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Discussion Forum

SHSHOVELS – who makes a good one?

toolbear | Posted in Tools for Home Building on November 20, 2005 06:31am

Folks,

Such a basic tool…

We were discussing shovels last week when the company’s shovel started bounding off the dirt. Seems it had a crack half way down. Folded it over and made a wide dust pan for a trench.

Who makes a good shovel for just plain digging around the job?

Wood handle or fibreglass?

How much angle on the blade?

Who makes a good trench spoon? Last job – they had a really nice one. Mine came from HD and is hardly as good in design.

The ToolBear

“Never met a man who couldn’t teach me something.” Anon.

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Replies

  1. 4Lorn1 | Nov 20, 2005 07:35am | #1

    My preferences are for 'contractor grade' shovels. A bit thicker steel, a reinforcing sleeve down near the blade, fiberglass handle, with upturned step. The ones with a lightly corrugations running up a few inches from the edge may have some advantage digging clay and chopping roots, the blade is a bit stiffer and the edge is more like a serrated knife edge, but the difference is subtle.

    Fiberglass handles seem a bit more rugged than wood but I have seen wood last for years if care is taken to not pry too much with them. A matter of using the right tool for the job. No shovel is a match for a digging bar, rock bar or axe in their specialized jobs.

    The higher end fiberglass models are good, especially the foam filled ones, but nothing is indestructible. Poorly maintained the wood has splinters and the fiberglass can shed glass fibers if the gel coat is shot and, if really bad and damaged, nasty splinters. Usually best to have some gloves handy if the digging is going to be a big deal anyway.

    I file the edge of the shovel pretty sharp, keep the rust at bay with a wire brush and used motor oil and generally keep them reasonably clean. Wood, if maintained with a bit of boiled linseed oil allowed to soak in before being buffed off and light sanding as needed, seems easier on the hands than the smoother fiberglass but the difference is slight.

    I hear that the gel coat outside the fiber on a fiberglass handle can be renewed but mostly the shovels break, fall apart or wander off before it is an issue.
    I have taken to marking the handle for common ditch depths needed by electricians: 12", 18", 24", 30". Colored duct tape or paint, mask and spray to keep it neat, work well and save having to drag out the tape measure.

    Also saves wear on tapes which are always getting knocked into the mud when working in a ditch. Dropping a tape measure into a muddy water can be the kiss of death. Certainly doesn't do them any good.

    I can't say I have any favorite brand shovel. Seems the big boxes get their contractor grade units from the same, or similar, manufacturers. I look for a solid feeling unit and have been known to pull the plastic handle tip off to see how the handle is constructed.

    1. User avater
      Heck | Nov 20, 2005 07:43am | #2

      Good response.

      To me, it's all in the 'feel'. I feel for weight, balance, handle size and shape. I try the blade for flex and angle.

      I prefer wood handles.

      I have found many of my better shovels at auctions and yard sales.The heck, you say?

      1. Danno | Nov 20, 2005 10:30pm | #7

        I agree about preferring wooden handles. I have a fiberglass handled shovel and I find myself avoiding it--just doesn't feel right. But if i know I may be doing some prying, I use the shovel with the fiberglass handle. One of the best investments I made was a big steel bar that ends with a chisel-type blade. Came in real handy when I was digging post holes where the old posts were still there and there were also lots of roots.

        1. toolbear | Nov 21, 2005 04:41am | #8

          Went down to HD to see what shovels they had.Seriously bad selection. Several square nose models and one sleezy Chinese round nose.I'm looking in the White Cap catalog now. Want to try Sears.The ToolBear

          "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

          1. DavidxDoud | Nov 21, 2005 04:57am | #9

            check here: http://www.amleo.com/index/help-desk/subcat.cgi?Cat=NB&page=1

            A M Leonard co - horticultural supplies - over 50 choices in shovels,  even their cheapest will give service,  unlike the crap marketed for 'consumers' -

             

             "there's enough for everyone"

          2. toolbear | Nov 21, 2005 06:24am | #10

            Thanks for the tip. I see White Cap has them from $6 to $40.I favor the closed back versions - as I own the open back and get tired of clawing mud out of the holes.The ToolBear

            "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

          3. toolbear | Nov 21, 2005 06:28am | #11

            Very interesting catalog - and informative about the desirable features.
            There is something of a difference between the HD $7 round nose and a $50 Ames. Have to chain the thing down. Come with a bike lock?The ToolBear

            "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

          4. Mooney | Nov 22, 2005 11:35am | #20

            I really appreciate the link.  So dont get me wrong there .

