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I was pondering the subject of sick time and how it’s handled in different companies. More in first post.
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Should companies give sick time? I currently work for a company that doesn't. But it's the first one.
I can see both sides of the issue - Companies don't want people to abuse their sick time. There are plently of guys who will mysteriously get "sick" as soon as they get a full day of sick time built up. (Can you say "Brown Bottle Flu"?) I've even stretched the truth on sick time a bit myself once or twice.
But people
b DO
legitimately get sick. So what should they do? Use vacation time? Or work extra when they get well and make up the time? Or take unpaid time?
What about kids? Should you be allowed to use your own vacation time to take care of a sick kid?
I was thinking about this today, as they put my youngest Son in the hospital last night with pneumonia. DW is a teacher - She has 10 days a year of sick time, and they let her take it for our Son. We have retired parents that could sit with him, but she took/is taking probably 3 sick days. And why shouldn't she? They're "free", right?
Just wanted to tap into the vast wisdom and intellect of you folks and see what your thoughts were. I stuck this in the business section, since it's a business decision. Maybe it would be better in the tavern? But I was kinda thinking about it as a business decision.
*If you're sick, you can go into work and threaten to get everyone else sick if you don't get the day paid...It's a mixed bag, as you well note. The policies will depend on who's paying. If the real boss (the one who signs the check) sees revenue and expenses at a very personal level (i.e., money into or out of his/her pocket), they're less likely to offer sick pay. Most of the contractors on my house wouldn't do it be/c it was a direct cost to them. If the "check signer" is something less personal--the taxpayers, a faceless corp--then they're more likely to offer it because the cost of the sick day is not all that direct or personal. It's not money out of any one pocket.When my company was small, I knew that the people working with me wouldn't abuse it, so I didn't worry if they left to pick up kids early or whatever. I knew they put in extra time, too, when necessary. As we grew, I started questioning that practice as the new, less well known people took greater advantage of it (me).On the house, I sure wasn't gonna pay a contractor for hours that his guy was home sick for. But when the guy who worked directly for me threw his back out lifting something (our only lost-time accident in 2.5 years), I paid his 1 1/2 days off even though he didn't expect it.
*My company (IT consultant firm) doesn't officially have sick time. It's all a honor based system. They will pay sick time when warranted. But, we can only take up to five days a year before we have to start getting doctor's notes for absences, etc. Some do abuse it, but the 5 day limit helps cut down abuse. But, it's not like we''re entitled to 5 days/year, like at some places where you can "cash in" unused sick time at the end of the year, or rollover to the next year. Depending on the account/manager, we get flex time as well for doctor appts., etc.As for me, last year I think I was sick maybe 4-5 times where I stayed home. Some legitimately stay-in-bed sick, some were "not feeling as good as I usually do, I need a rest" days, you know? But, I only took one actual sick day - the others were unexpected vacation days. My manager shows respect to me enough to give me flex time, I'll "punish" myself by taking a vacation day even though I could rightfully take it as sick. It also depends in my company on your manager/account. I know with my present arrangement, if I work (4) 9+ hour days, I can usually get a half day on Friday without having to waste 1/2 a vacation day. Some managers aren't that easy, you work the full 8 hours on Friday, even if you put in (4) 20 hour days. Without that flex time, I know that I'd be more likely to abuse sick time.
*I have worked jobs on both sides of the fence. One job had flex time with 2 weeks vacation and 5 sick days a year. The policy was very simple, as long as you finished all your projects and worked 40 hours a week then they didn't care what you did with your allotted time off. In the summer I use to come in to work real early and leave early to go surfing at the beach or put in over time and take half day on Friday. Everyone was responsible and always finished there projects and we never had any problems. Everyone felt very motivated to do the best job possible and the moral was very high.My other job was you absolutely had to be at work on time, even one minute late the boss got kind of ticked off. Sick days where only for sick time, no time for your kids etc.... and no matter how many hours you worked you never left early. Everyone at work was always trying to take advantage of the situation when ever they could because people felt they where being treated unfairly. The companies that are slave drivers and very strict on sick time etc.. are just shooting themselves in the foot. The employees have no motivation, don't like the situation and will never work that hard, just doing enough to barely get by. I once worked for a manufacturing company that had 5 sick days a year but for the production employees they would get written up every time they took a sick day and once you where written up 3 times you lost your job. Never did figure that one out. Big time double standard compared to the office employees. I guess when you live in a right to work state they can get away with this kind of stuff.I use to work with this commercial electrical contractor (he is a GC now) on commercial TI jobs (100k sqft plus)and every year he would take his entire crew (about 8 guys) on a one week vacation to go skiing etc.. just to say thanks for all the hard work for the past year. He was making money hand over fist and treated his guys like royalty. These guys would do anything for him. Very unusual of course.
