thought I’d throw it out for discussion.
If you’re selling a house, and you have a basement shop – Do you leave the tools there or take them out?
I wondered about this since we listed our house. I have stuff like a table saw, drill press, etc. Obviously it should go without saying that the shop would have to be clean in order to show the house.
But how would people that looked at the house feel about it? would they think that the guy who lives there is pretty handy, so maybe the house is well built?
Or would they think the table saw needs to go so they can fit their wide screen TV and wet bar into the place?
I don’t know that I really NEED an answer on this. I just thought it would make an interesting topic for discussion…
As soon as I get home I’m gonna peel my Wife’s panties off.
The elastic in the legs is killing me.
Replies
You know, I think you already hit on the important thing. Tidy. Beyond that, if it looks like the kind of getaway most guys would want, its probably a selling point to the majority.
If I were to see a shop though, I think the first instinct in my head would be wondering what kind of tools he had around rather than how that affected the house. Knowing a guys tools . . . well, you know the guy, dontcha?
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
Put some lipstick on the pig and make her into an opportunity.
I mean, clean it of course, but enhance the appearance of "cool" thngs about it. Such as clever storage or lighting, air (compressed) support, etc. that makes the shop something special.
Try to look at it from the guy who's gonna take it over. Is there some opportunity for him to make it his "cave."
I'm a Re/Max agent, and I've seen plenty of houses with basement shops, and I don't think it has any effect on a person's opinion of how well the house is built or maintained. As long as the shop is well organized, clean and un cluttered it should have no direct bearing on a persons impression of the home. If the shop is dusty, or there are scraps everywhere or tools spread across benches, that will mak an impression on people. the best thing a person can do to sell their house is keep it clean and eliminate clutter.
I would wonder if the home owner did some bizarre home improvements. Be skeptical.
Boss, people steal the damnedest stuff.
Stuff they don't even have a use for, so take everything that can disappear & disappear it to your other place.
Or someone will do it for you.
Joe H
We just sold our house with a basement shop (1/3 of basement). It took less than a month to sell privately in a down market here.
My shop was piled high with sawdust and wood. Since I was working on a large project (still unfinished) you could barely get around down there. Most people stuck their heads in the door for about three seconds before moving on.
The other half of the basement was finished so they spent more time looking around there.
A realtor friend has an interesting perspective. Her advice is to remove everything from the house that you don't want to sell. Her rationale is that if the buyer doesn't see it, they can't ask for it - but if it's there, they can.
Something like a shop could really muddy the waters, with people wanting the shop tools but not offering fair market.
Having said that, I have sold houses with shops, with no problem. But I probably will remove the tools before I list the current house, now that my realtor friend has offered this advice.
I was kinda thinking the same thing. I would'nt want people trying to barter for my stuff, tools or anything else.
dug
I'd move it out, let the space look as big as it can to the prospective buyer. The same goes with furniture. It may seem to make it more appealing but it's really taking up a lot of space. Empty houses look bigger. Allowing the prospects to walk through on their own also makes the house seem bigger.
I s'pose it would depend on if the tools were 220 or 110 :) My parents sold many a home with a basement shop, and my husband and I bought our home with a shop in the garage. The main thing is to have it neat and well organized. If the room is unfinished or rough, it looks better with tools in it than empty. But then again I am partial to tools.
On the other hand, if you move the tools to the new/old house then you will have something to do with your time.
I suppose there are pros and cons both ways, Boss, but it seems to me that when a space is filled up with stuff it seems smaller and it is harder for folks to envision what they might do with the same space themselves.
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"But how would people that looked at the house feel about it? would they think that the guy who lives there is pretty handy, so maybe the house is well built? "
I was just through a house last week that a very good customer's sister bought. The people that she bought it from was obviously "handy". ( dust collection system through the auxiliary garage etc.) The craftsmanship sucked!
When I saw the "shop setup" it clued me into the "projects" that he had done. That were not done the way they would have been if someone were hired to do an adequate job.
This was a $1M property. It was easy for me to see where he said I'll take it from here.
Anybody can buy tools.
I don't know that I am qualified to answer your question. But my feeling is that it doesn't matter. If you did fine/professional work then it will show - if you owned a bunch of tools and screwed it up or did an adequate job then that will show too.