            50 and 60 dollars for shovels wont be happening around here .

            Tim

             

          5. DavidxDoud | Nov 22, 2005 04:00pm | #22

            50 and 60 dollars for shovels wont be happening around here .

            so,  I take it you don't have any $200 hammers either?

             

             "there's enough for everyone"

          6. Mooney | Nov 22, 2005 06:10pm | #23

            LOL, youre correct.

            Tim

             

          7. toolbear | Nov 23, 2005 07:54am | #27

            Not quite up to $200 hammers, but I do have the rare aluminum handled Stilleto which retailed at $120. Most superb ergonomics and style. Since being told it is worth more on eBay than on the job, it resides at home.The ToolBear

            "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

          8. blue_eyed_devil | Nov 27, 2005 05:09pm | #50

            The reason that they are so rare Toolbear, is because the head falls off if you pry anything with the claws.

            Frank had one. He pulled some nails and the head fell off. He took it back and they replaced it because it was only a week old. The next one lasted about another week. Of course he still used it to pry and pull nails but that didn't snap the head. The head snapped when he missed his hammer holder and the hammer fell to the deck.

            He was quite peeved and took the hammer back again. They asked him "what are you doing with the hammer. Are you prying with it? You can't pry with it or we won't replace the next one!" He got a refund and bought the woodhandled hammer.

            It was obviously a design defect and they stopped making them because everyone probably came back except yours.

            blue 

          9. toolbear | Nov 29, 2005 05:50am | #51

            RE - Stil. alum. handled hammer

            That rare?  I best gin up a plaque to mount it on.  Shame, 'cause the feel of it is a delight.  Ergonomics are seldom that good.

            I assume you can pry all you want with the T-Bone.  Don't have that.  Don't like the lines.

             

             

             

             

             The ToolBear

            "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

          10. toolbear | Nov 23, 2005 07:52am | #26

            @@ I really appreciate the link. So dont get me wrong there .50 and 60 dollars for shovels wont be happening around here . Don't think my boss is going there either. But I might for my own needs.Next come the accessories. You need a shovel caddy to carry the various blades and bars. Plus a real caddy. "I'll use the 5" trench shovel on this one."HD did have that POS for under $10 and in the five pages of shovels in that online catalog, I noticed a "crew" model for $14. But, I am not happy with the ergonomics of the ditching spoon I got from the big box. The boss had a better one, closed back, etc.The ToolBear

            "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

          11. kate | Nov 24, 2005 06:28pm | #39

            A. M. Leonard - Yes!  My late DH was an arborist - a couple nice shovels still remain here form the old days.

          12. Mooney | Nov 26, 2005 04:12am | #47

            Were not doin much in here but visiting now so Ill tell one.

            I inherited two children in my current marriage. Helped raise them a little. Boy the oldest and then a girl. Had her since 10 yrs old  and him since 15.

            He was lazy and would not work. I tried to make him and he ran off . Well it got worse and I called his dad to pick him up. I gave him several chances since then to learn from me with pay but nope . I gave up and told him there would be a day he would be sorry for blowing paid training . He told his grandfather that he did indeed mess up with me .

            The girl was as stubborn as me and if she had looked a little like me you could have sworn she was mine . She didnt want to help me either but I did make her and she picked up quickly. Shes really smart , not that I am , but I only told her once ." A "student all the way through college.

            I never thought she even liked me although we had some pretty good times working but she thought it was uncool to be seen with her mother and I.

            Seems shes become a critic over workmanship and has become picky. Shes hard to work for and gripes about substandard work.

            Shes doing her own work on her house and has had tools for quite a while now.

            I guess to say the thanks I get if I deserve any  is that Im the one she calls to chat about such stuff . Im sitting there smiling answering her questions and her lodging her arguments. Woth her being bull headed , honery , and knowing just enough about trade work to make her dangerous , but she always finds the answer reasoning . Just takes her a while .

            If I had a choice between her and the boy which both are grown in helping me for a week Id pick her in an instant and figgure my self lucky. Shes a good hand . She likes to be the" cut man" , and she can do it .

