Replies

1. 
   JohnSprung | Apr 01, 2002 08:47pm | #1

   In addition to keeping the crowns in the same direction, you could also sort them by the amount of crown to keep the change from one to the next to a minimum.  Lay them down side by side to check.

   -- J.S.

1. 
   danz857 | Apr 01, 2002 08:56pm | #2

   Thanks John will keep that mind still have lots to do....

2. 
   kartman0 | Apr 01, 2002 09:10pm | #3

   Ok, for this newbie could someone explain what the 'crown' is and its importance for 2x4 framing in the application mentioned in this thread? I, too, will be framing 2x4 walls in my basement along the poured concrete walls. This is more a part of a Home theater project then finishing the basement, but anything I learn will help when I do finish the rest of the basement as well. Any assiatnce and or enlightenment is appreciated.

1. 
   MrPita2 | Apr 01, 2002 09:32pm | #4

   "Crown" is curvature of the stud.  Ideally a stud will be like "|" but too often will be like "(" - exaggerated.  The crown is the convex side, and you want all these to go the same way.  So "(" would be crown left, ")" would be crown right. 

   ((((((( will build a uniform wall, even if it's not perfectly straight. 

   But if you put the studs in like (((()(((  you may get a noticeable dip or bow in the wall, once you put the drywall (or whatever) up. 

   I don't know of any particular standard for how much is acceptable.  Rough guess, I'd say 1/4"  to 1/2" inch difference between end and mid points is too much for an 8' stud, especially if you're not paying attention to crown.  When you reverse the crown between two adjoining studs, the difference effectively doubles.  So a 3/8" crown on the two might give a much more noticeable dip of 3/4" in a typical span of 16". 

   If everything seems to be going well, you've obviously overlooked something.

   Edited 4/1/2002 2:34:06 PM ET by Mr. Pita

2. 
   CloudHidden | Apr 01, 2002 09:38pm | #5

   It comes from the days of old England, where the wood culled from the forests was split into boards from the side of the tree that faced the King's palace (hence "crown") , boards from the side that faced the archers' houses (hence "bowed"), and those that faced the commoners huts (hence "common" lumber). Lore had it that crowned lumber was of better quality and you wouldn't want to mix it with common lumber. Crowned lumber and bowed lumber were closer in quality and just from different sides of the same board.

   Make sense? Oh well....April Fool!

3. 
   PhillGiles | Apr 01, 2002 10:20pm | #7

   Look at steel studs before you commit to the 2x4's. You will need a drywall screwgun and "snips" to do the job. .

   Phill Giles

   The Unionville Woodwright

   Unionville, Ontario

1. 
   jimblodgett | Apr 01, 2002 10:36pm | #8

   Another thing, beside crowning studs, is to recognize that you'll get studs that are 3+7/16, or 3+9/16 wide pretty regularly too. So when framing walls flat and standing them up it helps to decide which face of the wall will be toward the room - and taking care to align the face of the studs with the edge of the plates that will face the room. Then, any deviations will end up towards the space between the framing and the concrete wall. You are going to leave a space there, right?

   Another vote for steel studs in this application. A better choice, hands down.

   Edited 4/1/2002 3:58:35 PM ET by jim blodgett

1. 
   danz857 | Apr 01, 2002 11:56pm | #9

   Good suggestion but I am also doing some partition framing. Maybe I should look into steel for the framing. I hate to tell youns what I am paying for this so called top choice lumber maybe I should be looking in the select bin (which I have only been using for nailers) since there  doesnt seem to be much difference in the straightness of the studs.  One thing I have is an whole new appreciation for all you rough carpenters out there. Thanks again for all the input....

     

4. 
   danz857 | Apr 02, 2002 12:15am | #10

   I would take everybody's advice and go with the steel framing, I may be wanting things too perfect but it can get frustrating working with this lumber that is sold today.

1. 
   coonass | Apr 02, 2002 02:27am | #11

   danz,

   You can straighten the bows by running a string 3/4" off the wall from one end to the other. Cut a saw kerf and pound a wedge with glue on it to take bow out. Shoot a 2' scab on the side. I always do cabinet and chair rail walls like this.

   KK

1. 
   kartman0 | Apr 02, 2002 04:42pm | #12

   I don't know where all of you are living, but it must be in a very humid place and one that sells Twisty;s Brand twisted lumber! I'm not advocating anyone's lumber product, but I can observe with my own two eyes and picky mentality to note that there are varying degrees of lumber quality that can be bought.

   With the exception of engineered lumber, I can usually get good lumber from Lowes, to a lesser extent from Home Depot, and the worse from the traditional yards. Although I did recently buy a couple of LVLs from HD, I plan on purchasing my next batch of traditional lumber from Lowes.