On the other side, I have been in some houses and gushed over the time it must have taken someone to complete a particular project to have it come out so well, and have the homeowner say that it wasn't that bad.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
I'd be very skeptical of someone having a home shop. When I was looking at houses that had a shop, it was evident the homeowner was a wanna be who thought he could tackle all reno's in his house. I took the shop as a warning sign to what potentially wrong reno's were done.
>>>I'd be very skeptical of someone having a home shop. When I was looking at houses that had a shop, it was evident the homeowner was a wanna be who thought he could tackle all reno's in his house. I took the shop as a warning sign to what potentially wrong reno's were done.Good point, except that anyone whose hung out here for the last eight or so years knows that BH is no wanna be. I'd be inclined to clean it up to where it looks like a serious shop, which no doubt it is, and leave the rest to the imagination of prospective buyers.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
I'd probably make an offer contingent on you leaving the table saw down there.
I'd jump on that. I really want an excuse to get a better saw! :-)George Patterson
If you keep the tools in the space for showings, I'd definitely shut off the power to the tools at the panel or unplug every thing. If a prospective buyer has kids along, anything can happen... and fast. You don't want to be on the hook for little Johnny (or his dad) cutting a few fingers off.
Boss,
If you're open to selling the tools, leave them there...unplugged, of course. If you absolutely want to keep some or all of it, remove it/them before the house shows. You have enough going on without adding potential conflicts about your woodshop equipment to the mix.
Bill
>>>If you're open to selling the tools, leave them there...unplugged, of course.Why "of course"? If I were shopping for used tool gear I'd want to spark them up. Why unplug them?Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
I would not want a stranger firing up my saws when I was not present. What if it was a child of a prospective buyer who wandered alone into the basement? Someone who plugs in a tool to see it run is much more committed than one who just flips the switch.
I don't understand the "If you absolutely want to keep some or all of it, remove it/them before the house shows." If someone offers on a tool, all he has to do is say no.
You are correct. All he has to do to stop a sale is to say "no."To me, the sale of a house that was "home" is already complex enough without having stuff there that is not for sale to confuse the issue. Out of sight is out of mind. Whatever we think, Boss Hog will do as he sees fit. He asked for opinions and I presented mine. It may be more fun for some people to introduce complexity; I lean toward simplicity in these matters, that is all. It is merely a lifestyle choice.Bill
To all,
for what it's worth my wife and I just had a realtor look at our house for an assessment. Not shore if we are selling, but testing the waters.
I have a detached 2 car garage that is a dedicated woodworking shop with all the equipment. This includes a cyclone dust collection system and duct work, wall mounted lumber rack, several 240 V circuits.......
-----I'm a serious wannabe be------
My first question was " should I move the tools out before we list the house"
Our realtor said "the shop wasn't an issue either way and not to move or un-hook any equipment until we have a place to go." I don't necessarily agree with that but it was her recommendation.
THEN out of the other side of her mouth she say's
" the detached garage doesn't add much value to the property"
That's just Bull $hit as far as I'm concerned. I don't know if I care for this realtor.
If we decide to list our house I'll do a major clean up, and leave the equipment in the building, but un-hooked and ready to move. I'll box up and package most of the small stuff. Any perspective buyer will get the visual idea the the tools do not stay.
Now if some one wants to make an offer that's fine with me. But it will be a separate check at the settlement table, not tied in with the house money.
Bill
43BillH
May I suggest that you sit down and reevaulate things from another perspective?
Where you are located determines the value of a detached garage.. Up here in the midwest a detached garage means that you need to trudge out thru the snow to get to your car which will likely be cold (unless it's heated)..
Your realitor is correct in that the value of the detached garage may have little to do with the sale.. You see women determine the value of a home not men (usually) A great kitchen is worth far more to a woman than a great shop.. The right drapes and carpet means more than the best tablesaw or dust system..
Sad but true.
Don't unhook equipment and pack away tools.. sales are taking longer and longer especially if you want to get maximum return from your house. Homes around here which were once selling the week they were listed have been taking one and sometimes two years! Do you realy want to go that long without your hobby?
Second a seperate check at time of close?
OK but that attitude could easily cost you the sale..