            Tim

             

             

             

          13. kate | Nov 26, 2005 07:14pm | #48

            That's a great story.  Sometimes it takes a while to realize the gifts we got, which we thought at the time were bad-tasting medicine!

            I, too, inherited kids with my spouse, 3 boys.  The less said about the twins, the better, but the oldest one lives upstairs in my house now, & has really become a good friend, especially since his father died.

            He's in the process of D-mixing the lumpy old walls, & is doing a good job.

    2. toolbear | Nov 20, 2005 09:04pm | #6

      Lot of good ideas there!Will print out the thread and share with our diggers. One is thinking of getting his own shovel. Idea there.I sharpen mine with a 4.5 grinder and 36g disk. Will have to see about marking the handles. Last job I took a stake and make a story pole for the boys. We need 40" for these cell sites - that puts the 4" conduit at 36" below grade. The ToolBear

      "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

    3. pm22 | Nov 22, 2005 06:43am | #17

      What is this malarkey about: "marking the handle for common ditch depths needed by electricians: 12", 18", 24", 30"."? This should be 11 1/2", 17", 23" and 28 1/2". You obviously don't use apprentice-think.

      Some heretics even say to place the marks from the handle [blunt] end of the shovel. These fools don't realize that you can sink the pointy end of the shovel at least an 1/8" deeper into the bottom of the trench when the measurements are taken

      And the top of the tape should be at the, for instance, 11 1/2" mark so that is the one foot depth and when the bottom side of the tape reaches the ground level which is measured from the top of thw pile of of tailings, that is the proper depth.

      ~Peter

      1. 4Lorn1 | Nov 22, 2005 09:20am | #19

        Standard measurements are always from the top of the conduit. So I tell them to go a bit deep. They get to the mark they can usually eyeball the extra couple of inches needed.On critical I have been known to give them a section a couple of feet long of the conduit we will be using and tell them to lay it in the ditch and measure from the top. If they start putting too much 'english' on the estimate I make them lay one shovel down across the ditch and measure. Always amazes me how often the 26" deep ditch they swear they dug suffers from 'swelling of the clay' and 'fault line uplift' in the time it takes for me to get there. Who knew it could rise 6" in five minutes. Without any noticeable earthquake. In an area without any known fault lines. Quick ... Call the USGS. It's a completely unknown phenomena. Of course for all the work avoidance of the laborers the worse cases are always the HOs who, attempting to avoid much of the cost of an installation, agree to dig the ditch for us. Not one out of ten such cases do they get anything like close. Joke is the ladies have been lied to so many times, sure that's 6", they can't measure anything. Seems not a few men are similarly confused. Not sure if they can similarly claim any underlying deception. Unless they believe their own lies.

        1. toolbear | Nov 23, 2005 07:46am | #25

          @@ Always amazes me how often the 26" deep ditch they swear they dug suffers from 'swelling of the clay' and 'fault line uplift' in the time it takes for me to get there. Who knew it could rise 6" in five minutes. Without any noticeable earthquake. In an area without any known fault lines. Quick ... Call the USGS. It's a completely unknown phenomena. Probably digging in those expansive soils...The ToolBear

          "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

          1. pm22 | Nov 25, 2005 08:17am | #45

            This is a truthful, well-known fact of science. The weight of the overburder has been compressing the clay at the bottom of the trench for uptold 1000s of years. When removed, the pressure is relieved and the material at the botom of the trench is now free to expand.

            Compare this to seawater. Every 33 feet down, the pressure doubles. The same with the atmosphere.

            ~Peter

            Quality is bested by lower price.

          2. toolbear | Nov 26, 2005 03:15am | #46

            Interesting to know. 

            I know that when I ran drain lines in boggy clay soils, the drains acted like low pressure areas and the ground water migrated into them - draining the bogs on the surface.The ToolBear

            "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

  2. Pierre1 | Nov 20, 2005 08:59am | #3

    The "GARANT" contractor's shovel is a sweet number. Has the features mentioned by 4lorn1. There's a fair bit of angle on the blade, so it's quite stiff there. Wood handle with straight grain. Made in Canada, eh.

    http://www.costofwar.com/

  3. User avater
    JeffBuck | Nov 20, 2005 11:04am | #4

    finally ... a question I can answer with authority!

