I have a water issue with my fireplace / chimney. When it rains hard, water has been coming in thru the front part of the fireplace between the chimney and the house (not down the chimney, and chimney has a cap). I had the flashing around the chimney checked and it received a thumbs up (roof is only a year old). I also had a chimney guy come out to clean and check the chimney and all is good.
A friend, who is a contruction project manager, thought it was a problem with the flashing under the siding (hardiplank, 3 yrs old) where it meets the external chimney (brick, runs 2 stories up). He thought some of the flashing looked like it was installed backward. Would this cause water to come in?
I have called many siding companies and handyman services but it seems everyone is very busy right now and this is too small to fit into anyones schedule until December. I am pretty handy and thought I could tackle it myself if I knew more about flashing under the siding and what is the correct way for it to be installed, etc. Does any one have any tips or suggestions for me? Or other reasons why this would be happening?
Greta Girl
Oregon
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can post of a picture of this???
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Backwards flashing will definitely scoop water in. Any lap that faces uphill is wrong. in roofing, siding, and flashing, ALL laps MUST fACE DOWNHILL. Common saying about this is "Think like a drop of water"
How wide is this chase? Too wide and it also needs to have a criket to divert water or iot can be trapped and not flow off fast enough and is then forced to find a way inside.
Also - it sounds like what you have is not a real chimney but a veneered wood framed chase for a metal chimney flue. This is notoriously hard to do right, especially if done cheaply by a major house builder using the cheapest subcontractors, rather than done well by a custom tradesman.
It is likely to require taking the siding off, probably several shingles too, and re-flashing correctly, placing tarpaper or ice and water shield above the base flashing up the chase and then re-installing thesiding and shingles.
Flashing details on chimneys and chases is highly skilled work. We just had a couple of other threads on this subject in the past week or so if you can find them with the advanced search feature.
Anyway - if you are having a hard tiome finding the right tradesman right now - you can do a temporary repair by inseerting the tip of a caulk gun into any lap facing the wrong way and filling it with something like silicone or geocel caulk, then smoothing off the ooze out sao it does not form a damn. This should not be thought of as a real "fix" bnecause it will only last a few years at most, and will probably only stop 80-90% of the leak. That is enough to make you forget about it and think it is fixed, so be persistant.
Finally, most states have some sort of protection from bad practices and unprofessional work. So if this was improperly done to begin with, you have protection under statute and cause to force the builder to repair it, even if somewhat beyond warrantee. you should have documented your attempts to get him to have it fixed, with copies of letters written, a log of phone calls made, and photos of the problem. From what little I hear, and not being able to see from my house to yours( Google earth isn't quite THAT GOOD yet - maybe you can get us a photo or two when you climb up there) this is a case of a conbination of poor design and bad workmanship.
Good luck Greta Girl
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You're saying this is an issue with the chimney-siding interface? How does the chimney relate to the roof? Agree with others, some pics would be useful.
FWIW there was a thread on a similar topic that may be good reading:
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=79798.1
I have enclosed some pictures and also more information on what I discovered yesterday.I think there are 2 problems: (A) The trim around the chimney had a significant gap (was not tight to the brick). When comparing to neighboring houses with the same chimney/similar house, the trim was tight to the chimney. (B) The flashing on the chimney ledge was installed with the metal bent down behind the brick vs. up behind the siding.When I pulled off the trim and some siding/tar paper, the board (OSB?) right along the brick chimney was crumbling away from the ledge down, but only on the right side of the chimney. This is where the water was coming from, I am sure. Everything above the ledge was ok. With the help of a friend, I've replaced the board, and started putting the tar paper back up. I started replacing the gapping 2x2 trim with 2x4 cedar to ensure a tight fit. But I am not sure what is the proper way to put the flashing on that ledge. I have enclosed an illustration of what I think I should do. Can anyone verify or give suggestions?Thanks!
Greta Girl
Wow, great illustrations. The ledge on that chimney is problematic, obviously. I'd extend the flashing quite a ways out onto the top of the brick, and ideally it should be a single piece that is bent and soldered to abut the side of the vertical brick, come across the wall, and then wrap down over the end of the ledge, with vertical legs behind the tarpaper everywhere. That's probably not a very good description, maybe I'll sketch it out. Piffin should be along with good ideas shortly.
The vertical joint between wood and brick is another matter. Yes, having the wood tight to the brick helps, but it doesn't constitute proper waterproofing.
Your description of the flashing makes sense.I was up in the middle of the night because the rain was really coming down. I was so worried since it's not done yet but no water came in the fireplace, not even a drop! Big change from the buckets that were under there last rain. The tar paper (siding felt) has warped so much from the rain though. I think I will need to replace it if it doesn't flatten out once it dries.Greta Girl
GREAT GOBS OF GOOBERS, GIRL!!!;)If you are this capable, half of Breaktime will be wanting to run away with you! whoever placed that base flashing fist go-round was a complete idiot. My daughter figured out something similar when she was twleve years old!I had no idea of what you were facing until I saw the photo. Disregard what I said previous for the most part. That is poor design of the chimney. It does appear that it is a real masonry chimney and firebox. But from the text I read while waiting photo download, I was just getting more confused. I could not imagine what kind of ledge you weree both speaking of...Any fireplace/chimney I have ever seen with sides like that always sloped them off at 45° for water to shed and then there is still water problems after 20-30 years. These also generally slope the side direction so the top is at the verticle chimney and the lowest part of the slope is to the side of it. Then the same or similar flshing that runs up the wall intersection is run along that slope intersect.My advice is to make the flashing so it is a complete cap over the wing shelf on both sides. Where it intersects the vertical side of the chimney, you will still need a good caulk that will stay flexable like Geocell, not silicone. What you have sketched in the second rendition is the correct relationship between base flashing and the cap flashing in the wall, but the base needs to be as David said, a Z- pan that extends all the way over the top of the ledge and then drops down the front a couple of inches.
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Thank you all so much! Once I get the flashing bent, I will snap another photo and upload it just to make sure I am on the right track.I hope this is the last bad-workmanship issue I find on this house but I'm not holding my breath!Greta Girl
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Our last house had a chimney with steep shoulders on both sides. No flashing, but no insulation either so all the water that got in over the years dried out and no one was the wiser. When I remodeled and insulated I had a tin man make up some big galv caps that went behind the felt and into mortar joints above the shoulders. I could not see a way to flash adequately with less. My historical-accuracy-minded wife was a bit taken aback at all the metal, but it's better than a bunch of dryrot.
re: historical - I have seen a couple really old ones like that with sheet lead
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I've gotta say as a left-coaster that I've hardly ever seen lead flashing. I did have a guy once who had use make some dampeners out of sheet lead so that water dripping down his downspouts wouldn't make a dripping sound hitting the bottom elbow. That guy was a wicked piece of work.