Noticed my board and batten siding was coming off house when I pulled old ledger board off, it was attached to siding. I figure the nails have all rusted, 120 years old one block from ocean. Anyway, once I strip all the paint I’ll see the old nails (hopefully) and re-nail everything with stainless. Wood is 1″ thick, what size and length nail do I need? Saw an add on Craigslist for 6D 2″ ring shank SS, wondered if they would work. Loose nails, hand drive.
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Replies
I wouldn't go under 2 1/2.
What's behind the siding? I would get nails long enough to go thru the board + the batt, but there's nothing gained with a nail sticking out of the back.
house is balloon framed, true 2x4's every 4-5', than horizontal members every 3' or so. I'll be nailing through siding into these.
Check your local Lowe's.
Ours has SS 8d (2 1/2") siding nails marked down for clearance from $18.99/lb to $6.99/lb.
The 6d SS nails are marked down to $9.99/lb.
is 8D thicker than 6D? I would think it would be the more expensive of the two. Never saw SS at my Lowes, might have missed them though.
just called the Lowes by me, no sale. the one by the beach house has 8D at 3.85 per pound. my local Lowes has been wrong before, if not, I'll get them at the one by the beach house. thanks for the heads up. on a side note, read alot of posts on the fest but didn't see a firm date, do you have that info?Thanks Kevin
So far, the offered dates for the Fest are the 1st or 2nd weekend in August.
Mike Smith and I might prefer the 3rd weekend but that's up to the Fest host, after he hears all the opinions. I plan to show up no matter what date is selected.
Hey Ralph,picked up 20 lbs, 1 lb boxes of SS 2 1/2" 8D ring shanks for 2.85 per pound, thanks. may not use them for this but couldn't resist a deal like that. might go back for 2" as well.PS where are you located? I am in NJ, I wonder if this is nationwide.
Edited 12/18/2007 5:48 pm ET by dockelly
That's a deal. Now I gotta go see the store manager and get him to match that price. (Fat chance).
I'm in Jacksonville, Florida
I'll fax you a copy of the receipt if you think it'll help. email me your fax # if you want it.
I picked up some boxes of the 2 1/2" SS nails and mentioned your price...
Got them for $2.85
The 6d (2") were marked down to $4.74
I bought some at that price but would be interested in knowing what they are in your store.
I have a good relationship with the folks at the Pro desk and they work the discount magic for me all the time.
just got back from the beach house, went to the lowes down there and the 8D were 3.44 per 1 lb box. Took out my wallet and checked my reciept, I paid 2.85 at the Lowes by my primary home. Go figure. I'm actually going to my local Lowes in a few minutes and I'll get back to you with a price.
Hey Ralph,Only saw the 5 lb boxes marked down, no yellow sticker under the 1 lb boxes. Anyway, the 5 lb was 12.77, usually 49.08.
If you are actually a doctor, do you really need to be spending much time thinking about the price of nails? :-)
Edited 12/21/2007 10:22 pm ET by Matt
Matt,I'm not going to get into this much, but what I get paid is about half of what I got 20 years ago, but I have twice as many patients. I'm not complaining, still doing OK, but the myth is letters after your name and your rich, not so. My folks are Irish immigrants, I'm one of 7 kids, I was brought up not to waste money. Everyone likes a good deal. Merry Christmas!:)PS I recently spent 1600.00 on simpson stainless steel joist hangers, tie downs, etc when 300.00 Zmax would have been BI passed. Safety over savings always comes first.
Edited 12/21/2007 10:33 pm ET by dockelly
Just out of curiosity, if the first siding nails lasted 120 years (or whatever it was you said) and they undoubtedly weren't even galvanized (did they have any kind of "treated" nails back then?) why are stainless steel nails needed now, other than some of the guys at BT said they are the best? Granted when I made my first comment about this I had missed the part about being close to the ocean, but just for grins put "fine homebuilding" through the spell checker here at BT.
What professional builders have to deliver is some degree of value.... Just seeking out and using the most expensive materials and methods that are available only works in a microscopic niche market - that and it's good for novices who just don't know what will produce a more than acceptable outcome without going overboard - "overbuilding".
I still maintain that a good quality of HD galvanized nails would be very adequate.
I don't think the average, probably off shore, galvanized nails are what they were in years gone by. Galvanized nails are going up in price and stainless are going down, so it's not quite the extravagance it once was. I use bostich galvatech iii gun siding nails on Hardi though. I have seen a lot of HDG nails badly rusted in Masonite siding, but that stuff is usually just face nailed wet rotted fluff.
Actually, I've noticed other nails going down in price too. Recently at my regular BS out in front of the sales counter they had a pallet of #8 gun nails marked for $19 a box - full sized box - I guess 5k nails!!! I could hardly believe it. My BS gives me good prices on lumber, but generally I think they carry hardware type stuff more just for the convience of the customer but charge heaftily it. I doubt they do much of a volume in that kind of thing. Maybe it was just some kind of sale where they were trying to clear out some inventory...
I get your logic but still believe the extra cost is not that much given the value and peace of mind. I had to remove the porch prior to lifting the house, it was only 20 years old. Decking was face nailed and the nails were so rusted they snapped instead of coming out. Don't know what they were originally but know they didn't last.
It makes perfect sense to shop for the best nail at the best price, especially when you are responsible for the bottom line.
When you buy and use as many nails, screws, etc., as builders do then it's a substantial cost of doing business that affects the price you charge customers and the profit you take home at the end of the day.
Even a homeowner can make better use of the savings if he spends $200 for fasteners instead of $600-$1,000.
It's practically a given that when a number of boxes of nails are available on a job site there is a shoot till empty mindset. I have seen sites where you could put together another whole house with the discarded sticks and partial coils laying on the ground.