     

    Fiskar "digging shovel" from Lowes ...

    actually had to look that up! At the moment ... it's in the garage ... but .. had a big-dig project at the begining of this year .... knew I'd be going thru tons of glacier rocks ... and I spent all of $25 to help get me there.

     

    That ... plus ... a flap/sander for the grinder ala Rodger "the stone guy on This old house" and a big can of wd-40 ...

    that shovel ... digs great ... plus ... had a nice wide "step" to stomp it down.

    while at that store .. was suddenly lusting a fiberglass handle on another shovel  ... when some 99 year old guy walked by and said he just returned the exact same thing after snapping it trying to dig out a rock!

     

    did I mention the glacial rock thing in that area?

     

    almost a year later review ... both me and Good Housekeeping love that shovel.

    Jeff

        Buck Construction

     Artistry In Carpentry

         Pittsburgh Pa

  4. Shoeman | Nov 20, 2005 06:40pm | #5

    I don't do a lot of digging, but, have been happy with the Craftsman fiberglass handled spade.  I have broken other shovels in the past and liked the way the Craftsman was made as well as the lifetime warranty. 

    worth a look

  5. junkhound | Nov 21, 2005 06:37am | #12

    Try to get one with the reinforced back at the transition to the handle, the blade will be much less likely to flex and crack (center shovel blade in the pix, compared to the RH unreinforced cheapie. 

    Note on the cheapie, the plastic coating on the handle has split - get a little water into the wood, the plastic splits when cold - split is seen in the pix along the side of the red handle, right at the top of the handle in the pix. The LH flat shovel has a wedge on the back for prying, still only second best to a good old gandy dancer bar (not shown) .  Big pix for detail.

    View Image


    Edited 11/20/2005 10:40 pm ET by junkhound

    1. storme | Nov 21, 2005 08:13am | #13

      I prefer a fiberglass handled shovel but not the contractor grade - I like something that weighs a bit less as I find the weight adds up after a while. I haven't had reliability issues with the lighter grade fiberglass shovels, but I'm careful with them. Avoid shovels where the handle is attached with a pin right at the shovel - creates a weak spot. I don't sharpen my shovels as often as I think I should, or oil the handles of my wood tools often enough, kind of one of those things. I do frequently mark handles with important lengths so you can use it as a gauge. The front of a treching shovel is especially useful but the marks wear off.

      1. IronHelix | Nov 21, 2005 02:57pm | #14

        Some of my shovels are 30+ years old.

        All have had handles replaced. Wood only for me. 

        Now epoxy coated, previously linseed & turps.

        My favorites are solid shank models and have begun to be a little short as they have worn down with age, which brings me to my question.

        Does any mfg. make solid shank models?

        .................Iron Helix

         

        PS.................I tried the posted link which lists the Ames Pony series solid shank.

                             Great link.............thanks.

        Edited 11/21/2005 7:13 am ET by IronHelix

    2. toolbear | Nov 22, 2005 05:42am | #16

      Dramatic photo!Followed up on that tip on the shovel site. Got six pages of them. I favor an ash handle. The glass ones don't feel right. Really going to have to find a local source and heft a bunch. What do you think of the forged versions? I like a closed back. Less mud.The ToolBear

      "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

  6. DanH | Nov 21, 2005 06:31pm | #15

    Used to be Seymour made the best stuff, in the midwest, anyway. Now they just label imported stuff, of course.

    If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people

    happy?

  7. BillBrennen | Nov 22, 2005 07:34am | #18

    Having done a lot of digging in my life, I am a shovel snob, and insist on forged shovels. The Ames Pony brand is the easiest to get in the West, but good imported spades from England can be had from garden catalogs. True Temper has, or had, a line of forged shovels called Husky Bronco.

    The forged shovels weigh more, but they are easier to use because they don't flex as much, and they don't have a hollow to fill up with soil. The forged steel is hard, yet tough. The edges stay sharp longer, and can really cut roots. Many of mine are very worn, but I love them and keep maintaining them. Only wooden handle I ever broke was using a shovel stuck in a roll of carpet to lift it. Dumb!

    Bill

  8. Mooney | Nov 22, 2005 11:55am | #21

    Its been a good thread . Actually cleaned up , its worth money.

    Just a small detail since my Dad was in the handle business .

