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This might be a dead subject so forgive me if this is a boring topic. I am a West coaster and, of course, grew up with worm drive saws. I always figured sidewinders were all but worthless except for those odd cuts where a wormdrive just wouldn’t physically work. Well I’m now living in Georgia and though I expected to see more sidewinders in use down here, I’ve been surprised at the scarcity of wormdrives. One co-worker had never even seen a wormdrive, he thought it was some wierd specialty tool. And HD doesn’t even sell a wormdrive. I knock the little diamond shaped punch out out of a new saw blade and other carpenters think I’ve ruined it. I don’t have anything against sidewinders (besides not being able to cut anything with one). I’m just curious about this regional difference. Is there a logical explanation? Missing wormdrive land……
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wormdrives are essential equipment for knuckle -draggers..
edicted carps in the east use sidewinders....
own both.. only drag out the worm when i'm tryin to impress the girls with my 8 1/4" skill....
seriously... why would anyone wanna lug one of those roof anchors around ?
or for that matter.... drive chevy's ?
*There's a perfectly rational explanation, Dylan, evolution. 'Nuff said.
*huh... jimbo .. yur soooo easy...hah, hah, hah...
*chucklin' and grinnin' ear to ear...gotta go snuggle
*Dylan,The reason wormdrives are more common on the West coast is, most likely, due to the fact that the original worm-drive, introduced by Skil in the '20's, were mainly marketed to Western builders. The competing sidewinders, introduced by Porter-Cable later in that same decade, were targeted to the East coasters.West coast (California) production builders tend to cut their lumber while resting the stock on their foot and letting the saw's weight make the cut. East coasters tend to use saw horses when cutting. I guess that's why the blade on sidewinders is on the wrong side. (unless your a lefty)BTW, you can find a bunch of sidewinder saws in the <$50 range marketed to the Weekend Warrior. Saws that aren't meant to work more than a couple times a year. Worm-drives, however, are the true Professional's saw, just try to find a WW version.
*uh huh, uh huh, say it again.
*Dylan,Yes, there's a perfectly logical explanation: Westerners know what's up. We're da shit.Evolution....I like that Jim, and I think you're right.
*Over here on the east coast using my wormdrive everyday smiling ear to ear.......
*drivin my f**d to work every day to go make kindlin with my left -hand PC sidewinder....and throwing the 8 1/4" Skill in the back for better traction....
*GN, Yes, but which came first? Using the weight of the saw to help with the cut, or the saw? I reckon worm drive users cut the way they do because of the saw they use, and sidewinder users, likewise. BTW, I literally inherited the Skil wormdrive I'm using now. I don't know how old that sucker is but I know it was cutting 2x4's long before I first picked up a hammer. I also have an 8 1/4 I bought off a guy for $50. He had used it to cut concrete and never cleaned it up after. Took me 10 minutes to free everything up and now it works like a charm. The box it came in had $50 worth of brand new blades in the bottom!
*i Using the weight to help with the cut.That's a good one. It's just that you have to pick the damned thing up and put it back down 300 times a day. We have two Skil 8 1/4 wormdrives that we use only for roof demo. We buy lots of 24 tooth carbide blades and slice right through the shingles, plywood, nails, rafters, everything in one pass. The Skil never slows down.Over by the sawhorses, there is a shiny sidewinder.
*War, goodgodya'llwhat is it good for....
*Dylan,I think cutting technique came from the need for production not the due to the weight of the tool. It's faster to have the saw close to the production area, rather than having to drag stock over to the saw horses and then back over to where it needs to go.We have all wormdrives on my crew. One guy had a sidewinder in the back of his truck and someone asked why he brought his girl friend's saw to work. Haven't seen it since.Check out this sight if your interested in a little history on the Skil Worm-drive.http://www.skil.com/About+Skil/About+Sub+Pages/Est+1924.htm
*GN, Hadn't thought of it that way. Thnx for the link. Dylan
*Interesting that the Model 77 is at the top of their product foodchain. Seems to be their only non-DIY tool.
*Half n half, here and there but i was a military kid.My girl friend use to be a palm sander.I guess golf use to be played with one club before a seal learned to crack a shell with another. Does anyone know how to spell chimpanzies?I hear they can use sticks and rocks.Evolution i guess.