>> I had to remove the porch prior to lifting the house, it was only 20 years old. Decking was face nailed and the nails were so rusted they snapped instead of coming out. Don't know what they were originally but know they didn't last. <<
I'm assuming it was PT lumber? Most people didn't know it but there was the same corrosion problem with the old PT lumber, just not as bad as the new stuff. I bet those old decking boards were nailed with electroplated galvanized nails.
I don't think it was PT lumber. The framing underneath was PT, but it looks like decking was regular pine, #2, 1x4. I had a table and chairs, outdoor stuff, which I had for years at primary house. Moved it down there and it's rusting away even with being covered.
A simple rule of thumb is that when attaching a thinner board or material to a thicker one, such as sheathing to framing, you want the nail to be roughly at least 3 times as long as the thickness of material you are attaching. So, if you are attaching 1/2" material you want 1.5" (min) nails. To attach 3/4" material to framing, you want 2.25" (min) nails).
You said "Wood is 1" thick". I don't know if that is the combination of the board and batten or what, but it sounds like #10 (3") may be in order. Personally, I think a good grade of hot dipped siding nails (which tend to be thinner and have smaller heads than commons) would be what you need. Stainless would be overkill.
for example: http://www.mazenails.com/catalog/sidingnails.php
I think stainless is a great idea when you're a block away from an ocean.
Yea - I forgot about that part...
board is 1" thick, with the batten being anotjer 1". I igured the batten could attach to the board. Boards have a rabbit cut alon the edge so they slip together. Reason for SS was proximity to ocean, as pointed out by Mark.
Doc, go to the Western Red Cedar Lumber Association website and read up on the correct siding nailing for board and batten. No nails thru both board and batten. Doesn't matter if your siding is not cedar, same nailing would apply. We are installing 3/4 x 9-1/4 boards and 3/4 x 2-1/2 battens right now... using 2-1/2 x .091 ring shank siding gun nails for the boards, and 16d HDG hand drives for the battens.
Main problem I see is that you probably do not have horizontal blocking for your siding. We have 2x3 installed horizontally at 24" OC thru the whole house. I guess in your case I would just copy the existing nailing, which appparently worked OK. With the 1/2" sheathing that's standard now I would not just nail siding into the sheathing, although I know a lot of guys would. Maybe you have solid wood sheathing... or none?
pretty sure I have the blocking, ask me how I know. OK, i busted up some of the bead board trying to get a 16' floor joist in. The one we did just before went in with some coaxing, the second one not so good, forget to take 2" of length. Anywho, I now know for certain I have blown in insulation, not sure what it's made of, horizontal blocking, and I see the back of the boards, siding=sheathing, nothing else. Why hand drive the battens?
I guess I could get one of my framing guns to carefully flush-drive some big HDG spikes for the battens, but in reality I like the way that hand-driving them lets me set the batten to just the right tightness--it pulls down the edges of the boards just right. We are siding over 2-ply 30# felt so part of the drill is to get the whole thing tight on the wall, and the big spikes take care of that. It would work fine to use large gun nails and leave them proud so you can set them with a big blunt nailset (I have a bunch of 1/4" Dasco punches for this).
Good you have the blocking. You will probably find that there are places it is lacking, such as above and below windows, etc. In some places we are using a combination of trimhead screws and decks screws for boards and battens. Mostly 2fl and dormer sides where it looks identical from the ground.
do your boards have a rabbit edge, overlapping each other? Mine do, no way to nail the batten without hitting the boards. I've hand nailed alot even though I have the nailer, there's a feel you get back with hand nailing letting you know you've hit the framing that you don't get with nailer.
Our stuff is just boards, no T&G. We nail up the 1x10s with a 3/8" space between them, and then the batten nails go thru that same space, not hitting either board.
Doc,
Thats called a "shiplap" edge, IIRC, you should nail your battens with 2 nails at each nailing point, one on one edge and the other on the opposite edge. I assume you have fairly wide battens , at least 3", yes?, so you place the nails 3/4" from each edge, this means you are nailing through each batten into each "board" separately. You are not nailing through the center of the shiplap edges, this will mean each board is hit with 2 nails per, and each batten has only 2 nails per each fastening point, thus no splitting during seasonal movement. Clear as mud?
Geoff
P.S. nails should be 10d(or 12d) Hot dipped gal. BOX nails or SS , IF you can find SS box nails, no need for ring shank. Your right about hand nailing giving you a better "feel" when nailing, that would be my choice too. Check out Maze nails for the double hot dipped nails.
not sure what the batten width is, but think it's narrower. Could I get away with 1/2" in from the edge if they are narrower? Maybe drill a pilot hole to avoid splitting if that starts to be a problem.
Doc,
Pilot will work if needed, but what you are really trying to avoid is driving the batten nail through the overlapping tongues of the ship-lap joint, if you nail through that, you will definitly get splitting of the "boards" at that point. In other words the tongues of the ship-lap joint want to be able to move freely with seasons/moisture changes. The box nail will make it easier to nail close to the edge of the batten than a regular common nail and avoid splitting the batten.
Geoff
Got it, thanks.
When I can't avoid nailing a batten nail thru a board, I predrill thru both first with a 3/16" drill bit, then move the batten out of the way and drill thru the board with a 3/8" bit, so that the board will have room to move around the nail if it needs it.
Don't know if I want much movement around nail, as Piffen pointed out, my boards are probably structural given that it's balloon framed and there is no sheathing beneath boards. I have to check out the cedar web site as you suggested, get a better idea of what's best.PS went to Lowes today and got stainless steel 2 1/2" 8D ring shank nails 75% off, 2.85 per 1lb box. Ralphwicklund told me about this clearance, just passing it along.