    Always look at the end grain of any handled tool. Hammers and shovels only have vertical force so you want to look at a solid Oak or Hickory handle with a good end design of grain for super strengh. ((|||)).

    Tim

     

    1. 4Lorn1 | Nov 23, 2005 02:45am | #24

      Re: ..."solid Oak or Hickory handle with a good end design of grain for super strengh."I agree that good grain structure makes a big difference. Problem is tool handles used to have straight, tight grain. 32 growth rings per inch would be nice. It is interesting to compare the wood on surviving antique handles. Very few modern wood handles has anything like straight and tight grain. Mostly it is grain that is about eight per inch and shoots out the side of the handle.When I buy replacement handles I try to select the best example I can but even digging through entire bins of handles it is hard to find even one that is marginal. Mostly I settle on the best of the poor stock I can find. Simply the old, straight, slow grown trees are all gone. As one carpenter put it:'the stuff we build out of now isn't even decent blocking'. Or something like that.So studs are increasingly 'engineered' from pulpwood or steel and to get a strong handle you more often have to go with fiberglass or some other substitute.

      1. Mooney | Nov 23, 2005 02:30pm | #29

        Im sure youre talking Oak on those growth rings , but Hickory doesnt matter does it ? The only thing we use a Hickory for is firewood and it does a good job at that being in the top 3.

        I like to look at a pretty Oak handle though.

        Ive seen the tight grain in older handles. never gave much thought over it till you mention it , Thanks.

         

        Id rather have a finished hickory handle than fiberglass if Im using it . If a hand is using it they need a steel bar welded to the insert like Junkhound has. Then  they can get in the ditch and play dirty. Dad did the same thing to a wood maul after breaking several handles . I didnt break the steel handle he had welded in the slot. Learned to use a maul doing that but didnt miss that steel handle.

        Tim

         

        Edited 11/23/2005 6:33 am by Mooney

  9. junkhound | Nov 23, 2005 08:38am | #28

    Interesting this thread has gotten as much response as it has. 

    When I take the preschool grandkids home after a day here we usually stop at a hardware store.  Just an Ace store, but 2 hours ago took a look at their shovels, not a single one worth 1/2 the asking price.  Better to buy a shovel in an antique store or garage sale (source of all the ones in the pix posted earlier)

    No  mention of ash for shovel handles, not a  strong as hickory, but lighter, nearly as good when not used as an improptu sledge hammer (nowhere near the shock capability of hickory)   Have made a few homemade handles out of vine maple, no hickory in PNW unfortunately, should have brought back some nuts vs just wood the last 40 years.

    1. Mooney | Nov 23, 2005 02:45pm | #30

      Interesting this thread has gotten as much response as it has. 

      Might that be the lack of content in the whole site right now ?

      Tim

       

      1. DavidxDoud | Nov 23, 2005 03:55pm | #31

        Interesting this thread has gotten as much response as it has. 

        Might that be the lack of content in the whole site right now ?

        I'd think not really - I believe that the universal frustration engendered by using an inferior/unsatisfactory tool is pent up in all of us who understand there is a difference - and the lowly shovel is a perfect example -

        our community had a 'grand opening' of the new county historical museum last weekend,  one of the exhibits is on the wabash/erie canal,  complete with picts - men digging the canal with shovels and wheelbarrows - no one digs like that anymore and the shovel has been relegated to 'hand saw' like status - occasional use when the powertool is unavailable - and consequently has been cheapened to the point of unusability,  much to the despair of us who occasionally have to perform with one -

        this is a group that believes in buying good tools and the shovel has not been addressed before to my recollection -

         

         

         "there's enough for everyone"

        1. Mooney | Nov 23, 2005 03:59pm | #32

          Very well covered

           

           

        2. Mooney | Nov 23, 2005 04:02pm | #33

          Oh yes, the Diston hand saw or was it 2 Ss ?

          Wood boxes to hold them with 3/8s stock divideding them all homemade. Yeppers

           

    2. toolbear | Nov 24, 2005 02:51pm | #34

      @@@ Finding a good professional shovel...  nearly impossible

      (Wherein ToolBear searches for the Excalibur of Shovels, only to find cast iron pokers.)

      Right you are.  Having yesterday off, I took a shopping trip in search of a good round nose shovel.  This was defined as having a closed back - which immediately elevates you above 98% of what is out there.