Those chisels can be replaced with brand new ones for at most a couple of hundred dollars.. When you are down to the neogotiations, tossing in a few hundred dollars worth of tools may save you from having to give up a few thousands on the deal.. Remember to value the tools at what they would get in a seperate sale, don't put sentimental value because the market doesn't care that those tools made the crib for your chidren or came from a favorite uncle..
People sometimes need to feel they got the better deal.. If they talk you out of some hand tools or even a tablesaw or something you can remain more firm on your price. In neogotiations remember this axium..
IF......Will you....
IF I throw in the table saw will you pay me $XXXXXXXX
If I leave all the tools there will you pay full price for the house?
It's called the art of negotiations and that ability will determine who got the better deal..
Just as an anicdote, when I bought my first house the owner insisted that all the lamps went with her.. I agreed Seemingly reluctantly if she would come down another $1000. which she accepted..
I hated her lamps and replacing them with ones of my preference cost me around $300.00 (this was 35 years ago and the whole house cost $27,800.)
Frenchy,
Perspective is an interesting concept.
I live in the north east ( Delaware ). Property is expensive here!
A 50 year old, 4 bedroom house on 1/3 acre lot in fair condition can easily sell for $400,000.
Since the housing market slowed down, I have noticed people tend to leave their house sit empty for months on end instead of lowering the price enough to sell in a reasonable time frame.
I'm not really shore why, but it's happening all over this end of town.
Now, back to that garage.
My realtor says " doesn't add a lot of value"
In the mean time it's considered a selling feature or up grade at some of the houses we looked at in our area.
Yeah,
perhaps I do have a bad attitude about my tools.
People come to look at your house, not your personal property.
Something for nothing like another poster said.
Washer, dryer, freezer, other normal household stuff? Yeah shore, lets talk.
But machine tools?
lets just say I did leave my 8" jointer to some poindexter who bought the house.
He has an accident and turns 2 or 3 fingers into hamburger on the power tool I left on the property.......
way to much exposure!
At least a separate check would indicate he had some idea what he was buying.
Just my perspective.
43BillH
Yeh, location does have it's differances.. Based on your comments I suspect what you realitor was probably trying to do was calm down your expectations..
If a house like yours sells for $400,000 in a booming market and things are getting decidedly softer now then it's reasonable that the realitor will want to put your house on the market at a lower number to attract buyers looking for a bargin..
That way she can find buyers looking to spend say $375,000 which might be easier.
You can of course hold out for $400,000 but in a soft market that means your house could remain for sale for a year or more. Here In the Minnesota market some sellers have had their house listed for nearly three years with little interest..
There is something the realitors call a stale listing.. once it's been on the market for 3 months realitors seldom bother to show it anymore.. they figure it's not likely to sell why not show them something that will.
That can drive the final price you get even lower than if you'd come down to $375,000 right off.
Tools really aren't so much differant than anything else, say snowmobles or jet ski's. If I look at your house and notice a picture I like I may ask that it be included and if it's a real hot button use it as a closing tool.. That jointer you mentioned could be replaced with another if the price was right.. as for exposure, don't allow it to be listed in the sale agreement and there is no way to clearly establish liabity.
Just remember that anybody can sue anyone at anytime over anything.. A jointer doesn't make you any more vulnerable than a bicycle..
> I'm not really shore why, but it's happening all over this end of
> town.My guess is that the place is mortgaged to the hilt. They can afford to keep paying the mortgage, but they can't afford to sell the place at current market value and come up with the necessary $20,000 or $100,000 to pay off the mortgage.I was in that position for years after the NJ market crash in 1989. If I had lost my job, I would've had to declare bankruptcy simply because the house would not have sold for enough to pay off the mortgage. It was a bout 10 years later that the market recovered enough for me to quit sweating.George Patterson
Hi George,
Yeah I kind of figured it is debt related too. What a terrible position to be in.
Can't afford to sell the property for less.....
Can't afford to make payments while it sits on the market..
That kind of stuff will keep a guy up at night!
And this is happening to quite a few properties in our area. I guess that's why the experts say this "housing slump" will last through 2008
"the detached garage doesn't add much value to the property"
From an appraisal standpoint she is right. When they evaluated our house the "outbuilding" which is our detached garage added very little value to the property. Personally I prefer it because it keeps the shop noise, car smell (it's a big garage), and danger of CO poisoning away from the house. But my personal preferences don't matter to the bank.