*In our world, you get paid for the hours worked. Period.Yeah....it sounds hard, but it's a hard world.Hey, we'd give sick days if we could afford it, but we can't and it's no fault of ours......it's a "how much will our market bare" kinda thing. We can only charge so much, and it don't include sick days, vacation, medical insurance.......you name it, we can't offer it.Anybody out there got balls enough to come to work with us?Ed.
*If I did this for real, the first thing I would do is join union. Just as it takes years to become a competent carpenter, it takes years to learn the business of earning a living. This is where a union with all its faults can help.MDF_user
*Ed, You couldn't handle me. I would demand to work weekends with no pay!
*At my last employer (remodel GC) employees would receive 40 hrs. paid personal leave after 2 yrs. with the company, at four years 80 hrs. total personal leave (to be used per year, with no carry over to the next year if not used). This 'personal leave time' was to be used for sick days, vacation, whatever. You had to give 2 weeks notice (other than sick). If you were sick and did not have any leave time available then of course no pay. Guys that took a lot of unpaid sick days found their jobs on the line, because they were jeopardizing production schedules. Additional benefits included 6 paid holidays per year, profit sharing, Simple IRA contributions, and $60 employer monthly contribution to health insurance. With these benefits, employer justified lower than going rates for laborers, carpenters, leads, etc..
*Gunner,You strike a hard bargin. Would you settle for no paid holidays?Ed.
*Actually how a company handles fringes like sick time depends on how the company sees its' market and its' employees AND how the employees see their role.I suspect most construction outfits have the view that employees aren't ever going to retire out of the company, that life is too full of ups and downs to promise long term jobs and that when profits get squeezed out go the expensive guys to hire someone cheaper. For their part most construction employees don't think of what they do as careers, more like jobs. So, it isn't what you promise for the future; it is what are you putting in my pocket now in their minds.Oh they talk about hanging on to employees and paying wages to keep them, but in fact that is all it is. Their actions say different. I haven't found very many small businesses in any industry, let alone this one, that have gotten a payback in either employee loyalty, employee retention, or anything else from fringes like sick time, retirement, etc. Employees seem to come and go based on their own motives, immediate income, and the leadership ability of the boss.And in reality construction really isn't a business where very many people do it their whole working lives. Those few who do have either found their specialized niche, or have moved on to run their own business. If they are running their own business they aren't really in the trades any more. They are business owners, or as I call them "suits in denim".My vote? Treat your people really well as short term(5-10 year) employees. That means Really Good Wages, school if they want, uniforms, tool allowances, health care, etc. Vacation? Take your vacation in the off-season. Sick time? I'm paying you enough for you not to get hurt too bad if you have to take a day off. But, if you can work I want you on the job, just like me. Well you get the idea.
*FredB,Man, you got the picture. That's the way it is and always has been.I pay all I can pay. If an employee wants all the perks, he's going to have to work for a lot less. At one time, I gave the option. Nobody wanted a cut in pay for the benefits. There it is, there you go, and there you have it.......the masses have spoken.All you guys out there who whine over no benefits? Go somewhere else. The corporate world wants you. They can wine and dine you and then dump you. If that's what you want, you're not cut out for construction. I'm not your freakin' father. And I'm not responsible for the rest of you life either nor do I care to be.Does that offend you? Get over it or get out.Ed.
*just last year we got 40 hours of sick time, 40 hours of vacation time. In reality it's 80 hours of 'personal' time (that doesn't carry over annually, but you can cash in unused time at the end of the year). we don't get any other 'benefits' (besides wages, ha ha). in the past our boss has offered the choice of medical or extra pay and everyone chose extra pay AFAIK.I'm curious about this whole thing b/c I'm wondering if you get more for your dollar if you offer benefits over pay b/c benefit dollars aren't taxed?of course some guys would prefer to choose how they spend their dollars.best, GO
*Ed, O.K. no paid holidays it is.
*We have a couple of benefits for our employees. One is health insurance which we pay fully for the employee and he can pay for his family. It is not the best policy that money can buy but it still costs us plenty. We began this benefit at the request of our employees in lieu of more pay.The other benefit doesn't cost us a dime. Our employees can take off all the time they want. Vacation, sick days, holidays, basketball games, whatever. They just don't get paid. Most of them like this more than their health insurance.
*Gunner,You sound like you can handle it.......To be fair, I'm really not such a jerk like I sound. Many, MANY times in the past, the company will pay someone if they miss some time for a good reason. We can't afford to give 18 people a weeks paid vaction and a week off sick, but I've been known to help out a good guy in a pinch. We don't have a budget for that kind of thing, it just comes out of my pocket.Ed.