      Most of what is out there are imported Chinese Pieces of Sleeze (POS) or Pieces of Crud (POC) (your adjectives may vary, mine do.).  There appears to be a Gresham's Law working for shovels.  There is probably a black market for the good stuff.

      Their common models retail around $8 and look it.  The deluxe ones are up to $20.  All are open back, dull, indifferent varnish on the handles or fibreglass.  None inspire the Opening of the Wallet.

      Home Depot - nope

      Sears - nope

      Orco - nope

      White Cap - nope - which is sad as their catalog showed some pro models.  Outdated catalog?

      Ganahl's - nope/yes.  The round nose selection was in the $8 category, but there was a 5" ditching spoon with closed back that made Der Bear's paws itch.  "Come, let me clutch thee."  

      One telling feature - they had sharpened it - ground an actual edge on it.  Passed, as I have a spoon from HD with open back, glass handle.  Don't like it.  The egronomics are not there.  Might go back for this beauty.

      Thus far, the best source of shovels from the "crew model" to the Mercedes is A.M. Leonard on line at amleo.com.  Five pages of choices.  Tempted by the 48" Razorback closed backwith added plate welded to back for extra strength at $37.

      Leo serves the horticultural industry.  It would seem that you have to find a vendor that serves people who dig for a living - and not our local Latino laborers ($10/hr) who are issued the "crew models" or less.  The hardwares and big boxes are aimed at the DIY who would faint when confronted by a $30 shovel. 

      The construction supply houses seem to be aiming at the crews - who will beat the crap out of the cheap shovels and probably steal the good ones - so they get crap.  Have yet to work for a firm that puts much $$ into hand tools.  They tend to walk.

       

       

       

       The ToolBear

      "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

      1. Mooney | Nov 24, 2005 03:08pm | #35

        Verily verily I say to you , that with a pick , a grubin hoe , and an occasional rock bar , the shovels only use is a spoon for the gravy.

        On the other hand I must advise you to get out your credit card and add that razorback to your cart . As wimmin all over the world would say, it wasnt a deal but it was affordable and to have it and quit lusting over it , Im now at rest with it .

         

        Tim

         

        1. junkhound | Nov 24, 2005 03:27pm | #37

           the shovels only use is a spoon for the gravy

          Great phrase; however, even after the backhoe has done it's work, even the gravy can bend some of the 'new'  HD?Ace?Lowdown's retail crap out there.

          Had been tempted at the first post to take a pix of the Ford backhoe and JD loader, but deemed this a semi-serious thread <G>

          Grateful Thanksgiving to all!

          1. User avater
            MarkH | Nov 24, 2005 03:41pm | #38

            I bought this real old world style beauty from Lehmans.com.  It has a thick forged blade that I can't imagine ever bending, and the handle is fantastic.  Made in England by Spear and Jackson.  I have the both the long handle version and the smaller short handled one.  Almost too pretty to use.

            http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=5829&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=spade

      2. junkhound | Nov 24, 2005 03:22pm | #36

        Finding a good professional shovel...  nearly impossible

        au contraire, fairly easy if you consider Saturday morning summertime garage sales with DW as entertainment. The 3 in the pix were the closest to the computer to go take a quick snapshot.  

        Think I have about 30 shovels, only 4 of them are closed back, but never pay over $2 either.  I will buy a cracked shovel for 50 cents with a good handle, one weld pass and it is good for utilitarian work.

        Grateful Thansgiving to all!

         

    3. kate | Nov 24, 2005 06:38pm | #40

      The grandkids...now, there are some lucky kids, to get to hang out with you!  (I'm being serious, for a change.)

      & now for the diatribe...I know things have changed a lot since I was young, but one of my grandfathers was a wonderful woodworker, fixer, generally cool guy, but he wouldn't teach me much, or even let me hang out in the shop = because I was a girl.

      You wouldn't do that to your grandaughter, if you had one, of course.  Something else to be thankful for!

      Have a wonderful day!

      1. junkhound | Nov 24, 2005 06:46pm | #41

        She like shovels also, but do have a GD, here she is with a Makita triocharging a piece of betacloth off the space station for charge testing.