   No, I am not a builder and working for anyone but myself, so time is not a fleeting condition for me. If I pickup 50 pieces of 2x4 in the same length and 10 are not acceptable then the home improvement stores will happily let me exchange it. If some of what I buy is for temporary use then it does not matter too much.

   And since I am buying with the intention of covering it up (sheathing, drywall, etc., I do not see the problem as I've stayed away from the truly terrible lumber stock and will exchange the worse pieces from the best sources. OTOH, since builders are not buying/using for the customer's benefit (they build for themselve in the cheapist manner possible in track building) then ... draw your own conclusions.

   I am not considering steel as the last thing I want is additional conductive material anywhere near $20-25K worth of electronic equipment in this room. Also, the ability to keep the metal framing quiet in environments of lots of sound is not easily controllable or noted. Although metal may have some noted benefits, concerns mention above are only the starting point.

   I am not against metal for traditional framing applications, but for my application I feel differently. Cheers!

2. 
   PhillGiles | Apr 02, 2002 05:29pm | #13

   Multi-million dollar main-frames had/have steel framing and structure componets on six sides and those raised floors were aluminum (on steel posts): a few steel studs will not affect you TV..

   Phill Giles

   The Unionville Woodwright

   Unionville, Ontario

3. 
   kartman0 | Apr 02, 2002 06:10pm | #14

   Phill,

   That is an easy position to place yourself in when you are not spending your personal money and do not budget for $500K power protection systems. Also, I am a lot more comfortable with my PC taking an electrical hit than say a state of the art $10K projector.

   Besides, comfort in the DIY is best entertained with using what one feels the most comfort in, both from a physical (i.e. handling the materials) and mental (logical, rational, ane aestetic/emotional) position.

   You are a lot more comfortable than I in working with metal. So go use it. I am a lot more comfortable working with wood. Guess what I'll use? Cheers!

   PS I am not knocking metal in any way shape or form. Metal framing is a valid alternative just like other meathods for building and renovating activities. But if its a DIY then would it not, usually, be wise to use what one is familiar with than exploring different methods and potentially creating a disaster (not to mention waste money and time)?

4. 
   JohnSprung | Apr 02, 2002 08:37pm | #15

   What I've done on my little remodel is buy the wood long before I need it, and leave it stacked in the house with stickers of old lath between every piece.  Some of what was straight at HD stays fairly straight, and some of it turns into pretzels. 

   The funny thing about HD's lumber is that you find Select Structual in the same stack with #2, and for the same price.  It's surprising how few people know what those stamps mean.  An employee at a supposedly traditional lumber yard near here even told me that Standard & Better was the same as Construction grade. 

   Lowe's talks about how nice their lumber is in their TV commercials.  They're farther away, but some day I'll take a look.  Lumber is a vegetable, you have to pick and choose just as you would with tomatoes or melons.

   -- J.S.

5. 
   kartman0 | Apr 02, 2002 09:06pm | #16

   I chose my lumber like I chose my women (wife), very carefully and having the ability to support my needs without causing a lot of stress.  :D

2. 
   Reg | Apr 01, 2002 10:18pm | #6

   Thus the reason steel studs are increasingly popular and shim stock can now be bought over the counter (no more ripping 1/8" strips) and power planes are nearly a must and even razor sharp hatchets are being seen again.  Lumber simply is not what it used to be, but if you are expected to accept lumber from supplier with bows 3/16" or more, then find another outlet.  Sounds like you are picking up the trash that others throw aside when they go through the pile (those "culls" are just put back on top again with the hope that someone will buy them).

   Just some thoughts.  Randy Rogers (not Raynchylde)

3. 
   NPitz | Apr 02, 2002 10:52pm | #17

   With regards to the original question, I try for a tolerance of less than 1/8" of an inch (actually, less then 1/16", but that's just me) from one stud to the next. Use a good straghtedge across the face of them. Really bad gaps might get kerfed and bent like someone said, or a ripping applied to the face. The best thing for shimming walls that I have found is strips of #30 felt or ice guard, stapled to the face.

4. 
   r_ignacki | Apr 03, 2002 01:40am | #18

   Danz, you are doing the work for yourself, you can make it as good as you care for. Do the straight edge routine, plane, shim, fur, pad, cut & wedge,use metal studs, hell, I 've even heard of finger jointed studs, to tell you the truth, if you are paying for a renovation, take a whole house for instance, the primary rooms I'll check, MBR, MB, Kit, or anything in the line of sight, get fixed if needed,  a basement room? HA, the drywaller will take care of it.(he won't) Not unreasonable for a basment finish job though.

     

   
   

   ---

   Edited 4/2/2002 6:43:23 PM ET by panama red

1. 
   AaronSpies | Apr 03, 2002 02:33am | #19

   resilient (spelling?) channel.  I have used it on old walls and ceilings that were up to a half inch out.  looked pretty good afterwards.  pretty damn good.

   RC channel.  it's your friend.