The garage should be listed under improvements, not property, which is the land only. My new garage was added to the value of the house, at about the price I paid but it may be handled differently here.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
It is listed under improvements. It doesn't raise the value like an attached garage does.
Mine isn't attached.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Maybe it's regional then. Around here an attached garage adds a lot of value to the bank, detached not very much.
But it's a really nice one. Doesn't that count? :)
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
> But it will be a separate check at the settlement table, not tied in
> with the house money.Which means the money has to come from their liquid assets. The same pool the down payment has to come from. They won't be able to bump the mortgage up just a bit to pay for the tools.If you have that attitude, just take the tools.George Patterson
Interesting replies. Some people say a house shows better when it's lived in. Others say it shows better when it's empty. Who knows?I haven't had time to worry about moving my shop equipment yet anyway. Heck, I still don't have my clothes all put away yet. So at this point it's not reqlly a big issue - I just thought it would make for an interesting discussion. And it looks like it has.If selling my table saw would help sell the house, I'll add it to the listing, no problem. This is, after all, the "Spec House from Hell"(-:
Our relationship is magical.
So don't complain when I ask you to hold my wand.
Someone is going to lose interest in a house because the seller doesn't want to part with his table saw? What is the buyer looking at-the tools of the house? Isn't there usually a property description? If it isn't on the listing, the potential buyer shouldn't assume it's included. That's just trying to get something for nothing.OTOH, if the offer is high enough, a new saw isn't necessarily a bad thing. The value of the old one will be split, anyway. "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 9/11/2007 11:19 am by highfigh
Since the tools will probably be leaving fairly soon, anyway, why not relocate the smaller ones, eliminate any clutter and move the larger machines closer to the wall? It would make the room look larger and maybe you can make them look like they're going to be moved soon.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
highfigh,
Fine if the home sells quickly, not so good if the sale drags on.. (as they are tending to do nowdays)
OK, but he has already moved out, right? If he has, I don't think he'll be using much of the equipment unless he needs to do something where he's staying now.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
highfigh,
I don't think so, I think he's concerned about showing it with shop equipment.
Read post 30. He moved out a couple of weeks ago, too.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"Since the tools will probably be leaving fairly soon, anyway, why not relocate the smaller ones, eliminate any clutter and move the larger machines closer to the wall?"
Actually, I've already done that. Guess I should have mentioned it earlier.
I hauled out all the clutter I could, and just left the workbench, large tools, and some wall mounted cabinets. Haven't had time to think about moving the big stuff yet.
I'm not a god... I've just been misquoted.
That's not usually the way things work. The prospective buyer will make an offer on the house; maybe what you're asking, maybe more, maybe less. Then they want the tool (whatever it is) thrown in free. They will almost always get pissed if you expect extra money for the tools.I suppose you could always put price tags on each tool. That might work.George Patterson
If the tool is included in the offer on the home, then it isn't "for free", it is part of the overall purchase price. Then the counter offer comes back from the owner - "you can have the house for that price, but not the tool". Anything not on that paper is not part of the deal.
With large power tools, I would probably put a note on each saying they are not a fixture and not included in the sale. That removes ambiguity. I've never quite figured out why a drop in range is considered a fixture and the fridge, washer, and dryer aren't.
> If the tool is included in the offer on the home, then it isn't "for
> free", it is part of the overall purchase price. Then the counter
> offer comes back from the owner - "you can have the house for that
> price, but not the tool". Anything not on that paper is not part of
> the deal.That's exactly what I said. And then frequently the prospective buyer gets upset and you lose the sale. The buyer wants the tool to be part of the overall purchase price.> With large power tools, I would probably put a note on each saying
> they are not a fixture and not included in the sale. That removes
> ambiguity.Good idea. It might work. It would certainly eliminate the situation in which the buyer gets upset and you lose the sale on that account.George Patterson
If I were looking for a house the quality of the shop would be a plus or minus. If it were the shop of a real craftsman, with quality tools, fine hardwood stock, and careful workmanship it would speak well of the care the owner took of the house. If the tools were Wal Mart, the workbench store bought with metal legs, the table saw made of plastic, then it would raise the question of what else in the house was wrecked by the owner.