        View Image

        Edited 11/24/2005 10:47 am ET by junkhound

        1. 4Lorn1 | Nov 24, 2005 10:26pm | #42

          LOL. And here I thought it was a lambswool bonnet scrubbing a ceiling tile. Shows you how much I know.Cute kid. She is going to be a heartbreaker. Better start training the Dobermans and laying out the triple stack razor wire so your prepared in a couple of years to fight off the boys. Also pays to practice the 'what you do to her I do to you' speech. I hear there are still plenty of places in the PNW to hide the bodies. A good thing.Don't know if anyone mentioned it, I did a quick scan to check but didn't see it, but I ran across a neat site with what looks like some decent shovels:http://www.gemplers.com/a/shop/list.asp?UID=200511241222274537051313&SKW=2N3SHOVSThey have flat backs, sawtooth shovels and perforated shovels. And a handy selection guide that will take you to all they have in each category.:http://www.gemplers.com/a/pages/hshovels.asp?UID=200511241222274537051313Down side is they aren't cheap. Of course, given inflation, that $10 shovel 30 years ago would go for, what, maybe $45. So they might not be terribly out of line. And if you get a really nice shovel that fits you, is going to last and is a joy to use that would seem to be not too much to pay.Don't know about too many other trades but electrical work still has places and times where an 'all hands' shovel dance can be an eight hour affair for most of a week. Actually know some contractors who plan major jobs to start with everyone swinging spoons. Sounds silly to have an expensive and well trained electrician down in a ditch but it sorts them out pretty quick. A man who bitches and moans and balks at digging is more likely to give you problems later. A lot of the manhood and personality problems will automatically self-select themselves right off the site. Advantage being if they abandon the job they can't collect unemployment or raise other legal issues.Not uncommon to see a site hire twice as many electricians as they need. Stuff them into a deep, cold, wet hole and let them move earth for a week or two with pick and shovel. Come Monday your down to the number you need. In the long run, given a project which may last a couple of years, it can save money and give you a core of guys who will get you through the tough times.

          1. junkhound | Nov 24, 2005 10:56pm | #43

            That perforated shovel on the web site is one I dont have --  need to keep a lookout for one.

            Pulled the dump truck into the back yard with 2 yards of sand this summer for them to play with, she and her 3 brothers will have nothing to do with 'kids' shovels, they gotta have the real thing and a sandbox big enough to use them in. Even the 3 year old prefers the Ford 4400 backhoe though, have let him dig a hole all by himself sittng on my lap; very closely controlled.

            The piece of cloth is teflon coated fiberglass with a 10 nanometer thick deposited layer of aluminum.  Used for thermal control/sunlight reflection on the station.  Think it costs about $700.00 a square yard! If interested in more detail, e-mail me and I'll email back a few published papers on the type of electrical stuff I normally do.

            The little lady is the grand-daughter, daddy is a BB tai-kwon-do instructor (part time recreation) and grand-daughter has been at it a few years already too, so the guys better be serious. <G> 

          2. DavidxDoud | Nov 24, 2005 11:52pm | #44

            gemplers is a good link - made me think of another company that has a great collection of tools - 'Forestry Suppliers' - lots of neat toys...er..tools that aren't commonly availible - here's a link to their shovel page -

            http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/search.asp?stext=shovel

            just in case you need a stainless steel model - - -

             

             "there's enough for everyone"

        2. kate | Nov 26, 2005 07:18pm | #49

          Way to go!

  10. toolbear | Nov 29, 2005 06:24am | #52

    SHOVELS...

    ToolBear buys a shovel at last.

    HD, White Cap, Orco, Sears, Ganahl's, Lowes. 

    Lowes got my money.  They had the usual $7 junkers, but they also has a Friskars closed back shovel that looked interesting for $26.  Comes with a life time guarantee (of the original owner, not the shovel).

    Interesting design - oval steel handle, closed back (because it was never opened), big turned steps for stomping.  The handle runs down between the steps and is welded to the blade. 

    In a place with winter, I would not buy a steel handle, but here in SoCal, where the snow doesn't fall, I can get away with it.   We had it out stripping forms and such today in the warm California sunshine. 

    The only other pro shovel found on this quest was a very nice closed back trench shovel at Ganahl's.  Their round nose selection was low grade.  So it goes.  For the serious, buying on line seems to be the way.  Try the horticultural suppliers and foresters.

    FWIW - Am told that the President of my company gets our shovels from garage sales.  Might be true.  They are quite a varied collection.

     

     

    The ToolBear

    "Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.

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