*Hey, them saw horses are mobile, move them to where you need them. They are called saw horses not saw lead-bricks-bolted-to-the-floor. I bet you guys who cut 2x4's with a wormdrive use a shotgun to kill cockroaches. I got a Sthil MS310 Chain saw but I don't use it to prune my bushes. I got a sledge hammer but I don't use it to drive finish nails. Why would I use my wormdrive to cut thin stuff. Worm drives are great for what they are designed for. Next time I'm using 16d nails for my chairail, I'll think of you.
*Me big Neanderthal with big Cali hammer and big saw. Ug!
*I know a 155 lb skinny framer who brings in a wormdrive and sidewinder everyday and uses each as it suits him.I think one gets used as much as the other all in all.Sometimes he cuts off horses and other times the deck.Ralph thinks Old Slim shouldn't be cutting 2x4's with a wormdrive.After 30 years of doing it even.
*Ralph27,So, in order to make a cut, I got to pick up the stock, drag it over to where I'm working, then go drag the saw horses over, then make the cut? Yea, that's efficient. How about the 10 other guys I got working with me, does that mean I need to make 22 individual saw horses to satisfy the crew or do we run around the work site pulling the saw horses around?Maybe Jurassic Moen can enlighten us?Actually, I use the shop's sidewinder to kill the cockroaches. That's about all the cut it can handle.You should see them roaches fly.......
*LOL, you guys are too funny. The worm drive saw is a framing saw designed to get into tight places, primarily cut construction lumber, 2x4's etc, and do it fast. It's probably more prevalent on the West Coast because the majority of the homes here are stick framed. In addition to being stick framed the rate of construction of new homes on the west coast likely out paces the east coast by a fairly large margin. Someone once said "Go West Young Man". A bunch of you did and so we needed to build you cheap houses fast. We did it with a worm drive saw. Just something to think about that the next time you debate evolution. Humor intended, just in case you've evolved to far to catch it.
*Steve- Beautifully stated. LOLOLOLOLOLOL -Ken (another Westerner using a boat anchor to cut framing lumber)
*Another urban legend is that the wood used during the big expansion on the west coast was tough to cut, often green, and cut "large"; given the electric motor and blade technology of the day, only a worm-drive saw could consistently cut through the stuff. Even with the 8 to 8.25" blades that were common during that era, high-power side-winders had quite shallow depth of cuts.
*youse gusy are stuck in the past... this ain't the '70's no more.. we got thin rim carbide blades , high rpm saws with lots of power.... and a 7.25 " saw is a 7.25 " saw... and an 8 is an 8.. so get over it... the old ways ain't the best ways.... cutting in the air.. or cutting on the ground.. makes no difference... my lefty pc is all the saw i need for cutting framing... if i want timber cuts i'll have the saw bearer bring my 10" Milwaulkee over and grab me by the belt loops when i start it up...... other than that ... y wud you want to lug all that weight around just to be one of the boys...you're an idiot if you think you got a monopoly on stick framing on the west coast.... hah, hah, hah....where do you think they invented the tract house.?.. i'll give you a hint.. it was called levittown... and it couldn't be any more east coast than that....
*I've always wondered where the dividing line is. Could there be some town in the Midwest where one side of the tracks are wormdrive people and the other side is the Sidewinder gang?In Peace and Wormdrive Partnership,Martin
*I'll tell the story. The Skil tool company based in Chicago Illinois invented this amazing tool in the 1920's. It was called the portable electric circular saw. The blade was located on the left side and it used a worm gear to achieve more power with a smaller motor. This amazing tool really impressed the carpenters as the best portable saw was a handsaw. So Porter Cable located in New York wanted a piece of the action. So they came up with a saw that had an Helical gear(sidewinder) as opposed to the wormdive and put the blade on the opposite side to avoid patenting problems. This is how the blade sides and gears came into play. As for parts of the country. It's obvious. The closest companys were the cheapest due to transportation costs. I live in Canada and in Toronto they all use wormdrives and set up temporary power. But when I moved to Ottawa I was suprised to see all there cutting done with chainsaws. I hate this practice. But that's the story.
*Here in Montreal Quebec a worm drive is rarely seen. How much time do you guys think a builder can save using one saw or the other? If the liter tool gets the job done as efficiently give me the one that makes me less tired at the end of the day. I can easily cut wood without saw horses and a good framing crew cuts off the stack not their feet!
*Hey, Rhode Island Mike- How come each time you post on this thread your big saw keeps gettin' bigger? First you had the 8 1/2" Skil, now you got the 10" Milwaukee- gonna be the 14" Mak next I suppose. Gonna eventually tell us you have a sawmill? Wazzupwiddat? :o) :o) :o) -Ken
*Ken, those are just Mike's trim saws. ;o)
*ken , u jealous bastid.... i bought the milwaulkee cause i thot we were gonna get a dock job with a lot of 3x10 pt decking... didn't get the job.. still got the saw... but i do like to have one of the young dudes carry it for me... and when you pull the trigger the gyroscope action moves the sucker in an arc... the cord on that thing is a #10... at least 1x a year i use the 8" & the 10" just so they see the light of day... then back in the shop with 'em.... while me & my lefty pc sing hi, ho, hi, ho....hey, who's tellin this tale anyways ?that's my story & i'm stickin to it...
*You guys are still crackin me up.. Thanks for the humor, I need it. By the way, thanks to the right coast for giving the leftys a job in the tract house building industry. That idea saved a lot of jobs when times were tough. And Mike S, if you get a chance to see the "This Old House" that has a takeout on building a timber barn, (I think thats what its called). Anywho, I think they show Norm using either a 12 or 14 inch sidewinder. That would scare the heck outa me but it just shows you that there is a time and a place for everything.
*GN LetourneauWhat I ment was, use the saws as you need em. It just seems that some poeple just use a stronger saw(both sidewinder and worm)Or bigger tools in general, just because its somekind of macho big guns thing. If you like a saw use it, I was just trying to be humorous. Never thought of that large a crew for the sawhorses thou, you make a good point. The stealing of sawhorses would be what would happen around here. I usually work with a smaller crew that are a bunch of comedians. You might just find your saw horses in trees or hiding on the roof. They tend to be very mobile sometimes. Don't ever leave your tool belt laying around unattended, it will be nailed down. That might make a good thread, jobsite pranks.
*Steve, Hey we've got one of those 16 5/16" Makita sidewinders and fyi they are smooth pussycats not fearsome beasts. I wouldn't go ripping lattice with it, but then I wouldn't think of doing that with the worm drive either. When you only want to carry one saw for the multitude of jobs, it's gonna be a sidewinder. Or do you western trim guys cut your paneling with worms as well ?
*Tim, worms take too long and its hard to train them to eat in a straight line. I love my sidewinder, cheap ole piece of junk just keeps on chuggin.
*HEY ANDY! Mike just called Ken (my neighbor and a loyal wormdrive user) a "bastid"! ANDEEEEEEEEEEE!
*Mike, what do ya think of the 10" Milwaukee? ....... thinkin' about it for timber work.
*at the boatshop where i used to work we had built a table to use the 17" makita to scarf plywood. never did like pushing full sheets at that blade, which in our setup was fully exposed (no guard)
*Hey, Right-Coast Mike- I've been thinkin' about that PC lefty, it IS light and has a big ole table, found one for $70 ( 'Framesaw', right?).........You'd still have to do more to convince me.......maybe Crazy Legs can make me come to my senses. -Ken (left coaster with my favorite old hypoid in my right hand)
*Your absolutely right Ralph. Good point.
*jcallahan... the 10" Milw. is great IF you need a 10" saw... i think it's superior to the Big Foot setup.. but it's a heavy saw... tiring for horizontal cuts and anything you have to fight gravity on...it has an auxilliary handle which i always use for anything other than gravity assisted cuts..my PC lefty is a nice framing saw if you like sidewinders... replaced my old rockwell 315 (?).. which i keep for my beater saw...
*I have a 8 1/4" Milwaukee worm drive (in Illinois). Love pulling it out when I'm working and saying "Mine's bigger 'n yours". Really like the thing, even though it's heavy. Don't think I've ever stopped the blade. The old sidewinder I had would either stall the motor, or the blade would slip. If I'm cutting underlayment, and no one is around, I get out the 6" B&D I have. It's awfull nice to have a lighter saw for easy cuts. But generally, I don't want people to think I'm into B&D.